Date   

Re: Sand Loads in HO?

John Barry
 

Jim,

Covered in my blog: Locomotive Sand at Richmond

and 



Northern California Santa Fe locomotive sand was less likely to be carried in Caswells than in SP G-50-10s and 12s for which there is photographic evidence.  It looked pretty white.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I can "go
forward" with this project ... except I'd like to know the
answers to the following 'extra credit' questions ...

Does anyone have any idea where the Santa Fe sourced
their sand for facilities in Northern California?
Or even a clue what color sand was used by the ATSF in
the same area?
- Jim B.



Re: Sand Loads in HO?

Dave Parker
 

I have thought about this more in terms of scenery, but the same principles apply to loads.

If you are a soil scientist, sand particles range in diameter from 0.05 to 2.0 mm.   A good starting point would be ~1.0 mm for typical dune sand.  In HO scale that is 0.011 mm, very fine particles indeed.  The finest US Standard sieve size that you will commonly see is 400 mesh = 0.037 mm, or about 3.2 mm in HO scale (= fine gravel).

IOW, a prototypically correct load should be extremely fine, maybe like flour.  It really shouldn't have much in the way of noticeable texture when viewed with the naked eye.  I have seen several layouts, and a few carloads, where what is supposed to be sand is actually a bunch of tennis balls in HO scale.

As always, YMMV.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Monday, March 6, 2017 3:37 PM, "Peter Hall petehall6369@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Another product you might consider is Sanded Grout.  It’s very fine, and comes in several useful colors.

Thanks
Pete




On Mar 6, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I have used diatomaceous earth, which you can get cheaply from many hardware stores and pet stores.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Sand Loads in HO?

 
Hi all,

What product do you use for making an HO scale sand load
in a gondola? I don't want to use any kind of food product
(such as flour).
I'm willing to color it with paint and washes.

The only commercial product I'm finding is the one by
Motrak. That one might work - but it is white and would
require color changes. And all of the sources I've been
able to find want as much or more to ship it as the load
costs!

This is to represent "sand being delivered to an engine
facility for RR use such as for locomotives" - the sand
seen at a sand tower. It will go in an Intermountain
ATSF Caswell gondola (if that makes a difference).
- Jim B.





Re: Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

Jim Hayes
 

That's close enough for me. There's a big difference between a few drops added to a bottle full and a few drops added to half a paint cup full.

Jim

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:58 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Jim,

 

I use a paint cup with the airbrush. I add the base color paint up to the halfway mark then add the drops of additional color. I have no idea what the ratio would be. I just wing it each time. Once the cars are weathered, it’s often difficult to discern different shades of box car red. There are several images showing before and after weathering on this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/07/29/july-2016-weathering-factory-output/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 5:38 PM
To: Stm Frt Cars
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

 




Eric, when it came to painting, you suggested Vallejo rust with a few drops of scarlet red added. Add a few drops of red to how much rust? A bottle?

 

I like Vallejo and have been using it for some time.

 

Jim




Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tim O'Connor
 


ugh! pass. ymmv. to each their own.

Tim O'


BLI has updated their website to include photos of the actual models.
 
http://www.broadway-limited.com/6000gallontankcar.aspx
 
Andy Cich


Re: automobile cars

Tim O'Connor
 


That was really my point Armand - the notion that the term "automobile car"
is anything more than a "nickname" for certain types of cars.

In the 1950 ORER for example, you will see double door ATSF box cars with
AAR classifications XM, XME, XMR, XAP, and XAR.

Tim O'Connor



 > Didn't they have the "XA" designation? Armand Premo


The definition I gave was the ARA and AAR definition. The naming choices of individual railroads are a separate subject, and as Tim suggests, there were certainly cases where railroad preferences were very much at odds with the "official" recommendation or classification.
Tony Thompson


Re: Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

Eric Hansmann
 

Jim,

 

I use a paint cup with the airbrush. I add the base color paint up to the halfway mark then add the drops of additional color. I have no idea what the ratio would be. I just wing it each time. Once the cars are weathered, it’s often difficult to discern different shades of box car red. There are several images showing before and after weathering on this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/07/29/july-2016-weathering-factory-output/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 5:38 PM
To: Stm Frt Cars
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

 




Eric, when it came to painting, you suggested Vallejo rust with a few drops of scarlet red added. Add a few drops of red to how much rust? A bottle?

 

I like Vallejo and have been using it for some time.

 

Jim



Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

Jim Hayes
 

Eric, when it came to painting, you suggested Vallejo rust with a few drops of scarlet red added. Add a few drops of red to how much rust? A bottle?

I like Vallejo and have been using it for some time.

Jim


Re: automobile cars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

One document I saw (http://www.nakina.net/other/aartype.html) derives its list of AAR Mechanical Designations from Official Railway Equipment Registers starting in 1917. The range of years to which the designations apply also are listed. 


Unfortunately, the list does not go back before 1917 so the word "carriage" does not appear in the descriptions. Note that "XA" evolved and overlapped ""XAR" and "XF" appears to have lasted into the mid-1960s.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 

"XA" -- Automobile. Similar in design to general service box car, but with exceptionally large side or side and end doors (1/17-7/32).

"XA" -- Automobile. Similar in design to general service box car, having 10 ft. or greater clear height inside but with side doors at least 10 ft. wide, with or without end doors (4/38-7/43).

"XAF" -- Automobile-Furniture. Similar in design to automobile car, but usually of larger cubic capacity and greater inside clear height (7/32-10/66).

"XAR" -- Automobile. Similar in design to general service box car, but with side doors at least 10 ft. wide, with or without end doors, and equipped with permanent automobile stowing equipment (4/38-1/49).

