Date   

ventilated boxcars from Accurail 36 foot boxcars

SUVCWORR@...
 

Were these not the doors from the old Central Valley wood kits?

Rich Orr

I remember the old Ambroid ACL kit came with a delicately milled wooden door frame with very fine grooves cut into the back side. Fine wire was inserted into these grooves to make the bars. The frame would be a natural for resin today.



Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Douglas Harding
 

RE Ventilator door: I recall that New England Rail Services currently sells a ½ door conversion kit for Accurail 4000, 4100, 4200, & 4300 series boxcars. A simple overlay with a few detail parts. Could not a similar kit be created to add a ventilator door to the new 36 car body? I agree with others a resin part may be the way to go.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Dave,  

Please send any data you have on these Southern vents to our mutual friend Dave Campbell. I've been trying to convince him to create some printed parts for exactly these same cars. I have photos and ORER numbers (which are absolutely huge before 1950). There's also interest for a kit of this nature from a new-ish RPM meet as a shake & take. (Dave already has Southern decal art drawn up).

For everyone else's information: Dave Campbell is a 1920s era modeler who's also EXCELLENT with 3D CAD work and with getting Shapeways to actually pop out usable parts. Many of you are already using some of his parts in RCW tank car kits, and there are at least four full resin kits on the way based on his work (some of you saw his D&H Seleys at Lisle last year). As "private stock", I have printed and resin cast versions of his ventilated doors and ends for a USRA to FEC 40' ventilated boxcar, so parts for a Southern ventilated box will be "simple" for him to create, and will be reliable, usable parts!

Now all we need to do is find a manufacturer who's interested in producing, stocking and selling conversion kits, rather than full cars......

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "David Bott dbott@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars



I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement.

The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit.  And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:12 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!  

Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars.  I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
---In STMFC@..., wrote :
There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.

Ventilated cars
 There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years. 
Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX
 =====================

I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.
Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.
Dennis Storzek





Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Tony Thompson
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:

 
John presents interesting comparative quantities for the 36- and 50-foot cars of his early 1945 modeling era. The K brake system ban took effect on January 1, 1954. Many railroads were moving their older equipment to scrap or maintenance in the year or two before the ban. If you are modeling timeframe falls before 1953, then you need to consider the 36-foot box cars as your fleet develops. Just paging through Kline & Culotta’s Postwar Freight Car Fleet reveals many older cars in service.

      Ray Breyer's summaries of the prototype histories show that an awful lot of owners of these cars had drawn them down to zero or nearly zero by 1950. My own viewpoint would be that any modeling year after 1945 will have to limit how many of these 36-foot cars you can justify. (I'm thinking Gilbert-Nelson when I say "justify," since pre-1950 survivals were in many cases a couple of hundred cars, or less.) There are some exceptions, to be sure. For my 1953 modeling year, the Accurail 1300-series Mopac cars seem a clear choice, maybe the DL&W 1400s. Of course anyone can choose to create any car fleet they want. I'm only talking about making systematic choices on a prototype basis.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

I really like Dennis’ idea of an etched metal piece with the bars on the back of a resin frame.

 

The smaller end vents can be done with clapboard siding fit into smaller openings and some wire used for the shutter bar to open and close those. This depends upon the specific vent design, of course.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

 




I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement.

 

The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit.  And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars.

 

Dave


Sent from Dave Bott'
 iPhone


On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:12 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!  

 

Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars.  I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!!

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al

 

On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

---In STMFC@..., wrote :
There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.



Ventilated cars

 There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years. 

Eric Hansmann



El Paso, TX

 =====================

 

I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.

Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I'm trying to plan this with a Southern vent that matches. A resin door can be cast as an add-on. The end vent either requires a cut and insert or a cast replacement.

The cost in $ and time of a couple doors and ends balances nicely against the compromises in fidelity compared to a full resin kit.  And I can model vents for multiple roads more easily using Accurail models as the base cars.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:12 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!  


Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars.  I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
---In STMFC@..., wrote :
There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.

Ventilated cars
 There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years. 
Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 =====================


I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.

Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Bruce, don’t think we’re not thinking about this . . .



Schuyler



I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!



Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars. I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!!



Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al

On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :
There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.





Ventilated cars

There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years.

Eric Hansmann





El Paso, TX

=====================



I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.

Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Jon Miller
 

On 2/20/2017 9:00 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
so a simple add on in the closed position would work for me.

    Wonder if a 3-D from Shapeways would work here.  Might be too thin for Shapeways!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Bruce Smith
 

I have three more words to add… Shake and Take!  

Dennis and Accurail have been amazing supporters of the Shake and Take clinics over the years and this new 36' car is just LOADED with possible applications, such as the ventilated cars.  I can certainly see it as fodder for a number of fun conversion projects!!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :
There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.

Ventilated cars
 There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years. 
Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 =====================


I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.

Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Actually except for the L&N's vents, all the rest of the major's Vents have been covered by resin—CofG, ACL, SAL. Other owners—N&W, C&O, Southern—numbers too inconsequential to interest me.

Re: Don's comments believe or not I have my possibilities firmly in hand and know exactly what I am doing.

Bill Welch


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dennis,

Maybe what we need is a conversion mini-kit, or several, since just about every railroad's ventilator cars were unique. Still, there might be some common parts like Wine ventilators that could be mass produced.

Most of these cars had some type of end ventilator, and Wine ventilators were among the most common, though they came in a number of distinctive types. Wine ventilators were also applied to the sides of some cars, including 40' steel types. C&O and Seaboard come to mind. These could be done as thin resin parts, or perhaps Tichy or somebody might tool us up some in styrene.

I remember the old Ambroid ACL kit came with a delicately milled wooden door frame with very fine grooves cut into the back side. Fine wire was inserted into these grooves to make the bars. The frame would be a natural for resin today.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 2/20/17 11:43 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.


Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.


Dennis Storzek

 



Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

John Barry
 

Dennis,

I concur that as an out the door kit, it won't fit your business model or the majority of the public's expectations from your line.  However, it is an opportunity for some enterprising soul to add a vent door aftermarket item to convert your kits to vents.  Even I would buy or build a pair of VMs based on a photo I've seen of a pair of ACL VMs in San Francisco near my era. I think they had been used as boxes with the vents closed, so a simple add on in the closed position would work for me.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.
 
Ventilated cars
 
 
There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 =====================

I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.

Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.

Dennis Storzek
 



Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :

There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.

 

Ventilated cars

 

 

There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 =====================


I keep looking at photos of 'vents', and just don't see a good way to do the barred door. A sandwich of three etchings would do for the door bars and frame, with some molded styrene door rollers, but that just isn't an Accurail 'easy assembly' kit.


Dimensionally, a lot of vents are the same size as this car.


Dennis Storzek

 


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

John presents interesting comparative quantities for the 36- and 50-foot cars of his early 1945 modeling era. The K brake system ban took effect on January 1, 1954. Many railroads were moving their older equipment to scrap or maintenance in the year or two before the ban. If you are modeling timeframe falls before 1953, then you need to consider the 36-foot box cars as your fleet develops. Just paging through Kline & Culotta’s Postwar Freight Car Fleet reveals many older cars in service.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:03 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

 

John Barry wrote:


I had to run to the post office and neglected to add that the short box was 57917, 9.4% of the US XM count.  The 119,727 in North America was 16.3% of the continental XMs.

When you look at the XAs, the US numbers were 1643 short, 75517 40ft, 35951 50ft and one 70 ft car for 1.5%, 66.8%, 31.8% and 0%.  The addition of Canada and Mexico did not appreciably change either the quantity or percentage of the various length auto cars.

Put another way, in Jan 1945 when I model, the 36 ft box was almost twice as common as the 50' auto car and more than 4 times as common as a 50' box.  In other words, I need to balance the P2K 50'ers on my roster with a bunch of shortys. 

Well, maybe I can get away with an imbalance account the jeep production at Richmond and the truck production in the South Bay that needed the auto cars, just as I need a higher than standard proportion of flats.

I do look forward to future releases, but at the same time am willing to wait as you 20's modeler's should pay for all the tooling filling your voids.

John Barry


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

Tank cars were a round a lot longer then you think  I went to High School from 58 to 62, and I use to have to cross Gibson yards every day. I would read the dates on cars that  were built, in  01,02,03,04,05, 06, etc. All these tank cars were coming from the four refineries in Whiting Indiana

Dale Florence



From: "riverman_vt@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars



Gee, Bill, just think of the broader number of car types there would be for you to model if you backed your time frame up from five to ten years. Let's see, there are all sorts of 36 ft. cars that were gone by 1955 not to mention early reefers and tank cars that you like. Just thinking out loud but consider the possibilities!

My best, Don Valentine





Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

There are two words that should get the blood flowing for any Y’All road modeler.

 

Ventilated cars

 

 

There were many 36-foot ventilated box cars in the 1945-1952 years.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 9:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

 



Gee, Bill, just think of the broader number of car types there would be for you to model if you backed your time frame up from five to ten years. Let's see, there are all sorts of 36 ft. cars that were gone by 1955 not to mention early reefers and tank cars that you like. Just thinking out loud but consider the possibilities!

 

My best, Don Valentine



Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Donald B. Valentine
 

Gee, Bill, just think of the broader number of car types there would be for you to model if you backed your time frame up from five to ten years. Let's see, there are all sorts of 36 ft. cars that were gone by 1955 not to mention early reefers and tank cars that you like. Just thinking out loud but consider the possibilities!

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <westerfieldalfred@...> wrote :

Dennis - When I copied the AC&F builders photos I was given permission to reproduce them in any way I wanted.  If you have the Westerfield AC&F photos disk you can also do so.  - Al Westerfield



      That's what I was advised by the ACF folks as well, Al, when I was there making copies and this was long before the Mercantile Library became involved.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Upcoming RPMs

Eric Hansmann
 

A  bunch of prototype modeler events are set for the next few months. The Resin Car Works blog features a calendar review to help you plan your RPM adventures.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/rpm-season-2/



If I missed an event, please send me an email with the details.


Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy


Re: Accurail 36 foot boxcars

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :




Physical possession of negatives or drawings does not constitute renewed copyright.
So while a museum or library can control access to physical materials, it does not
change the copyright status of the materials! Of course you might really piss them
off and they'll never let you in the door again, so there's that.
====================

Tim you are correct. For material this old, it's a matter of contract law, not copyright. Many places do as the Mercantile Library does, and sign you to a licensing agreement before giving you the photo. If you violate the agreement, most likely they won't sue you, although they could... But they'll certainly never deal with you again.

Dennis - When I copied the AC&F builders photos I was given permission to reproduce them in any way I wanted.  If you have the Westerfield AC&F photos disk you can also do so.  - Al Westerfield
====================

Al, I'll pass that on to Ray, who I think has plans to publish photos of these cars.

Dennis Storzek