Date   

Re: Tank Car Deliveries To Gas Stations?

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Would they drop off partial car fulls?  Oil would come in 55 gallon drums by box cars?


Al Kresse

On January 26, 2017 at 7:48 PM "Howard R Garner cascaderail@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

> Was there a time when some gas stations received deliveries directly by tank car?

Most definitely
And into the 50's as well.
A station in Cannon Falls, Minn had a spur off the CGW.
This was near the curve just north and west of town where the east/west
line curved south to enter town. This area has been redeveloped since.

Howard Garner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


 


Re: Tank Car Deliveries To Gas Stations?

earlyrail
 

Was there a time when some gas stations received deliveries directly by tank car?

Most definitely
And into the 50's as well.
A station in Cannon Falls, Minn had a spur off the CGW.
This was near the curve just north and west of town where the east/west line curved south to enter town. This area has been redeveloped since.

Howard Garner


Re: Tank Car Deliveries To Gas Stations?

riverman_vt@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

Was there a time when some gas stations received deliveries directly by tank car?

 

I have come across some possible photographic evidence of this practice and several narrative accounts attesting to this.

 

Photos

 

Dome Oil Company station, circa 1920.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/data/desertdrover/2016418154022_Dome%20Gas.jpg

 



    Gee, Bob, Can't comment on stations receiving gasoline by rail but did notice the 23 cents per gallon price. One could still by gas for 23 to 24 cents per gallon in the mid-1950's, thirty years after your photo was taken, at several stations in Everett, Mass. not far from the docks on the Mystic River where it was unloaded. Even up the the Arab oil embargo in 1973 I don't recall paying more than 35 cents per gallon in that area. Time have certainly changed! Now one can't get it for anything close to that even when GATX Tank Train cars are used!


My best, Don Valentine


Re: PRR X25 and Other Questions

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Ben. It’s amazing that the car even has the original door as well as KD brakes. This one is in as close to original condition as you’ll ever find for a car built between 1914 and 1918.

Enjoy the warmth down there in FL. I’m originally from Jacksonville, but I haven’t lived in FL since 1975.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:00 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR X25 and Other Questions


Nelson Moyer asked:
"Westerfield #6151 is the PRR X25 steel boxcar. I found a builder’s photo of the original Union Line build, but my kit is the modern rebuild with AB brakes and Youngstown door. Was the vertical brake staff retained, or were power hand brakes applied when AB brakes replaced KD brakes? If so, which one? I can’t find a photo of the B end of a post-war car. The B end photos on the instructions are models with the vertical brake staff and Carmer uncoupling levers, and they have the rerouted retainer valve pipe (under the brake staff and through the end sill to the immediate left of the coupler box. Also, the details of the towing eyes and jacking pads are not very clear. A B end photo of the modernized car would be immensely helpful."

PRR had a habit of retaining the original handbrakes with the AB brake changeover. However, here's a photo of a Class X25 boxcar that was sold to FC Chihuahua and Pacifico after retirement from the Pennsy:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2675289

Note that the car still has KD brakes! Also, not a B end photo, but this should help you with the jacking pads.

I'm down in Florida and away from the photo collection - I'll check to see what I've got for Class X25.


Ben Hom


Tank Car deliveries to service stations

Paul Catapano
 

 
I just don't think that it is reasonable to assume that this ever happened much.
I 'm fairly sure that bulk deliveries went to wholesalers and trucks then delivered 
to the individual service stations.
It is reasonable to model more than one wholesaler on a spur.
Depending the size of your "town" you might see wholesale outlets from several
petroleum companies.

Paul Catapano



Re: PRR X25 and Other Questions

Benjamin Hom
 

Nelson Moyer asked:
"Westerfield #6151 is the PRR X25 steel boxcar. I found a builder’s photo of the original Union Line build, but my kit is the modern rebuild with AB brakes and Youngstown door. Was the vertical brake staff retained, or were power hand brakes applied when AB brakes replaced KD brakes? If so, which one? I can’t find a photo of the B end of a post-war car. The B end photos on the instructions are models with the vertical brake staff and Carmer uncoupling levers, and they have the rerouted retainer valve pipe (under the brake staff and through the end sill to the immediate left of the coupler box. Also, the details of the towing eyes and jacking pads are not very clear. A B end photo of the modernized car would be immensely helpful."

