Date   

Re: Stock car interiors

Nelson Moyer
 

Is that car cement on the floor?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:05 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors


Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:
http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg

Google is your friend, use it.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors



Doug,

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section? Sure would be swell to see.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<https://yho.com/footer0>

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org<mailto:doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org> [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.



The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org<http://www.iowacentralrr.org>


Re: Stock car interiors

Douglas Harding
 

Brad per the STMFC list rules I am not able to post the photos because I do not own the copyright nor do I have permission from the owner. Most of the images I have, I found on the internet. Here are a couple of links:

http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-129-1939-SOUTHERN.JPG

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/273365.jpg

 

Google is your friend, use it.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

Doug,

 

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section?    Sure would be swell to see.

 

Thanks,

Brad Andonian 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Decal replacement/recall

Ted Culotta
 

I had a bunch of sets that were released within the last nine months or so printed by a company that has become a large player in the decal industry within the last year. Unfortunately, I have had a number of complaints about these decals not conforming to many surfaces, even in two cases with application of undiluted darkroom stop bath (acetic acid, which is essentially undiluted decal softening agent). I have scrapped these decals and have had them reprinted with my new supplier (the one I raved about so profusely a few weeks back). 

I am doing a sort of recall. PLEASE READ BEFORE CONTACTING ME ABOUT THIS. IF you ordered from me via the web site, you need not do anything. I will send free replacements. It may take several weeks for me to work through this. IF you purchased the decals from me at a meet or show, then I need you to let me know (by forwarding this email TO ME, NOT THE ENTIRE LIST). The following is a list of the affected decals:

Where feasible, I will combine with a mailing for other goods that you have ordered.

I apologize for the quality issues. I thought this printing technology would solve a problem, but it only created one. (However, I do have a use for such printing and will share it very soon).

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: What is the third car from the camera?

rwitt_2000
 

An interesting car indeed.

Another term to use could be a "roofed" gondola as in "roofed" hopper an early term used by the B&O to describe what became covered hoppers.

Can we be sure the car is in revenue service? The photo date is 1916 and the car appears to be all wood construction so its age could be from 16 to 26 years.

Just some thoughts ...

Bob Witt


Re: Southern Railway 1937 Box Car Herald Color in 1949

Ken Roth
 

Thanks Tim.  Actually I hadn't noticed the herald was different in my pictures.  When I looked again this morning at the Speedwitch set, I realized Ted includes both the old style white herald and, thankfully, the later white herald that is needed for the repainted car in these pictures.

Ken Roth


Re: Stock car interiors

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Someone mentioned "steam cleaning". I worked in a salmon cannery in
the early 60's and one of my duties was on the clean up crew after the
canning line was done for the day. We had long hoses with quick
disconnects that allowed us to move them to more than one source.
The steam in the hose came from the boiler house. The pressure
supplied plus the diameter of the 3 foot long steel "wands" on the
end of the hose made for pressures that created a steam jet that
would easily reach out 30 feet or more before it dissipated into
water. We put it right up against locations on the canning machines
that need more pressure. Nothing more was done to clean the
machines (the parts that came in direct contact with the fish
were stainless).

Please remember that after the fish is in the can it goes into a
"retort" which brings the racks of cans up to temperature and
holds it there long enough to kill -any- germs that might be in
the can.
Both before and after the cans went in the retort they were
washed clean of any debris that might have been on the
outside.

It seems reasonable that steam cleaning of stock cars was
pretty much the rule - the lime (white wash) was added to make
certain that anything that wasn't gotten out by the steam was
killed. You don't want the animals to get sick from the car!

I model my stock cars by using a thin wash of white acrylic
on the lower levels (say about the bottom quarter) and then
apply some additional grime with more at the bottom of
the car than at the top. And some 'dribbles' of a dark
charcoal color with some brown in it that comes out of
the bottom and down the sills.
Of course, if you aren't also adding the animals inside
(and "weathering" them) then you really don't want the
'heavy dirt' that represents flowing body deposits ... *G*
I've also experimented with using flat cut outs of animals
and it is surprisingly effective (inside a stock car). Sure
wish I could find some that are two sided - what I've
done for that is to print the pics twice and reverse one.

- Jim B.


