Date   

Re: Atlas/Branchline Sale

Bill Vaughn
 

Just tried and would not give the discount.

Bill Vaughn


Re: early ORER's

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2017-02-28, at 7:03 PM, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,


Mike, many of the ORERs from those years are indeed available at Google books... but, not on the Canadian side of the border -- Google knows, and will not allow full downloads outside of the U.S.  Searching for specific issues is also a little challenging with Google's search (oddly enough).

There are a selection of dates from 1890 through to November 1917, with most issues between 1907 and 1917 available.  However, these files are not small, running between 100-200 megs per issue.  I think I've managed to download all of the volumes that Google has digitized, having spent a lot of time with a U.S. proxy server (and maxed out my data cap more than once during the process).

Cheers,

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada


Atlas/Branchline Sale

Bill Welch
 

I don't know detail beyond this message via Facebook but "Atlas is running a sale, 75% off their Branchline kits, use the code "KITBASH" during checkout."


Good luck!


Bill Welch

 


Re: early ORER's

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Mike and List Members,

I realize fully that the issue I am about to mention is NOT within the range Mike asked about, but the Jun 1917 ORER can be found at the link below:

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_1A3WAAAAMAAJ

Claus Schlund

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@netscape.net [STMFC] [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 07:05 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] early ORER's


The California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento has an excellent collection of ORERs in their library, which is open to the public.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR



-----Original Message-----
From: mike barone fmikebarone@gmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2017 3:43 pm
Subject: [STMFC] early ORER's







Gentlemen:
Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,
Thanks
Mike Barone







Re: early ORER's

Ted Culotta
 

Mike,

If you know someone in the Bay Area who wants to make a field trip, I believe that Stanford has a very extensive collection.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: early ORER's

Richard Townsend
 

The California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento has an excellent collection of ORERs in their library, which is open to the public.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mike barone fmikebarone@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2017 3:43 pm
Subject: [STMFC] early ORER's

 
Gentlemen:
Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,
Thanks
Mike Barone


Re: early ORER's

SUVCWORR@...
 

Some of them are on google books and can be downloaded  1901, 03, 05, 07, 08, 09, 13, 17

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: mike barone fmikebarone@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2017 6:43 pm
Subject: [STMFC] early ORER's



Gentlemen:
Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,
Thanks
Mike Barone



Re: early ORER's

Ray Breyer
 

Most of them are online as PDFs (or as e-books...yuk) on Google Books. Most specifically, 82 monthly issues between March 1905 and December 1915.

Eric Lombard has an Excel spreadsheet in this group's files section, listing the Google PLAY e-book links. It takes a little cross-digging, but all of the PDFs are also readily available from the more conventional Google Books site.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "mike barone fmikebarone@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] early ORER's



Gentlemen:
Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,
Thanks
Mike Barone





Re: early ORER's

Jack Burgess
 

The California State Railroad Museum Library most likely has copies of those ORERs and can make photocopies for you:



https://www.californiarailroad.museum/visit/library



Give them a call during open hours.



Jack Burgess







From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 3:38 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] early ORER's








Gentlemen:

Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,

Thanks

Mike Barone










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


early ORER's

mike barone
 

Gentlemen:
Would anyone happen to know where I could access ORER's for the 1905-1915 period? I have checked with the NMRA library and they do list the material but it is still in the middle of a move to Sacramento so cannot access these and it maybe some time before they will be available again. I have ORER's both pre and post period so it is only those years I'm lacking. Specifically what I need are the CPR pages for those years,
Thanks
Mike Barone


Re: Really interesting freight car photos today

Dennis Storzek
 

Ten years.... and it didn't have the drawing I thought it had, although I referenced Voss, who does present a drawing of the grooves. The old memory sure isn't what it used to be.

Sorry about the flub in spelling your name, Jack.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Really interesting freight car photos today

Jack Mullen
 

Dennis said:
 as I recall Jack Mullens posted a link to a diagram of the construction used by the Milwaukee Road

I didn't post that diagram, tho I might have referenced it sometime, as I will do now.

. Credit goes to Richard Wilkens, who also posted this accompanying  note with text from a Milw car repair manual.

That was in response to a thread on board roofs, in which Dennis had this informative post:

That all was 10 years ago. A lot of great reference material in the STMFC archives.

Jack Mullen (not plural)


Re: Really interesting freight car photos today

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

Thanks, Dennis, I see what you are talking about.  Always glad to be corrected when I screw up.

Were the drain grooves in the center of the boards?  Seems unlikely that the roof would be made with chamfered boards, making the grooves where the joint is.  One groove per board, or multiple?

Schuyler

=============

Well, this took some time. We had some discussion about double board roofs some time ago, and as I recall Jack Mullens posted a link to a diagram of the construction used by the Milwaukee Road. Rather than search for that, I thought I'd use the time to see if I could find an applicable MCB/ARA standard, or Recommended Practice. The ARA adopted standard lumber sections to be used in carbuilding in 1914, revised in 1920. The sections are illustrated in the 1922 CBC. I could not find illustrations from earlier, so can't say what was revised. As of 1920, the standard for "roofing and lining" was 1x4 or 1x6 boards, dressed 13/16" thick with tongue and groove edges, either 3-1/4" or 5-1/4" face. These did not have V grooves. This is what we are seeing on the left side of the roof in the photo.