"XAR" -- Automobile device. A house car similar in design to "XM" box except unlined with side or side and end doors and equipped with loading racks and/or floor tubes with tie-down chains for loading setup automobiles and trucks, not suitable for general service loading of all miscellaneous commodities (1/53-10/66).
It is recommended that in each case where loading racks in "XAR" and "XMR" cars have been made inoperative by securing in roof of cars for the purpose of transferring cars to general service loading, a note to be included in the Official Railway Equipment Register showing series or individual numbers of cars affected.

"XF" -- Furniture. Similar in design to general service box car, but usually with greater cubic capacity (1/17-10/66).

"XMR" -- Automobile Device. A house car similar in design to "XM", fully lined with side or side and end doors, equipped with loading racks and/or floor tubes with tie-down chains for loading setup automobiles and trucks and suitable for general service loading of other miscellaneous commodities (1/49-10/66).
It is recommended that in each case where loading racks in "XAR" and "XMR" cars have been made inoperative by securing in roof of cars for the purpose of transferring cars to general service loading, a note be included in the Official Railway Equipment Register showing series or individual numbers of cars affected.

"XR" -- Auto Device Car. A house car similar in design to "XM" box either lined or unlined, with side or side and end doors and equipped with loading racks and/or floor tubes with tie-down chains for loading setup automobiles and trucks (1/68).
It is recommended that when loading racks in "XR" cars have been secured in roof of cars for purpose of transferring cars to general service loading, a note be included in the Official Railway Equipment Register showing series or individual numbers of cars affected and whether such cars are lined or unlined (1/68).

 


 


Re: Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

Mark Stamm
 

Scale Hobbyist has better prices than Amazon. No connection just looking for the best value for my hobby dollar. 

http://mrhmag.com/scale-hobbyist-paint/vallejo

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I've bought several different Vallejo paint colors through a little joint called Amazon.

Micro-Mark also offers many of the Model Air colors and they relabeled them to reflect Floquil and Polly-S colors. I bought several of those and was disappointed in the labeling. But an inexpensive color wheel helped me understand some basics and I typically add drops of other color to achieve my end results. For instance, my go-to mineral brown starts with a Burnt Umber and I add 10 drops of aged white to lighten the color. I covered some of this mixing in a recent blog post on car painting.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/02/18/fresh-paint/



Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


On March 6, 2017 at 8:13 AM "Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



On 3/6/2017 7:03 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 It is mostly used by military modelers, so check out the local shops that cater to that crowd

    A couple of good train shops withing 50 miles of me but no military that I know of.  Any mail order folks you know of?  I assume because of formula shipping is not a problem.  Also a site that shows colors/sizes/costs?

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Andy Cich
 

BLI has updated their website to include photos of the actual models.

 

http://www.broadway-limited.com/6000gallontankcar.aspx

 

 

Andy Cich


Re: Erie & DL&w stockcars

Ray Breyer
 

Build date is 11/1924 on those cars, per the one photo I have of the type (Erie 67607, with a reweigh date of 5/1937).
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "ed_mines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Erie & DL&w stockcars



Those Erie stock cars were built from door & 1/2 single sheathed box cars in 1931, the same box cars used to rebuild the rivetless signature car offered in model form by Speedwitch.

ED Mines






Re: Westerfield S-40-1 stock car

Mark Stamm
 

Jon,

Vallejo has been around since I believe the 60's. MRH did an eBook on it and several other paints as replacements for Polly Scale. 

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:58 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

On 3/6/2017 6:23 AM, Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC] wrote:
on the Resin Car Works blog

    Interesting new (?) name in paint.  Apparently not available on the west coast.  Mail order?

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: automobile cars

Tony Thompson
 

Armand Premo wrote:

 
Didn't they have the "XA" designation? Armand Premo

      Yes, that was the original designation. In 1929, for example, XA was the only auto car type, and there was also an XF designation for furniture cars, which disappeared soon after.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: automobile cars

Armand Premo
 

Didn't they have the "XA" designation? Armand Premo

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

SOME railroads considered double door cars to be automobile cars.


       The definition I gave was the ARA and AAR definition. The naming choices of individual railroads are a separate subject, and as Tim suggests, there were certainly cases where railroad preferences were very much at odds with the "official" recommendation or classification.
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: automobile cars

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

SOME railroads considered double door cars to be automobile cars.


       The definition I gave was the ARA and AAR definition. The naming choices of individual railroads are a separate subject, and as Tim suggests, there were certainly cases where railroad preferences were very much at odds with the "official" recommendation or classification.
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Erie & DL&w stockcars

ed_mines
 

Those Erie stock cars were built from door & 1/2 single sheathed box cars in 1931, the same box cars used to rebuild the rivetless signature car offered in model form by Speedwitch.


ED Mines



Re: automobile cars

Tim O'Connor
 


SOME railroads considered double door cars to be automobile cars.

But not all. The Santa Fe called them Furniture or Fe class cars.

That classification continued all the way to the Fe-42's built in 1969.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Sand Loads in HO?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I can "go
forward" with this project ... except I'd like to know the
answers to the following 'extra credit' questions ...

Does anyone have any idea where the Santa Fe sourced
their sand for facilities in Northern California?
Or even a clue what color sand was used by the ATSF in
the same area?
- Jim B.


Re: "Vehicle" Car (Change To Automobile Designation)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Any idea what year the ARA adopted AUTOMOBILE as the standard marking for an oversize boxcar?

     An automobile car was defined as a double-door box car, not "oversize" as such.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: "Vehicle" Car (Change To Automobile Designation)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Hi, Dennis -

 

Any idea what year the ARA adopted AUTOMOBILE as the standard marking for an oversize boxcar?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA