Date   

Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Steve SANDIFER
 

Thank you.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:59 AM
To: h.r@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Steve Wrote:  "I stand corrected on loading. The time began when the car was loaded and ended when it was unloaded. So loading did not count but unloading did."

 

Steve,

 

This will help your cause:

 

"US. vs. Southern Pacific Company, 157 Fed. 459, 1907; "The time of confinement of a shipment of stock is to be reckoned from the completion of the loading at any given point to the commencement of the unloading of the stock at the next point along the route; and there are as many violations of the law as the periods of confinement between loading and the next unloading are in excess of the statutory time prescribed for such confinement between the point of original departure and the final destination of the shipment, even though they relate to the same stock or the same train"

 

Guy Wilber

Reno, Nevada. 

 

 

 



Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Guy Wilber
 

Steve Wrote:  "I stand corrected on loading. The time began when the car was loaded and ended when it was unloaded. So loading did not count but unloading did."

Steve,

This will help your cause:

"US. vs. Southern Pacific Company, 157 Fed. 459, 1907; "The time of confinement of a shipment of stock is to be reckoned from the completion of the loading at any given point to the commencement of the unloading of the stock at the next point along the route; and there are as many violations of the law as the periods of confinement between loading and the next unloading are in excess of the statutory time prescribed for such confinement between the point of original departure and the final destination of the shipment, even though they relate to the same stock or the same train"

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
 




Early Mechanical Reefer: NPMX 500

thecitrusbelt@...
 

From the Tacoma Public Library. Caption:

A Northern Pacific Railway refrigerator car is stationary on tracks in a 1957 photograph requested by the Pacific Car & Foundry Co. All vital information regarding the boxcar is listed on its side, including weight, dimensions and capacity limits. Apparently this was a newly engaged car as of September, 1957.

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/1792/rec/1699

 

Use the slider above the photo to enlarge it.

 

The photo shows that the car owner is Pacific Car & Foundry and NP is the lessee. A Northern Pacific document, Status Of Authorities For Expenditure (http://www.nprha.org/NP%20AFE%20Index/NP_1960.pdf), shows that this car was approved for purchase by the railroad on 1-8-60 and this action was completed 12-30-59 (an after-the-fact authorization probably for tax purposes).

 

As this car appears to be a one-of-a-kind, what happened to it? I would think its relatively short, forty-foot nominal length contributed to an early demise, but that is just a guess.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Re: x43b roof color

naptownprr
 

Rich,


Since the Pennsy was an important customer, you would be safer assuming (IMHO)  that the painting instructions were followed.


Jim


From: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] x43b roof color
 
 

The PRR painting instructions call for the roof to be two coats of asphaltum which would be a grayish black.  The question is did the builders follow these directions and the answer to that is unknown.  


Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Mar 9, 2017 2:18 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] x43b roof color




No one knows for sure. Ed Hawkins posted:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stmfc/conversations/messages/97098

Tim O'Connor


As delivered, did these PRR box cars have a red, or black roof?  The branchline kit contains a black running board and a roof that is black in the center and red around the edges.  I'd be grateful for help in getting the original roof (and running board) color correct.  Many thanks, Ed Shoben



Re: x43b roof color

SUVCWORR@...
 

The PRR painting instructions call for the roof to be two coats of asphaltum which would be a grayish black.  The question is did the builders follow these directions and the answer to that is unknown.  

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Mar 9, 2017 2:18 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] x43b roof color




No one knows for sure. Ed Hawkins posted:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stmfc/conversations/messages/97098

Tim O'Connor


As delivered, did these PRR box cars have a red, or black roof?  The branchline kit contains a black running board and a roof that is black in the center and red around the edges.  I'd be grateful for help in getting the original roof (and running board) color correct.  Many thanks, Ed Shoben



Re: Stock car interiors - cleaning

earlyrail
 

From a NP. Lake Superior Division circular (Jan 1 1960)

System Cars
Stock Single deck stock cars to Mandan, ND for cleaning
Pig Palace stock cars out of South St Paul - return to Darling, MN, via Brainerd promptly

Foreign Cars
Stock Single and Double Deck - HOME

Just the stock car parts of the circular.