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Fred Jansz
 

Garth, why would anyone want a WP tankcar? ;-)) I posess two W&R high walkway WP cars, one water, one oil, both have K-brake unfortunately. I don't like modifying the brass W&R's so me too I'd welcome a Tangent 10k high (or low) walkway car with AB brake, like WP's 1021-1080 (high) and 1081-1180 (low) probably received in 1949-1950?
Cheers, Fred Jansz


Re: Stock car interiors

Douglas Harding
 

Eric, I have no idea.

Clean stock cars were a concern and the matter was discussed at the June 1897 monthly meeting of Central Association of Railroad Officers, Indianapolis Division:

Papers received from Secretary O. G. Fetter were read in relation to practice of cleaning empty stock cars before delivery to connections.

After hearing from all lines represented, it was found that the receiving road did not require the delivering road to clean the cars. This, however, is independent of the practice of Indianapolis Union Stock Yards Company, which cleans and disinfects all cars before loading with export shipments.

 

A 1956 UP Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory has specifications about Cleaning and Disinfecting Cars as well as Railroad Owned or Operated Stock Yards, Pens, Etc. “must be done whenever it is necessary to comply with federal, state, county, municipal or Canadian laws and/or sanitary regulations…” But does not mention lime per see.

 

From notes culled from online discussions:

From ORER

Note P.—Resolution adopted November 18, 1914.

WHEREAS. In view of the general necessity of cleaning and disinfecting stock cars in accordance with the orders of the United States Department of Agriculture and other authorities, it is desirable that the railways prescribe uniformly the rates for such cleaning and disinfecting as have been approved by the Interstate Commerce Commission in case No. 6495, New Orleans Live Stock Exchange vs. Louisville & Nashville Ry. et. al., therefore be it Resolved, That, when necessary, on account of Federal. State, County or Municipal regulations, to clean and disinfect stock cars, the charge will be $2.50 per car when single deck and $4 per car when double deck. These charges will be assessed against the shipment in addition to the regular freight or other charges for the transportation thereof.

 

 

I don't know about the regulations in the U.S., but in Canada, government regulations required the use of lime as a disinfectant in stockcars. This was usually applied by spraying, and as you can imagine, made quite a mess. Eventually, both the CPR and CNR opted to paint the lower carsides white, which at least made them look a little neater. This also necessitated moving the reporting marks and dimensional data higher on the carside. Here's a picture of a similar car on my layout.

 

 

 

The lime disinfectant wash on the Canadian cars may look "overdone" in part because the bottom two thirds of the car was painted white. It would be easier to tell how much was actual lime if the car was a darker colour.

 

The Canadian rules concerning livestock were quite stringent, and included specifications about how they were to be switched (usually first!), how often they had to be unloaded, rested, watered & fed, and so on. Many stations had cattle pens not because cattle were shipped from there, but because "through cattle" had to be unloaded and rested there.

 

Andrew

 

 

You spray the lime where the *ahem* non-white fertilizer *ahem* is..

 

 

It would appear a look for government regulations would provide the answer, but I think you are safe to assume that lime was used as a disinfectant in your era.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

Doug,

When did this practice begin? I just finished a UP stock car detailed for my 1926 era. I knew about the lime disinfectant but am uncertain on when the practice started.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

On March 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

 


Re: Stock car interiors

Brad Andonian
 

Doug,

Would you be willing to add this image to the files section?    Sure would be swell to see.

Thanks,

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, 8:35 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/8/2017 2:35 AM, riverman_vt@... [STMFC] wrote:
Someone had commented earlier about the supposedly
large circumferential rivets at the end of the car.

    That might have been me.  Pictures are worth a thousand words and now that I'm seeing pictures these cars are looking better and better.  Some item are over sized but I don't think it's the bolts.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Stock car interiors

Eric Hansmann
 

Doug,

When did this practice begin? I just finished a UP stock car detailed for my 1926 era. I knew about the lime disinfectant but am uncertain on when the practice started.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


On March 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 



Re: Stock car interiors

John Barry
 

What's the difference?  The directions I followed to white wash the trunks of my fruit trees called for dissolving lime in water to make a thin paste.  It was a common California practice seen in the orchards that provided the fruit loaded in steam era refrigerator cars.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups com"
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 
That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield


On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.
 
The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.
 
