Date   
Re: What is the third car from the camera?

Donald B. Valentine
 

I think you're probably correct, Richard, but given that the photo appears to be taken in Wyoming. PA
wonder what it could be for. It could be a special load other than ore of any grade if it were something 
large that required a crane to hoist it over and lower it into the car. Also, are those webbed straps similar
to what is used now that are going over the top and appear to be fastened to the sides between the stakes?

My best, Don Valentine


---In STMFC@..., <richtownsend@...> wrote :

I'm going to say covered gondola. I've seen similar cars on the C&S narrow gauge in Colorado, used for carrying high-grade ore.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 9:13 pm
Subject: [STMFC] What is the third car from the camera?

 
Hi List Members,

I'd like to invite everyone to consider the nice image linked below:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-12-05-13/C3665.jpg

The two cars closest to the camera appears to PRR class GS gondolas.

What is the third car from the camera? Pickle car? Gondola with covers?
Something else?

Claus Schlund

Re: Broadway Limited Dealers on this list

Donald B. Valentine
 

That makes two of us, Bill, though I thought folks knew that.

Don Valentine, New England Rail Service, Inc.

Re: Pennsy X29

Robert J. Amsler, Jr.
 

Thanks.

 

Bob Amsler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 12:48 PM
To: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC] ; STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 

 

‎Bob

 

According to a PRR plan sheet for ladders, the X29 has

The vertical Styles are 1-3/4 by 1-3/4 by 3/16

Outside to outside the ladder width is 20

The rungs have the rivet holes 18-1/4 apart

The rungs are 3/4 inch in diameter

The rivets fit into a 5/8 hole

The vertical spacing, rung to rung is 15-3/4

 

Hope this helps

Mark

 

From: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]

Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:20 AM

Reply To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 

 

Good morning:

 

I am hope someone on the list may know this information.  I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre.  I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob Amsler

Saint Louis, Missouri

 

 



Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

But didn't TRIX previously try to render this car, and they ran into a lot
of flak here for their mistakes too?


    Yes though they were hindered by their seriously unusual truck-coupler-underframe design, not the least bit easy to fix. This one has far less warts, IMO. And I'm already looking at mods toward insulated ICC 103 and 104 cars of this size.

Tony Thompson



Re: What is this car?

tyesac@...
 

These were "dual service"  stock & coke loading.   Which is why they also have Caswell operating drop doors in the floor.

Tom Casey
Solid top areas had pull-down feed bins I believe?



-----Original Message-----
From: Al Kresse water.kresse@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Mar 7, 2017 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?

 
Solid top areas had pull-down feed bins I believe?

Al Kresse
On March 7, 2017 at 2:41 PM "Al Kresse water.kresse@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
 
C&O had them also . . . . Mr Garstang, later Master Mechanic for C&O helped in their design.

Al Kresse
On March 7, 2017 at 2:32 PM "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
 
>>...But I've never seen a stock car that has those boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR)....


>>...But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never seen anywhere on any RR's stock car....
>>Jim B.


Hi Jim, 

Really? That's a little surprising, because at one time they were de rigueur on almost every stock car built. Just in my own photo collection, I have images of cars from the following roads with this type of large lettering board:

A&NM, ATSF, BCE, C&A, C>, C&S, C&NW, CA&CRW, CB&Q, CCC&StL, CGW, CMO, CP, CRI&P, CC&O, CWV&S, D&RG, DL&W, GN, Hicks, IC, I-GN, KCMO, LPTC, LS&MS, LV, M&NA, M&O, Mather, Milwaukee, MKT, MP, NdeM, NP, NKP, NYC&HR, PM, PRR, RGS, Rutland, SLSF, Soo, SSW, W&LE, Wabash, WC, WM.

Cyril Durrenberger wrote an article for Model Railroading magazine in the early '00's on matching the old Roundhouse (and AHM) shorty stock car to the prototype, and showcased a couple of dozen of these cars. 

True, this type of stock car wasn't much built after 1910, but the type survived into WWII.

Regards, 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
 

 
 

 

Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Granted, it is a size of tank car that is highly desirable!

But didn't TRIX previously try to render this car, and they ran into a lot
of flak here for their mistakes too?

That was Strike ONE. Now, Strike TWO.

It's time for somebody to hit a HOME RUN, I think.

I'm patient. I'm pretty sure that David Lehlbach (Tangent) is planning to do
some more good work building on that beautiful tank car tooling he's already
done. I can wait. There's plenty of stuff in the queue.