Howard Garner


Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Steve SANDIFER
 

Spot the cars at the chure.  (ugh)

 

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 10:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Yep. I hate spellcheck some times, especially on my phone.

 

Spote the cars at the chute.  Or did I get it mixed up with Psalm 95 which is my text for March 19?

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 10:00 AM
To: h.r@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Steve

Did spellcheck take over or are you talking about different  "lambs" and "flocks"???

Charlie Vlk

On my railroad, operators have to spot the car at the church and then wait 1 real minute before moving the car.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:22 PM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Hello Group,

With this discussion about stock car interiors I begun to think about filling those interiors.

My question is… Considering the load to be cattle, how long, on average, would it take to load a typical stock car. Also, the follow-on question of how long would it take to unload a typical stock car.

Next question(s)… would sheep or hogs take longer or less time to load or unload?

Thank & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Steve SANDIFER
 

I stand corrected on loading. The time began when the car was loaded and ended when it was unloaded. So loading did not count but unloading did.

 

The Santa Fe Station Record of Live Stock Forwarded contains forms for each shipment asking when the loading commenced and when it waas completed. For instance, 5 cars of sheep were loaded at Eden, Texas, on December 22, 1959. Loading began at 11:30a and was completed at 2:30p. Train 54 departed at 245p. They were headed to Rath packing in Hilltop, Iowa. Bedding was listed at 3" of sand.

 

On Dec. 17, a car was loaded with only two occupants, a bull and a heifer. Bull was tied or partitioned from the heifer. Loading gegan at 900a and was completed at 920a, train 54, departing at 945a.

 

Most of the records in this book list only the "completed loading" time.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 11:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

I will search my files to clarify that, but certainly once the car was loaded the stock were considered "confined." You did not delay "confined" livestock. Likewise you unloaded immediately upon arrival unless you could explain that weather conditions or something else made unloading unsafe. There were some exceptions for certain cases with sheep and hogs. I have one record of a special caboose hop sent to a stock pen in Kansas to pick up a loaded group of cars left at a pen earlier in the day for unloading. The clock was ticking and rain had made it unwise to unload the cars. They were taken to the division point feeding station to "beat the clock" and to wait out the high water.

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 11:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Steve Sandifer wrote:

> "Remember, the 28/36 hour law began when the first hoof hit the floor, so you did not load cars and let them sit around for an hour waiting on the train unless the trip was short enough that you had time to spare on the clock. Factor in setting brakes, air tests, applyi! ng shipping seals, signing paperwork."

Incorrect, loading and unloading time did not factor into the law.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Steve SANDIFER
 

Yep. I hate spellcheck some times, especially on my phone.

 

Spote the cars at the chute.  Or did I get it mixed up with Psalm 95 which is my text for March 19?

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 10:00 AM
To: h.r@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Steve

Did spellcheck take over or are you talking about different  "lambs" and "flocks"???

Charlie Vlk

On my railroad, operators have to spot the car at the church and then wait 1 real minute before moving the car.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:22 PM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Hello Group,

With this discussion about stock car interiors I begun to think about filling those interiors.

My question is… Considering the load to be cattle, how long, on average, would it take to load a typical stock car. Also, the follow-on question of how long would it take to unload a typical stock car.

Next question(s)… would sheep or hogs take longer or less time to load or unload?

Thank & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: x43b roof color

Ed Hawkins
 


On Mar 9, 2017, at 12:08 AM, ejshoben@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

As delivered, did these PRR box cars have a red, or black roof?  The branchline kit contains a black running board and a roof that is black in the center and red around the edges.  I'd be grateful for help in getting the original roof (and running board) color correct.  Many thanks, Ed Shoben

Ed,
The quick answer to your question is “freight car color” for the roof of PRR X43B box cars. This is the as-built color per the information that follows. 

A longer answer to your question goes back to events experienced by Branchline Trains in the early 2000s and the reason behind the X43B model roof color you describe. The model came with a black roof based on the information BT had at the time when the model was produced in 2002. Bill Schneider added red to the roof depicting overspray that often occurred to prototype box cars when painting the rest of the body. 

The 6,000 PRR 40’-6” AAR-design box cars in Class X43 & subclasses were purchased in 5 groups from Greenville Steel Car Co. (X43), American Car & Foundry Co. (X43A), and Pressed Steel Car Co. (X43B - 2 groups, X43C). The PSC cars were built at the Mount Vernon plant (formerly Mount Vernon Car Mfg. Co.).

Prior to BT’s production of the PRR 40’ box car models, paint specs had been located from bills of materials for X43 (Greenville) and X43A (ACF) box cars. Both documents specified the roofs to be coated with black car cement. 

Documentation or definitive roof-view photos of X43B and X43C box cars in original paint could not be located when decision time came for the X43B model production. Thus, BT used the X43 and X43A documentation and a “logical assumption" that all cars in the X43 class would have been painted the same since they were built over a short time period. Much later, that assumption was found to be erroneous.

During a Naperville RPM (probably 2010) I discussed the topic with Larry Kline, who followed up by searching the PRRT&HS Archives where he found a copy of the paint specs applicable to these cars. Larry sent the one-page document to me in Jan. 2011. The document is titled: Painting of PRR X43B and X43C boxcars, PRRT&HS Archives collection - From: Pressed Steel Car Co Specification 10937, May 22, 1950. 

PSC specification 10937 was applicable to X43B box cars 600000-601999 and was the first of the three orders built by PSC (the other two being specs 11006 and 11075). The document specifies, “Roof outside including metal running boards to be given two (2) coats of Standard Freight Car Paint." The spec also denotes, “Body outside including side sheets, end sheets and doors will be given two coats of Standard Freight Car Paint Red or Brown color.” The underframe received one coat of Metal preservative with laps & joints a heavy coat of Red Lead Compound. Air brakes and attachments, as well as trucks received one coat Carbon Black Paint.

I know - it’s a long answer to a simple question, but it provides some history of events that occurred over many years.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: Reefer With Butter Load

 

A big deal after WW2 rationing eased up. Britain didn’t stop rationing sugar until much later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Timeline







Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:20 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Reefer With Butter Load





This photo is from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption:



30,000 pounds of butter arrived in a Northern Pacific refrigerated car for Franklin Food Stores in July 1946. This photograph was featured in an advertisement for Franklin Food Stores. With every fifty cent or more purchase of groceries or meats, you could buy one pound of "Fresh and Sweet, High 92 Score" butter for sixty nine cents.



http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/7164/rec/1686



Use the slider above the photo to enlarge it.



Obviously, this is NOT a Northern Pacific reefer. This is SFRD 7884, a Class Rr-36 car. It is one of 360 reefers rebuilt in 1945 by the railroad's shops from Rr- W, X, Y, 2, 3 and 4 classes. These original classes, known as the USRA Design cars, were built between 1920 and 1926.



There were still 344 Rr-36 reefers on the live list in 1959, dropping to 215 in 1961, 116 in 1968 and 12 in 1973. None were on the list the following year.



Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/citrusmodeling/info





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Boiler Load On Flat Car

Bruce Smith
 

​Bob,


Neat photo!  Flats are:

WP 2614, reweigh ORO 5-45.  Of interest are the stencil that probably denotes centerline loading issues and the chalk mark "Birchfield" just to the left of the WP.


ATSF ?07?5 (could be 30735), class Ft-?


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al



From: STMFC@... on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Boiler Load On Flat Car
 


From the Tacoma Public Library. 1948 Photo. Caption:

Two flatcars with boilers, Birchfield Boiler. Giant boilers wait on flatcars for shipment to Southern California. The largest will be installed in the new building of the General Petroleum Corp. of Los Angeles.The Birchfield Boiler facilities can be seen in the background. The plant was also completing an order for 25 large pressure tanks complete with copper heating coils for the US Army in addition to approximately 400 tank heaters for the army.