PRR had a habit of retaining the original handbrakes with the AB brake changeover.  However, here's a photo of a Class X25 boxcar that was sold to FC Chihuahua and Pacifico after retirement from the Pennsy:

Note that the car still has KD brakes!  Also, not a B end photo, but this should help you with the jacking pads. 

I'm down in Florida and away from the photo collection - I'll check to see what I've got for Class X25.


Ben Hom


Re: Southern Car & Foundry

Dave Nelson
 

Not intending to belabor the point but based on private e-mails I see it
should be pointed out that yes, the home page looks fine. The problem is
what you see when you click on any of HO Scale Rolling Stock, O Gauge
Rolling Stock, or Featured Models images and intended page displays. The
text under the photos is unreadable and most of the rest is rather hard to
make out. Curiously, when you click on the image for Gallery the resulting
page looks fine.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:52 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Southern Car & Foundry

Postscript:
The background to the lettering is RGB 15/23/25, a very dark charcoal that
looks almost black.
The letters are RGB 41/51/52, a rather dark gray.

When you take each of those expressed as a percentage of pure white you get:
Background: 5.5% / 9% 0 9.8%
Letters: 16% / 20% / 20.36%

You could double the values for the lettering and at 2X lighter they'd still
be unpleasantly too dark to read. They need to be at least 3X lighter, if
not a bit more.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nelson [mailto:lake_muskoka@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:17 AM
To: 'STMFC@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Southern Car & Foundry

I dunno... I use Firefox, updated very frequently by Mozilla, and the
lettering is almost completely lost in the background color. Several times
I needed to use my mouse to highlight the words so they could be seen and
read.

I calibrate my monitor every 4-6 weeks (I do a fair amount of work creating
digital images) so I know I'm seeing a presentation whose source is off.

I suspect the problem was whomever created the web pages was working on a
display that was much brighter than it should be, probably with a higher
degree of contrast as well.

IOW, viewed properly it's almost unreadable.



------------------------------------
Posted by: "Dave Nelson" <lake_muskoka@att.net>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: PRR X25 and Other Questions

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, I bookmarked the PRR site you sent.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR X25 and Other Questions



PRR G29 blt 1941
Two different floors - wood and 312 cars had nailable steel floors
numbers and trucks (PRR class and name)
357854 - 358653 2E-F17 National Malleable B-1
358654 - 359153 2E-F18 Young
359154 - 359553 2E-F20 Elsey
359554 - 359853 2E-F19 Barrett-Whitehead

Can't help with the brakes. All of this and similar info about all PRR cars is available at http://prr.railfan.net/

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer npmoyer@hotmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 4:12 pm
Subject: [STMFC] PRR X25 and Other Questions

I’ve been researching prototype data for my kit stash of Westerfield and F&C cars in preparation for building. I was successful in obtaining most of the information I need for the G22, G28, and G29 gondolas, courtesy of some group members, and now I’m researching the last two Westerfield cars and trying to fill in the remaining gaps on an F&C car.

Westerfield #6151 is the PRR X25 steel boxcar. I found a builder’s photo of the original Union Line build, but my kit is the modern rebuild with AB brakes and Youngstown door. Was the vertical brake staff retained, or were power hand brakes applied when AB brakes replaced KD brakes? If so, which one? I can’t find a photo of the B end of a post-war car. The B end photos on the instructions are models with the vertical brake staff and Carmer uncoupling levers, and they have the rerouted retainer valve pipe (under the brake staff and through the end sill to the immediate left of the coupler box. Also, the details of the towing eyes and jacking pads are not very clear. A B end photo of the modernized car would be immensely helpful.

Westerfield #1901 is a single sheathed MP automobile car in the 81000-81249 series. These cars remained on the ORER until the middle to late 1950s, so they would have to have been modernized with AB brakes, etc. Were they given power hand brakes when they got AB brakes, or did they retain the vertical brake staff? What trucks were used in the transition era? How were these cars lettered in the post-war period (the original paint scheme was before the buzz saw herald came into use)? Side and B end view photos would be very helpful.

The F&C PRR G29 46 ft. steel gondola kit instructions provide no prototype data. None. When were these car built? What were the series numbers? Which power hand brakes were used (looks like maybe Equipco)? What trucks were used (looks like maybe National B-1)?

Thanks in advance for any and all information and photographs.

Nelson Moyer


Re: PRR X25 and Other Questions

SUVCWORR@...
 