The double board roof material was harder to track down, as it was apparently never made to any standard. However, illustrations appear in both the 1879 and 1895 Car Builder's Dictionary, both available on-line. Here is a link to the 1895 CBD:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0UJttWHSwNYC&pg=PP9#v=onepage&q&f=false

Unfortunately, There doesn't seem to be any way to link directly to the page. The illustration in question is Fig. 2379 on the bottom of page 205 of the file.

Briefly, the boards are square edge (no T&G) with a half round groove about 1" in from each edge. On the top layer these are intended to catch most (some) of the water sluicing across the roof, and channel it to the eave.  The boards are laid up with a half board overlap, so what water seeps through the joint in the top layer ends up in the middle of the board below. As it spreads sideways, it comes to the half round grooves in the layer below, which channel it out to the eave, or so the theory goes.

Did it work? If it worked well, there never would have been a need to try to develop sheet metal coverings for freightcar roofs. But it did work well enough to be in common usage for three or four decades.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 3 and FOFC re-prints

Ted Culotta
 

I'm replying Dan's original message. I tend to collect the daily digests and go back to them every few days so I am seeing Dan's message and the replies all anew. Thanks to Bob, Tony, and Bill for their succinct and well reasoned answers. Also, thanks to Tony for his blog posting. I'll add my two cents.

The Reference Manuals are intended to be something that sits on the workbench or desktop and is a quick go-to reference to understand the basics about major prototypes. What was the major house cars type on the Central Vermont? It's in there.

Conversely, as great as the images in the FOFC series are, they are completely governed by what's in the collection. Coverage of prototypes was amazing, but there are gaps in terms of significant prototypes (albeit not many). If it's in the collection, it's in the books. If it's not, then it's absent. I'll refer to but not rehash the comments about the photos being intended for modeling, hence the detail shots are incredible fodder for us. Also, except in rare instances (no other photo of the prototype exists or a detail cannot be referenced any other way) the FOFC images will not appear anywhere else.

If anyone has more questions, I'm happy to answer.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted


Ban On Wood Running Boards

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I understand that in 1944 wood running boards banned on new freight cars, except tank cars (1948).
In what year were wood running boards banned for all existing freight cars?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



 


Re: K brakes

thecitrusbelt@...
 

If my sources are correct:


1933 -  Type AB brakes required on all newly-built cars.

1937 - Type AB brakes required on all newly-rebuilt cars.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Re: Shipping Coal - How Far?

Tim O'Connor
 


I downloaded the PDF - very interesting. California is not even mentioned,
and Washington state shows an 80% decline from 1918 to the late 1940's - down
to 899,000 tons or less than fifty 50 ton carloads a day. Utah shows 7 times
as much, and Colorado 5 times as much, as Washington.

Price patterns are interesting too. From 1940 to 1944 coal prices increased
over 50% !! And continued to rise after the war, with railroad fuel coal prices
doubled from 1940 to 1950. No wonder they dieselized!

Information on work days lost to strikes is remarkable - an AVERAGE of over
40,000 lost days of work PER DAY, EVERY DAY in 1949 - almost 1/10 of the entire
coal mining labor force. Even as mechanization reduced the number of jobs in a
steady pattern that continues to this day.

Tim O'Connor



Jim,
   You might find this Bureau of Mines / Minerals yearbook 1950 interesting.

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/EcoNatRes/EcoNatRes-idx?type=div&did=EcoNatRes.MinYB1950.WYoung&isize=XL

Allen Rueter


Re: Shipping Coal - How Far?

Dennis Storzek
 

Comment about coal tonnage thru the Twin Ports... Keep in mind that all those ore boats that went east with iron ore would be coming back empty, if it wasn't for coal, which is the reason water transport of coal on the Lakes was so cheap. Just about any port on the upper lakes that had an ore dock also had a coal wharf. Ashland, Marquette, and Escanaba certainly did. Also other ports, although they couldn't load ore directly, coal wharves in places like Green Bay, and Manitowoc paid the freight for most of the return trip. In later years C. Reiss seemed to be the big player for commercial distribution on the upper Lakes, but I know at one time they had competition, Clarkson Coal Co. had wharves in at least Superior and Ashland. Clarkson even had their own fleet of GS gons in the WWI era, 300 cars, IIRC, later sold to the Soo. Sorry, I've never looked into it far enough to have tonnage figures, but I suspect they were near the iron ore figures year by year.

Dennis Storzek  


Re: Shipping Coal - How Far?

Allen Rueter
 

Jim,
   You might find this Bureau of Mines / Minerals yearbook 1950 interesting.

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/EcoNatRes/EcoNatRes-idx?type=div&did=EcoNatRes.MinYB1950.WYoung&isize=XL

Allen Rueter


Re: Really interesting freight car photos today

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Dennis, I see what you are talking about.  Always glad to be corrected when I screw up.

Were the drain grooves in the center of the boards?  Seems unlikely that the roof would be made with chamfered boards, making the grooves where the joint is.  One groove per board, or multiple?

Schuyler



---In STMFC@..., <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

But Gary, look at the roof itself. Left side, wood boards, right side,
Viking!
=====================

 

I'm sorry, Schuyler, by no means is that a Viking roof. Among other things, where are the seam caps?

 

What you are looking at is a wood roof where the boards are either V grooved, or milled with the water drain grooves that were common on double board roofs; from the low angle, it is hard to tell which. The half of the roof on the left side of the view has been replaced with boards that lack the milled detail, but are functionally the same. It's just a wood roof. What is interesting is the amount of material that was replaced without the decision being made to do the whole roof. That in itself is worth modeling.

 

Dennis Storzek

35641 - 35660 of 183522