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15644/rec/1798

 

This is a good boiler load reference photo for the boilers offered by Resin Car Works and previously discussed here:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/messages/142613

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/messages/145636

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Reefer With Butter Load

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This photo is from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption:

 

30,000 pounds of butter arrived in a Northern Pacific refrigerated car for Franklin Food Stores in July 1946. This photograph was featured in an advertisement for Franklin Food Stores. With every fifty cent or more purchase of groceries or meats, you could buy one pound of "Fresh and Sweet, High 92 Score" butter for sixty nine cents.

 

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/7164/rec/1686

 

Use the slider above the photo to enlarge it.

 

Obviously, this is NOT a Northern Pacific reefer. This is SFRD 7884, a Class Rr-36 car. It is one of 360 reefers rebuilt in 1945 by the railroad's shops from Rr- W, X, Y, 2, 3 and 4 classes. These original classes, known as the USRA Design cars, were built between 1920 and 1926.

 

There were still 344 Rr-36 reefers on the live list in 1959, dropping to 215 in 1961, 116 in 1968 and 12 in 1973. None were on the list the following year.

 

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/citrusmodeling/info


Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Charlie Vlk
 

Steve
Did spellcheck take over or are you talking about different  "lambs" and "flocks"???
Charlie Vlk

On my railroad, operators have to spot the car at the church and then wait 1 real minute before moving the car.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:22 PM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

 

 

Hello Group,

With this discussion about stock car interiors I begun to think about filling those interiors.

My question is… Considering the load to be cattle, how long, on average, would it take to load a typical stock car. Also, the follow-on question of how long would it take to unload a typical stock car.

Next question(s)… would sheep or hogs take longer or less time to load or unload?

Thank & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Boiler Load On Flat Car

thecitrusbelt@...
 

From the Tacoma Public Library. 1948 Photo. Caption:

Two flatcars with boilers, Birchfield Boiler. Giant boilers wait on flatcars for shipment to Southern California. The largest will be installed in the new building of the General Petroleum Corp. of Los Angeles.The Birchfield Boiler facilities can be seen in the background. The plant was also completing an order for 25 large pressure tanks complete with copper heating coils for the US Army in addition to approximately 400 tank heaters for the army.

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15644/rec/1798

 

This is a good boiler load reference photo for the boilers offered by Resin Car Works and previously discussed here:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/messages/142613

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/messages/145636

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Stock car interiors painting

Armand Premo
 

Too often over looked for their contribution is the RPI group,in particular;  John Nehrich and Jeff English.Armand Premo

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 9:16 AM, harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


I assure you that there are units of the prototype police in Hawaii.

Jared Harper


---In STMFC@..., wrote :


 Where I live I do not expect the Prototype Police to knock on my door.  









 



Re: Stock car interiors painting

Jared Harper
 

Bill,

I assure you that there are units of the prototype police in Hawaii.

Jared Harper


---In STMFC@..., <PARDIEW001@...> wrote :


 Where I live I do not expect the Prototype Police to knock on my door.  









 


Re: Stock car interiors

Tony Thompson
 

      I did not say, nor did I mean to imply, that stock cars were steam cleaned at small village stock pens. I do know that several  railroads steam-cleaned stock cars before releasing them for re-loading. Presumably that would be done at central facilities.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: x43b roof color

Tim O'Connor
 


No one knows for sure. Ed Hawkins posted:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stmfc/conversations/messages/97098

Tim O'Connor


As delivered, did these PRR box cars have a red, or black roof?  The branchline kit contains a black running board and a roof that is black in the center and red around the edges.  I'd be grateful for help in getting the original roof (and running board) color correct.  Many thanks, Ed Shoben


Re: STOCK CAR LOAD/UNLOAD TIME?

Guy Wilber
 

"I will search my files to clarify that, but certainly once the car was loaded the stock were considered "confined." You did not delay "confined" livestock"

The Twenty-Eight Hour Law clearly states, "In estimating such confinement, the time consumed in loading and unloading shall not be considered..."

I never disputed anything about delaying livestock once it was confined within stock cars.


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

47401 - 47420 of 195634