PRR G29  blt 1941
Two different floors -  wood and 312 cars had nailable steel floors
numbers and trucks (PRR class and name)
357854 - 358653 2E-F17 National Malleable B-1
358654 - 359153 2E-F18 Young
359154 - 359553 2E-F20 Elsey
359554 - 359853 2E-F19 Barrett-Whitehead

Can't help with the brakes.  All of this and similar info about all PRR cars is available at http://prr.railfan.net/

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer npmoyer@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 4:12 pm
Subject: [STMFC] PRR X25 and Other Questions



I’ve been researching prototype data for my kit stash of Westerfield and F&C cars in preparation for building. I was successful in obtaining most of the information I need for the G22, G28, and G29 gondolas, courtesy of some group members, and now I’m researching the last two Westerfield cars and trying to fill in the remaining gaps on an F&C car.
 
Westerfield #6151 is the PRR X25 steel boxcar. I found a builder’s photo of the original Union Line build, but my kit is the modern rebuild with AB brakes and Youngstown door. Was the vertical brake staff retained, or were power hand brakes applied when AB brakes replaced KD brakes? If so, which one? I can’t find a photo of the B end of a post-war car. The B end photos on the instructions are models with the vertical brake staff and Carmer uncoupling levers, and they have the rerouted retainer valve pipe (under the brake staff and through the end sill to the immediate left of the coupler box. Also, the details of the towing eyes and jacking pads are not very clear. A B end photo of the modernized car would be immensely helpful.
 
Westerfield #1901 is a single sheathed MP automobile car in the 81000-81249 series. These cars remained on the ORER until the middle to late 1950s, so they would have to have been modernized with AB brakes, etc. Were they given power hand brakes when they got AB brakes, or did they retain the vertical brake staff? What trucks were used in the transition era? How were these cars lettered in the post-war period (the original paint scheme was before the buzz saw herald came into use)? Side and B end view photos would be very helpful.
 
The F&C PRR G29 46 ft. steel gondola kit instructions provide no prototype data. None. When were these car built? What were the series numbers? Which power hand brakes were used (looks like maybe Equipco)? What trucks were used (looks like maybe National B-1)?
 
Thanks in advance for any and all information and photographs.
 
Nelson Moyer
 
 
 
 



PRR X25 and Other Questions

Nelson Moyer
 

I’ve been researching prototype data for my kit stash of Westerfield and F&C cars in preparation for building. I was successful in obtaining most of the information I need for the G22, G28, and G29 gondolas, courtesy of some group members, and now I’m researching the last two Westerfield cars and trying to fill in the remaining gaps on an F&C car.

 

Westerfield #6151 is the PRR X25 steel boxcar. I found a builder’s photo of the original Union Line build, but my kit is the modern rebuild with AB brakes and Youngstown door. Was the vertical brake staff retained, or were power hand brakes applied when AB brakes replaced KD brakes? If so, which one? I can’t find a photo of the B end of a post-war car. The B end photos on the instructions are models with the vertical brake staff and Carmer uncoupling levers, and they have the rerouted retainer valve pipe (under the brake staff and through the end sill to the immediate left of the coupler box. Also, the details of the towing eyes and jacking pads are not very clear. A B end photo of the modernized car would be immensely helpful.

 

Westerfield #1901 is a single sheathed MP automobile car in the 81000-81249 series. These cars remained on the ORER until the middle to late 1950s, so they would have to have been modernized with AB brakes, etc. Were they given power hand brakes when they got AB brakes, or did they retain the vertical brake staff? What trucks were used in the transition era? How were these cars lettered in the post-war period (the original paint scheme was before the buzz saw herald came into use)? Side and B end view photos would be very helpful.

 

The F&C PRR G29 46 ft. steel gondola kit instructions provide no prototype data. None. When were these car built? What were the series numbers? Which power hand brakes were used (looks like maybe Equipco)? What trucks were used (looks like maybe National B-1)?

 

Thanks in advance for any and all information and photographs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

 


Re: Single sheathed UP B-50-B?

Eric Lombard
 


Randy, Ted's idea about SP B-50-13 is an interesting avenue of inquiry. You can find information, data, and many photos of both B-50-8 and B-50-13 in 
AUTHOR YEAR TITLE
Thompson, A. W. 2006 Southern Pacific Freight Cars, Volume 4: Box Cars

Eric
Homewood, IL


Re: Southern Car & Foundry

Dave Nelson
 

Postscript:
The background to the lettering is RGB 15/23/25, a very dark charcoal that
looks almost black.
The letters are RGB 41/51/52, a rather dark gray.

When you take each of those expressed as a percentage of pure white you get:
Background: 5.5% / 9% 0 9.8%
Letters: 16% / 20% / 20.36%

You could double the values for the lettering and at 2X lighter they'd still
be unpleasantly too dark to read. They need to be at least 3X lighter, if
not a bit more.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nelson [mailto:lake_muskoka@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:17 AM
To: 'STMFC@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Southern Car & Foundry

I dunno... I use Firefox, updated very frequently by Mozilla, and the
lettering is almost completely lost in the background color. Several times
I needed to use my mouse to highlight the words so they could be seen and
read.

I calibrate my monitor every 4-6 weeks (I do a fair amount of work creating
digital images) so I know I'm seeing a presentation whose source is off.

I suspect the problem was whomever created the web pages was working on a
display that was much brighter than it should be, probably with a higher
degree of contrast as well.

IOW, viewed properly it's almost unreadable.


Re: Southern Car & Foundry

Dave Nelson
 

I dunno... I use Firefox, updated very frequently by Mozilla, and the
lettering is almost completely lost in the background color. Several times
I needed to use my mouse to highlight the words so they could be seen and
read.

I calibrate my monitor every 4-6 weeks (I do a fair amount of work creating
digital images) so I know I'm seeing a presentation whose source is off.

I suspect the problem was whomever created the web pages was working on a
display that was much brighter than it should be, probably with a higher
degree of contrast as well.

IOW, viewed properly it's almost unreadable.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:28 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Southern Car & Foundry

The site is not well coded, I think. For me, the site is fine. When you
click on a photo it is enlarged and the rest of the site is darkened. If you
close that photo, the rest of the site returns to normal brightness and
function. My guess is you have an older or unusual browser that the site's
code does not render well. I got it to work on the latest Version of IE and
Chrome on my desktop and Safari on my iPad.

Dave


Re: Single sheathed UP B-50-B?

Tony Thompson
 

Eric Lombard wrote:

 
UP classes B-50-7, -8, -9, -10 are a mystery and if anyone has information about them would be grateful to be enlightened.

      There was a drawing for B-50-7, which was a B-50-6 superstructure on a Bettendorf under frame, as had been used on classes B-50-1 thru B-50-4. The class was not built, nor was there (AFAIK) even a sample car built.
      I believe only SP purchased B-50-8 cars, as UP at the time was not interested in single-sheathed cars. The same may well be true for B-50-10. I am also unaware of box cars numbered in the 51,000 group unless they were T&NO. Neither SP nor UP had boxes with those numbers AFAIK.
      For the chip cars, my Volume 3 on auto cars of the SP has a chapter on both the 40-ft. and 50-ft. cars converted for chips.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Tank Car Deliveries To Gas Stations?

tjcataldo
 

I see Bob  a 26 or 27 ford dates the photo 

  Tom

On Thursday, January 26, 2017, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Was there a time when some gas stations received deliveries directly by tank car?

 

I have come across some possible photographic evidence of this practice and several narrative accounts attesting to this.

 

Photos

 

Dome Oil Company station, circa 1920.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/data/desertdrover/2016418154022_Dome%20Gas.jpg

 

Caption: This image of a gasoline station in Detroit, Michigan shows the result of only one of many postwar strikes that affected America as it returned to a peacetime economy. Yank-Wacon truck drivers on strike at the time stopped the deliveries to most filling stations in the area. Motorists line up at a no-name station on September 24, 1945 while waiting to get fuel at one of the few facilities open that received its supplies from a different source, possibly the railroad tanker on the far-left.

http://theoldmotor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/det-1080x650.jpg

 

Narratives

 

A 1984 letter from Bill Garner describes some of the industries that were on the Santa Fe's First District in San Bernardino, CA. (Bill was a Santa Fe signal maintainer helper and freight office clerk. He first hired on in 1924. Bill also helped edit "Wheel Clicks", a contemporary account of railroad happenings in the 1930s-1950s published by the Pacific Railroad Society.)

 

According to the letter, a Union Ice Company spur in San Bernardino extended to a Standard Oil gas station and the last spot on the spur was used for gasoline deliveries "by UTLX tank cars" to the gas station.

 

Another person stated, "When I was a kid in Detroit there was a string of cheap gas station next to the railroad tracks. This was in Detroit, the motor city. It was on West Fort Street or Jefferson Avenue. I found the sidings on a map one time which had rail lines on it...