Tim O'Connor





Tim O'Connor wrote:

But a funky model with giant rivets, fat handrails, a 4" thick solid walkway. I'm
sorry, but park this blob next to a TANGENT tank car and you will not be happy with
the comparison.


If you mean on the jacket, those are bolts, not rivets. Handrails, last time I checked, can be replaced (along with the heavy ladder). The walkway is pretty lame, there I agree. And full agreement with the comparison to Tangent models.

It's kind of like the BLI releases of the NYC steel boxcars. Yeah, well short of great models, but we needed the cars. These BLI tank cars are very badly needed 6000-gallon insulated cars. Reminds me in a way of what we always used to say about Walthers (some still do): good news is that the model has been produced, bad news is that Walthers did it.

Tony Thompson

Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

But a funky model with giant rivets, fat handrails, a 4" thick solid walkway. I'm
sorry, but park this blob next to a TANGENT tank car and you will not be happy with
the comparison.


   If you mean on the jacket, those are bolts, not rivets. Handrails, last time I checked, can be replaced (along with the heavy ladder). The walkway is pretty lame, there I agree. And full agreement with the comparison to Tangent models.
     It's kind of like the BLI releases of the NYC steel boxcars. Yeah, well short of great models, but we needed the cars. These BLI tank cars are very badly needed 6000-gallon insulated cars. Reminds me in a way of what we always used to say about Walthers (some still do): good news is that the model has been produced, bad news is that Walthers did it.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: automobile cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Atlantic Coast Line also had this practice.

Tim O'


Many of the earlier Santa Fe Fe-class cars were lettered Furniture and Automobile on the car side.
Charlie Slater

Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tim O'Connor
 


  > If it is any help in your decision, I know one of our STMFC members was
  > assisting them with this project, a tank car guy (not I).


Ed Hawkins has made no secret of his assistance. Ed will help any manufacturer
who asks for good prototype information - In this case, Broadway wanted information
on paint and lettering, as Ed has already posted here. And evidently BLI tried to
use the information effectively.

But a funky model with giant rivets, fat handrails, a 4" thick solid walkway. I'm
sorry, but park this blob next to a TANGENT tank car and you will not be happy with
the comparison.

My days of buying "toy" trains are long past.

Tim O'Connor

Re: Pennsy X29

mark_landgraf
 

No rivets are sold by their shank size. The head is usually almost twice the shank size. The drawing called out a 5/8 inch rivet. I had hoped to avoid this by ‎calling out the hole size. Scaling the rivet head vs. the rung diameter of 3/4, the rivet head is larger than the rung. 

Mark

From: Todd Horton toddchorton@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 2:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 

I think you mean the rivet heads are 3/4" in diameter, a 3/4" rivet isn't going into a 5/8" hole, at least not without a LOT of force. 
 
Todd Horton



From: "Mark Landgraf mark_landgraf@... [STMFC]"
To: "'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]" ; STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
‎Bob

According to a PRR plan sheet for ladders, the X29 has
The vertical Styles are 1-3/4 by 1-3/4 by 3/16
Outside to outside the ladder width is 20
The rungs have the rivet holes 18-1/4 apart
The rungs are 3/4 inch in diameter
The rivets fit into a 5/8 hole
The vertical spacing, rung to rung is 15-3/4

Hope this helps
Mark

From: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
Good morning:
 
I am hope someone on the list may know this information.  I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre.  I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob Amsler
Saint Louis, Missouri
 
 




Re: What is this car?

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Solid top areas had pull-down feed bins I believe?


Al Kresse

On March 7, 2017 at 2:41 PM "Al Kresse water.kresse@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

C&O had them also . . . . Mr Garstang, later Master Mechanic for C&O helped in their design.


Al Kresse

On March 7, 2017 at 2:32 PM "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

>>...But I've never seen a stock car that has those boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR)....


>>...But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never seen anywhere on any RR's stock car....
>>Jim B.


Hi Jim, 

Really? That's a little surprising, because at one time they were de rigueur on almost every stock car built. Just in my own photo collection, I have images of cars from the following roads with this type of large lettering board:

A&NM, ATSF, BCE, C&A, C&GT, C&S, C&NW, CA&CRW, CB&Q, CCC&StL, CGW, CMO, CP, CRI&P, CC&O, CWV&S, D&RG, DL&W, GN, Hicks, IC, I-GN, KCMO, LPTC, LS&MS, LV, M&NA, M&O, Mather, Milwaukee, MKT, MP, NdeM, NP, NKP, NYC&HR, PM, PRR, RGS, Rutland, SLSF, Soo, SSW, W&LE, Wabash, WC, WM.

Cyril Durrenberger wrote an article for Model Railroading magazine in the early '00's on matching the old Roundhouse (and AHM) shorty stock car to the prototype, and showcased a couple of dozen of these cars. 

True, this type of stock car wasn't much built after 1910, but the type survived into WWII.

Regards, 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

 


 

 


 

Re: What is this car?

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

C&O had them also . . . . Mr Garstang, later Master Mechanic for C&O helped in their design.


Al Kresse

On March 7, 2017 at 2:32 PM "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

>>...But I've never seen a stock car that has those boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR)....


>>...But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never seen anywhere on any RR's stock car....
>>Jim B.


Hi Jim, 

Really? That's a little surprising, because at one time they were de rigueur on almost every stock car built. Just in my own photo collection, I have images of cars from the following roads with this type of large lettering board:

A&NM, ATSF, BCE, C&A, C&GT, C&S, C&NW, CA&CRW, CB&Q, CCC&StL, CGW, CMO, CP, CRI&P, CC&O, CWV&S, D&RG, DL&W, GN, Hicks, IC, I-GN, KCMO, LPTC, LS&MS, LV, M&NA, M&O, Mather, Milwaukee, MKT, MP, NdeM, NP, NKP, NYC&HR, PM, PRR, RGS, Rutland, SLSF, Soo, SSW, W&LE, Wabash, WC, WM.

Cyril Durrenberger wrote an article for Model Railroading magazine in the early '00's on matching the old Roundhouse (and AHM) shorty stock car to the prototype, and showcased a couple of dozen of these cars. 

True, this type of stock car wasn't much built after 1910, but the type survived into WWII.

Regards, 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

 


 

Re: What is this car?

Ray Breyer
 

>>...But I've never seen a stock car that has those boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR)....


>>...But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never seen anywhere on any RR's stock car....
>>Jim B.


Hi Jim, 

Really? That's a little surprising, because at one time they were de rigueur on almost every stock car built. Just in my own photo collection, I have images of cars from the following roads with this type of large lettering board:

A&NM, ATSF, BCE, C&A, C&GT, C&S, C&NW, CA&CRW, CB&Q, CCC&StL, CGW, CMO, CP, CRI&P, CC&O, CWV&S, D&RG, DL&W, GN, Hicks, IC, I-GN, KCMO, LPTC, LS&MS, LV, M&NA, M&O, Mather, Milwaukee, MKT, MP, NdeM, NP, NKP, NYC&HR, PM, PRR, RGS, Rutland, SLSF, Soo, SSW, W&LE, Wabash, WC, WM.

Cyril Durrenberger wrote an article for Model Railroading magazine in the early '00's on matching the old Roundhouse (and AHM) shorty stock car to the prototype, and showcased a couple of dozen of these cars. 

True, this type of stock car wasn't much built after 1910, but the type survived into WWII.

Regards, 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

Re: Pennsy X29

Todd Horton
 

My mistake, I saw rungs and that translated into rivets somehow.  I apologize for the error.
 
Todd Horton



From: "Mark Landgraf mark_landgraf@... [STMFC]"
To: "'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]" ; STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
‎Bob

According to a PRR plan sheet for ladders, the X29 has
The vertical Styles are 1-3/4 by 1-3/4 by 3/16
Outside to outside the ladder width is 20
The rungs have the rivet holes 18-1/4 apart
The rungs are 3/4 inch in diameter
The rivets fit into a 5/8 hole
The vertical spacing, rung to rung is 15-3/4

Hope this helps
Mark

From: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
Good morning:
 
I am hope someone on the list may know this information.  I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre.  I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob Amsler
Saint Louis, Missouri
 
 



Re: What is this car?

James SANDIFER
 

It is a standard old ATSF stock car. The SK-G, H, K, L, N, and P all had that look at one time with the top boards on the side. Many were rebuilt later in life without the upper boards. Westerfield makes kits of some of these. Most had caswell drop bottoms (not a good way to unload cattle!) and hatches in the roof so they could haul coke back west.

 

You can see the N and P models at http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/Westfld.htm

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 11:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] What is this car?

 

 

Hi guys,

Is this an example of an early ATSF chip hopper that has been
converted from an O.B. box car? Cool car no matter what.