Doug Harding
 



Re: Stock car interiors

Douglas Harding
 

Whitewash, by definition, is a mixture of slaked lime and water, and yes was used in place of paint. Lime was also used as a disinfectant. After cleaning, stock cars were typically disinfected using lime. Further the CP & CN (and others) painted the lower parts of their stockcars white to enforce the idea that their cars were clean and free of disease.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 6:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock car interiors

 

 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


Re: Stock car interiors

Armand Premo
 

WHITE WASH WAS OFTEN USED ON INTERIORS OF STOCK CARS.Armand Premo

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM, 'Alfred E. Westerfield' westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 



Re: Stock car interiors

 

That's not white wash, it's lime spray.  Al Westerfield



On March 7, 2017, at 10:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

Jared the photos I have of stockcar interiors show unpainted wood. One shows whitewashed wood, but the grain is still visible. It wouldn’t really matter too much as the steam used to clean the interiors often caused the paint to fail and flake off. Witness the many stockcars that appeared heavily weathered, in reality the paint is still attached to the metal parts, it is the wood parts where paint is absence because of the steam cleaning.

 

The wood interior was also smooth or splinter free, ie rounded edges on the boards where an animal might rub and injure themselves.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Bill Welch
 

Note that instead of a ladder there are "foot holds" attached to one of bands of the car.

Bill Welch


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

riverman_vt@...
 

    Thanks much for posting these, Brian. Someone had commented earlier about the supposedly
large circumferential rivets at the end of the car. From what is seen here, particularly in the second
photo taken outdoors, that is one criticism I won't make as those in the photo appear to be good
sized as well.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Richard Townsend
 

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! I thought I had made it clear that your next tank car should be a multi-dome wine car. Now you're hinting at a high-walkway car? Nobody cleared this with me. ;)
 
(But I'll buy one if it's FW&D.)
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: tangentscalemodels@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Mar 7, 2017 8:40 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

 
>> Garth Groff wrote:
I have asked Tangent to consider an ACF 10K high walkway Type 7 or 11. I've been lobbying various manufacturers for these for years. I have two of the 8K F&C cars, but really want a couple of 10s (the WP used them up until the end). This is a much needed car for the first half of the 20th century, made in the thousands for numerous owners, and very distinctive. Perhaps if some of you also asked Tangent, they might give this more consideration.<<

Tangent Scale Models really does appreciate the enthusiasm for another tank car model from our brand.  We heard Garth's request for these ACF cars a few months ago and here again.  I will save you guys the trouble of ganging up on Tangent with emails and phone calls to offer this specific ACF tank car.  Why?

We have a clear direction for our next tank car releases.  Our next car will be doing a modern crude oil tank car, sorry.

PS - that's a joke.  Sit tight, and save your pennies!

:)

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models




Re: Pennsy X29

Robert J. Amsler, Jr.
 

Thanks, Nelson.  Very helpful article you wrote.

 

Bob Amsler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

 

 

YMW ladder stiles are designated by rung spacing, not width. The width depends upon how long you're grab irons are, or you can select the etched rungs by length. I did a blog post on Resin Car Works Blog on building these ladders. You'll find it at http://blog.resincarworks.com/

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy X29

Good morning:

I am hope someone on the list may know this information. I looking for the width of the ladders on Pennsy X29 box cars so I can get the correct ladder from Pierre. I looked at the all steel book from Speedwitch and the drawings show the distance between the rungs but not the stiles.

Thanks,

Bob Amsler
Saint Louis, Missouri

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Tangent Scale Models
 

>> Garth Groff wrote:

I have asked Tangent to consider an ACF 10K high walkway Type 7 or 11. I've been lobbying various manufacturers for these for years. I have two of the 8K F&C cars, but really want a couple of 10s (the WP used them up until the end). This is a much needed car for the first half of the 20th century, made in the thousands for numerous owners, and very distinctive. Perhaps if some of you also asked Tangent, they might give this more consideration.<<


Tangent Scale Models really does appreciate the enthusiasm for another tank car model from our brand.  We heard Garth's request for these ACF cars a few months ago and here again.  I will save you guys the trouble of ganging up on Tangent with emails and phone calls to offer this specific ACF tank car.  Why?


We have a clear direction for our next tank car releases.  Our next car will be doing a modern crude oil tank car, sorry.


PS - that's a joke.  Sit tight, and save your pennies!


:)


David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models




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