 

There must have been six or eight stations in a row which had tank cars on sidings behind the stations plugged into the ground."

 

Another person stated, "In Brooklyn, NY, there was the same kind of sidings on the east side adjacent to Manhattan. Real cheap gas and bottled oil. The track was owned by the Standard Oil Company."

 

Comments?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 



--
Thomas  j Cataldo


Tank Car Deliveries To Gas Stations?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Was there a time when some gas stations received deliveries directly by tank car?

 

I have come across some possible photographic evidence of this practice and several narrative accounts attesting to this.

 

Photos

 

Dome Oil Company station, circa 1920.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/data/desertdrover/2016418154022_Dome%20Gas.jpg

 

Caption: This image of a gasoline station in Detroit, Michigan shows the result of only one of many postwar strikes that affected America as it returned to a peacetime economy. Yank-Wacon truck drivers on strike at the time stopped the deliveries to most filling stations in the area. Motorists line up at a no-name station on September 24, 1945 while waiting to get fuel at one of the few facilities open that received its supplies from a different source, possibly the railroad tanker on the far-left.

http://theoldmotor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/det-1080x650.jpg

 

Narratives

 

A 1984 letter from Bill Garner describes some of the industries that were on the Santa Fe's First District in San Bernardino, CA. (Bill was a Santa Fe signal maintainer helper and freight office clerk. He first hired on in 1924. Bill also helped edit "Wheel Clicks", a contemporary account of railroad happenings in the 1930s-1950s published by the Pacific Railroad Society.)

 

According to the letter, a Union Ice Company spur in San Bernardino extended to a Standard Oil gas station and the last spot on the spur was used for gasoline deliveries "by UTLX tank cars" to the gas station.

 

Another person stated, "When I was a kid in Detroit there was a string of cheap gas station next to the railroad tracks. This was in Detroit, the motor city. It was on West Fort Street or Jefferson Avenue. I found the sidings on a map one time which had rail lines on it...

 

There must have been six or eight stations in a row which had tank cars on sidings behind the stations plugged into the ground."

 

Another person stated, "In Brooklyn, NY, there was the same kind of sidings on the east side adjacent to Manhattan. Real cheap gas and bottled oil. The track was owned by the Standard Oil Company."

 

Comments?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Re: Fixing Plastic Rivets on Resin Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

George

Future does adhere very well but it's not an adhesive - it does not literally
melt polystyrene as other adhesives (besides CA) do. But acrylic is tough so I
can understand that it holds up to mild grit. Also I suspect it would work just
as well on clean resin (free of any mold release) and especially well if the
resin has been grit prepped.

Tim

Nelson,
I have been experimenting using Future (Pledge) as a method to attach resin rivets to styrene on a new project. I have also tried the Future as a glue for thin styrene (.005) in some situations. Seems to be working well so far in my tests. Not sure if it would work on Styrene Rivets to attach to resin. I keep the Future in a small bottle and apply with a paint brush. I put a small puddle of Future down and place the rivet in it. When dry i apply a top coat.
George Toman


Re: Single sheathed UP B-50-B?

Ted Culotta
 

Randy,

I think what you might have is a Southern Pacific B-50-8, built in 1913 by Standard Steel Car Co. The photos referenced are not of high enough resolution for me to examine closely or confirm definitively. It looks like there have been straps added to the last panels on the sides, the doors are replaced or modified, and the trucks appear to be secondhand. 

The other option, given the car number is a Texas & New Orleans (SP) B-50-13, built in 1924, again by Standard Steel. It is certainly similar (at a cursory glance) to the B-50-8 class and the T&NO cars were in series numbers 51250-25549. The comments about the straps and trucks apply equally here.

However, a good find indeed no matter which it is. Better photos can yield a definitive ID.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta


Re: Fixing Plastic Rivets on Resin Cars

Bill Welch
 

Excellent George, I be this would work with styrene rivets onto resin. I have a current project to try this with.

Bill Welch


Re: Southern Car & Foundry

A&Y Dave in MD
 

The site is not well coded, I think. For me, the site is fine. When you click on a photo it is enlarged and the rest of the site is darkened. If you close that photo, the rest of the site returns to normal brightness and function. My guess is you have an older or unusual browser that the site's code does not render well. I got it to work on the latest Version of IE and Chrome on my desktop and Safari on my iPad.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad

45501 - 45520 of 192690