This image is quite small and I can't make out the reporting
marks even after zooming it in a quality image editor ... just
not enough there to work with. Any ideas of what it is and/or
what RR it is? Where might the photo have been taken? When?
The photo name implies it might be somewhere around Topeka?

I don't remember ever seeing a model of anything like this.
But could be kitbashed ... easy?

http://sfrhms.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/RHATSF1829Topeka41LC.jpg

- Jim

Re: Pennsy X29

Todd Horton
 

I think you mean the rivet heads are 3/4" in diameter, a 3/4" rivet isn't going into a 5/8" hole, at least not without a LOT of force. 
 
Todd Horton



From: "Mark Landgraf mark_landgraf@... [STMFC]"
To: "'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]" Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
‎Bob

According to a PRR plan sheet for ladders, the X29 has
The vertical Styles are 1-3/4 by 1-3/4 by 3/16
Outside to outside the ladder width is 20
The rungs have the rivet holes 18-1/4 apart
The rungs are 3/4 inch in diameter
The rivets fit into a 5/8 hole
The vertical spacing, rung to rung is 15-3/4

Hope this helps
Mark

From: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 
Good morning:
 
I am hope someone on the list may know this information.  I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre.  I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob Amsler
Saint Louis, Missouri
 
 



Re: What is this car?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

ATSF Sk-K class cars, as in the second photo, are depicted in Gregg's TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 36, "Freight Cars (Part 2) from the 1919 Car Builders Dictionary. The illustrations include a side view and two interior views. This particular volume also includes a photo and drawings of an more conventional SK-M stock car, plus a side view and end drawing of an Sk-N. Add a photo and drawings of a SFRD Rr-T, and this volume becomes a must for early 20th century Santa Fe modelers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



On 3/7/17 1:16 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Jim,


Here are some stock car photos that confirm that the car in the photo is a stock car.

1943 photo by Jack Delano

AC&F builder’s photo of class Sk-K #57143
Note that the Sk-K was designed to back haul coke.

Here’s a CGW car with a similar appearance

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith   


Re: Pennsy X29

mark_landgraf
 

‎Bob

According to a PRR plan sheet for ladders, the X29 has
The vertical Styles are 1-3/4 by 1-3/4 by 3/16
Outside to outside the ladder width is 20
The rungs have the rivet holes 18-1/4 apart
The rungs are 3/4 inch in diameter
The rivets fit into a 5/8 hole
The vertical spacing, rung to rung is 15-3/4

Hope this helps
Mark

From: 'Robert J. Amsler, Jr.' mpfan1@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 

Good morning:

 

I am hope someone on the list may know this information.  I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre.  I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob Amsler

Saint Louis, Missouri

 

 


Re: What is this car?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

ATSF Sk-L & N/P had this configuration: https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=130_436







Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 12:18 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?





That pattern of exterior boards was not that uncommon. ATSF had some: see Westerfield's 11500 series. Westerfield also has a similar car from the PRR: the 8700 series.



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Mar 7, 2017 10:02 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?



Jim Gates and all,

I agree with all of your analysis - but that stock car still has
me wondering. It is obvious, even to me, that it started life
as a stock car. But I've never seen a stock car that has those
boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR).

Is it possible that the roof was removed, the inside of the
car lined with wood, extensions added, and it is used in chip
hopper service? I don't think so - the location and the entire
train would seem to argue otherwise.
But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never
seen anywhere on any RR's stock car.

Is there an ATSF guy (I am not) on this list who can confirm
that it is a stock car? Probable number? Probable date for the
photo?
- Jim B.

Re: What is this car?

Richard Townsend
 

That pattern of exterior boards was not that uncommon. ATSF had some: see Westerfield's 11500 series. Westerfield also has a similar car from the PRR: the 8700 series.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Mar 7, 2017 10:02 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?

 
Jim Gates and all,

I agree with all of your analysis - but that stock car still has
me wondering. It is obvious, even to me, that it started life
as a stock car. But I've never seen a stock car that has those
boards on the top of the sides/ends (on any RR).

Is it possible that the roof was removed, the inside of the
car lined with wood, extensions added, and it is used in chip
hopper service? I don't think so - the location and the entire
train would seem to argue otherwise.
But the top of the sides (and ends) are something I've never
seen anywhere on any RR's stock car.

Is there an ATSF guy (I am not) on this list who can confirm
that it is a stock car? Probable number? Probable date for the
photo?
- Jim B.