-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 10647







Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960. Group





15 Messages

Digest #10647









1a

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Garth Groff" ggg9y





1b

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Benjamin Hom" benjaminfrank_hom





1c

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott





1d

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Garth Groff" ggg9y





1e

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott





1f

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott





1g

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Garth Groff" ggg9y





1h

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Tim O'Connor" cf5250





1i

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by riverman_vt





1j

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "Spen Kellogg" spenkellogg





1k

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish by "T.J. Stratton" michigancentralrr







2a

Re: D&H open tops by riverman_vt





2b

Re: D&H open tops by "Craig Zeni" sal3060







3

My Airbrush Cleaning Routine by lnbill







4

Branchline Freight Car Ends by "Nelson Moyer" ku0a












Messages



1a

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:41 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Garth Groff" ggg9y




Greg,

Some of us don't have a paint booth, and have to do our painting out on
the patio, or by sable. Yes, I tried propellant cans, and they didn't
work very well for me.

I do have an airbrush somewhere. Used just once.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

On 1/16/17 2:24 AM, tgregmrtn@aol.com [STMFC] wrote:

How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment?
In today's world why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic
airbrush?
Show of hands...
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
In a message dated 1/15/2017 3:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:

At yesterday's Great Train Show I talked with Joel Bragdon, the
weathering powder entrepreneur, about base and finish coatings for
use with chalks and powders.

He mentioned that Rust-Oleum announced a new coating last March
called "Dead Flat Clear" and that he likes the product. Here is a
photo link:

_http://tinyurl.com/jnou4lu_

I did a little searching and found that Home Depot and Lowe's both
carry it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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1b

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:22 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Benjamin Hom" benjaminfrank_hom




Greg Martin asked:
"How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment? In
today's world why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic
airbrush?


Show of hands..."

Actually, I do if the color is available. I hate cleaning the airbrush.

Ben Hom










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1c

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:30 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott




So Garth,

You've piqued my interest...how do you paint your freight cars?

Scott Haycock

----- Original Message -----

Some of us don't have a paint booth, and have to do our painting out on the patio, or by sable. Yes, I tried propellant cans, and they didn't work very well for me.

I do have an airbrush somewhere. Used just once.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff










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1d

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:48 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Garth Groff" ggg9y




Scott,

Usually with spray cans on the patio. Now that Floquil sprays have
disappeared, I'm stuck with various red oxide primers. I have a huge
collection of cans of every brand I could find, each backed by a 3X5"
styrene sample card kept in a file box. I make notes on these cards
about what cars I've painted with them, and also how the paint
performed. The paint is usually not as fine as Floquil, and I'm not
happy. Due to ventilation and my sweetheart's asthma issues, I will
never have an indoor paint booth.

Does this get me kicked off STMFC for heresy?

Yours Aye,

Garth

On 1/16/17 5:30 AM, 'Scott H. Haycock ' shhaycock@comcast.net [STMFC] wrote:

So Garth,

You've piqued my interest...how do you paint your freight cars?

Scott Haycock

----------------------------------------------------------



Some of us don't have a paint booth, and have to do our painting out
on the patio, or by sable. Yes, I tried propellant cans, and they
didn't work very well for me.

I do have an airbrush somewhere. Used just once.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

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1e

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:57 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott






ms of Use
Garth,

Once I read my last post, I can see where its conciseness might appear confrontational. That was not my intention. I really am interested in your techniques. I suspect a lot of modelers either can't afford, or are intimidated by air brushes and paint booths, yet know that brush painting is near impossible to do well. That leaves spray cans.

Any insights you may have would be educational, to say the least!

Scott Haycock
.










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1f

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:17 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Scott H. Haycock" haycockscott




Garth,

I have a spray booth, but don't want to knock a hole in a wall, etc. So I take it outside to use it. This sounds odd- Why don't I just spray in the open?

The booths fan removes over spray, and protects the model from stray drafts. I live in New Mexico, and even in winter, we'll get days where I can do this outdoors.

As to using spray cans, Google "Replacement spray can nozzles" You can get better nozzles that will produce a finer mist.

Scott Haycock

----- Original Message -----

Scott,

Usually with spray cans on the patio. Now that Floquil sprays have disappeared, I'm stuck with various red oxide primers. I have a huge collection of cans of every brand I could find, each backed by a 3X5" styrene sample card kept in a file box. I make notes on these cards about what cars I've painted with them, and also how the paint performed. The paint is usually not as fine as Floquil, and I'm not happy. Due to ventilation and my sweetheart's asthma issues, I will never have an indoor paint booth.

Does this get me kicked off STMFC for heresy?
Yours Aye,

Garth










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1g

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:27 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Garth Groff" ggg9y




Scott,

No, I didn't think you were confrontational. But there's really not much
to say. I just test the spray first to make sure it is shooting right
before aiming it at a model. Then several light coats are blown with the
can aimed just before the model, ending beyond the model on the other
side. I usually let each coat dry a bit before going at the model again.
Standard stuff. Sometimes it works well, other times not so good. Given
the infamous clogging problems with Floquil cans, most of the primers
shoot much better. Of course, weather is a factor. I can't do models
when the temperature is below 55 degrees, and it's not easy when the
wind is blowing.

I also do a lot of brush work on structures and figures with craft store
acrylic paints, including Plaid, Anita's, Americana and Folk Art brands.
These are also good for wash-weathering on freight cars, or just dabbing
with a 1/4" brush on underframes. Right now I'm using these acrylics and
a 0000 brush on some O-scale figures for a future English narrow gauge
layout. Next step, buttons, lips and eyeballs.

I use a matte art acrylic spray as a sealer. Testors Dullcote or Pactra
Flat were best, I can't find them anymore. Plaid Clear Acrylic Sealer
from the art store works fairly well, except in high humidity when it
sometimes dries milky. This explains my interest in the new Rustoleum
product.

Yours Aye,

Garth

On 1/16/17 5:57 AM, 'Scott H. Haycock ' shhaycock@comcast.net [STMFC] wrote:

ms of Use <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/>;
Garth,

Once I read my last post, I can see where its conciseness might appear
confrontational. That was not my intention. I really am interested in
your techniques. I suspect a lot of modelers either can't afford, or
are intimidated by air brushes and paint booths, yet know that brush
painting is near impossible to do well. That leaves spray cans.

Any insights you may have would be educational, to say the least!

Scott Haycock
.

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1h

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:45 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Tim O'Connor" cf5250





Rolling stock, never.

But I use them for other items. For example I like to spray laser cut wood (out
of box, when it is still in a sheet) with MinWax clear coat (wood sealant). I guess
if I ever build an Ambroid model, it will get the same treatment. :-)

And I'll probably use them for large structures like truss bridges.

Tim O'Connor

How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment? In today's world
why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic airbrush?

Show of hands...

Greg Martin

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1i

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:34 am (PST) . Posted by:

riverman_vt




Hi Greg,

Paasche airbrush user since 1967.....50 years.....and cannot understand anyone using a spray can
to paint with though I admit to it for Testors Dullcote on occasion.


Cordially, Don Valentine









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1j

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:39 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Spen Kellogg" spenkellogg




On 1/16/2017 4:45 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] wrote:

Rolling stock, never.

But I use them for other items. For example I like to spray laser cut
wood (out
of box, when it is still in a sheet) with MinWax clear coat (wood
sealant). I guess
if I ever build an Ambroid model, it will get the same treatment. :-)

Tim,

I had heard that one should avoid Minwax products because they had wax
in them. Have you noticed this, or does the clear coat not have any wax
in it?

Spen Kellogg









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1k

Re: Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish





Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:33 am (PST) . Posted by:

"T.J. Stratton" michigancentralrr




I'm a Badger airbrush fan. I use their line of paints as well as Tru Color and Scalecoat II. I have a paint booth that vents to the outdoors thru a dryer vent in the block windows. While a rattle can sounds slick, I feel that the paint flow could be way be too heavy for painting of H.O. size rolling stock. I have painted a number of buildings with rattle cans with fine results.

Regarding economic airbrush set ups, several years ago I purchased a small compressor and airbrush as a set from Harbor Freight, for about $75 as I recall. That kept me painting when recalled to active duty during Operation Iraqi Freedom. I only used Badger paint thru that rig but still, I have no complaints about the results.

TJ Stratton Maumee, OH. "Modeling the 1950's branch lines of the Michigan Central Railroad in southern Michigan" Mailto:michigancentralrr@hotmail.com

________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of tgregmrtn@aol.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 2:24 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rust-Oleum Dead Flat Clear Finish

How many guys here use spray cans to paint their HO Scale equipment? In today's world why wouldn't you have acquired even the most economic airbrush?

Show of hands...

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 1/15/2017 3:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:

At yesterday's Great Train Show I talked with Joel Bragdon, the weathering powder entrepreneur, about base and finish coatings for use with chalks and powders.

He mentioned that Rust-Oleum announced a new coating last March called "Dead Flat Clear" and that he likes the product. Here is a photo link:

http://tinyurl.com/jnou4lu

I did a little searching and found that Home Depot and Lowe's both carry it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA










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2a

Re: D&H open tops





Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:25 am (PST) . Posted by:

riverman_vt







---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <williamdale75@...> wrote :

I forgot to add this earlier for those who may be interested. The D&H also had their fleet of L.C.L air activated cement canister gondolas, originally 15950-15969, and then added 15900-15914. These appeared in the early 1940's and were red. To the best of my knowledge these never wore black. I have a photo of 15911, Oneonta 8-64 still wearing it's red paint. Now, Shortline Products makes a set of decals for the air cement canisters covering the D&H, NYC, DL&W, and LV.

Bill




Thank you Bill. This is all good information to have. I have three of Allan Seebachs (sp?) O&W Car
Shops brass D&H hoppers in wo configurations and am pleased to have them though I usually prefer
injection molded or resin for the freight car fleet. But when something like those hoppers comes along
and is the only game in town short of scratchbuilding there is room for and exception or two. A fair
amount of coal came into Vermont from the D&H branch into Rutland and a small amount over the "Slate
Picker" branch that crisscrossed the VT-NY border. But it also came in via the D&H connections with
both the Rutland and the Boston & Maine so the D&H hoppers could be seen almost anywhere in the
state even if not as common hoppers of the B&O, which seem to be the most frequently seen in our era
judging from thousands of photos seen over the years. Then, too, the Rutland used to transfer coal from
off line hoppers to its own for delivery simply to cut down per diem charges. Other roads ay have done
this too but it seemed to be a standard practice for years on the Rutland.


Can you also suggest a source of black D&H decals for the gray covered hoppers used for cement?
I hated taking cement samples from those cars in the summer of 1967 because when loaded the top of
the load was a good 3 - 4 ft. below the open hatch and we had no scoop to reach it with for sampling.
Thus one had to climb down on top of it. Not fun. Wait until the end of the work day and get a shower
and a change of clothes as quickly as one could. Quite a bit of cement came into Vermont in those
cars before the "Ft. Edward Express" took over the buik of cement delivery into Vermont. Now it all
comes in air dump trailers from three points in Quebec.


Cordially, Don Valentine














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2b

Re: D&H open tops





Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:36 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Craig Zeni" sal3060





On Jan 16, 2017, at 3:47 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

1c. Re: D&H open tops
Posted by: williamdale75@yahoo.com williamdale75
Date: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:14 pm ((PST))

Group,

I wanted to add to this topic in regards to paint and decals available. In my collection of photos, the D&H had purchased a lot of composite, not Seley, 3-bay hoppers, series 4401-4611. First, no. 4549 appears as built 9-36 no circular herald, and is all black. Although a B&W image the contrast between the coupler and the car body is significant. Second, no. 4541 with last shop date of 1-48, is in a "Anthracite" herald and is also black going along with what has been mentioned earlier. The photo is color and the car has some hard years on it. For anyone interested there were still 209 of these in January of '53. Now for decals, in HO, are as mentioned earlier the Tichy offerings, Westerfield D3309 for the USRA single sheath box cars, C-D-S 591 was for the USRA 2-bay hoppers converted to covered hoppers in the red scheme, nos. 3201-3220. All were in service as of January '53 in grey though. I don't know when they were changed li ke the USRA single sheath box cars also in cement service, and F&C has the early gondola sets. Lastly, years back the O&W car shop imported brass Seley hoppers cars and had a very nice decal set to finish them off. I have two sets packed away, but they are still listed as set #1004 on the Old and Weary Car Shop website.

The O&WCS web site is almost invariably very out of date; I bought his last pair of Genesis F3s several years ago but they're still listed on the web site. Best to call and see what Al has on the shelf. As an O&W modeler I have some of those Seley cars on the shelf along with some of the little brass O&W drop bottom coal gons and his lovely O&W cabooses.

I have a thing for the D&H's big Consolidations...but the O&W's rag tag fleet of second hand hoppers bought in various LOTS just makes it entertaining to model. That, along with the high percentage of bridge traffic on the lower part of the route makes it easy to scratch the freight car itch. After all, when the road never owned a 40' steel or wood box car...scratch away :)

Craig Zeni
Cary NC










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3

My Airbrush Cleaning Routine





Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:35 am (PST) . Posted by:

lnbill




As we have witnessed, painting our models is a very personal choice. With the advice of a plastic modeling magazine editor about 56 years ago, I purchased a Binks "Wren" airbrush and a small compressor with no way to control the PSI or know what it was. However the combo worked well with the paint of the day, in 1964 probably Patra or Testors, but definitely solvent based. I opened my bedroom window and sprayed into a cardboard box. I remember even then struggling to keep the airbrush clean. Some of my problems were from a lack of discipline to clean completely after each paint session.


In 1992 when I began modeling freight cars I decided to go "water based Acrylics" only because they are not toxic, secondarily because of ease of cleanup, but by then I had learned to clean as I go. I have been pretty disciplined with this. BTW I Paint w/Badger's Modelflex paint


The greatest assist in keeping my airbrushes clean is 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. My routine after painting is to initially flush with Distilled water, including back-flushing, and then spraying/flushing w/the Isopropyl. Then I pull the needle out and wipe it w/a paper towel wetted with Isopropyl to remove any paint buildup. That is all the "disassembly" I routinely do. Once the needle is back in place, I spray more Isopropyl and finish with more water. My cleaning station is a brown paper bag with crumpled paper to catch the water and Isopropyl.


Bill Welch










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4

Branchline Freight Car Ends





Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:29 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Nelson Moyer" ku0a




I've searched unsuccessfully for Branchline 10002, R+3/4 improved early Dreadnaught boxcar ends. Is there a source of Branchline ends and doors?

Nelson Moyer









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Keep in mind that air hoses are required to be mounted at a 30 degrees
angle, tipped toward the coupler.

Jack Burgess

On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:18 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Are those using rattle cans to paint their fine models the same ones that spend big bucks on the tools needed to build them? If so - Weird!

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

I know that some firm makes these in brass.  I have misplaced that bit of information.
Who makes them?
Schuyler