Date   
Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please

Bruce Smith
 

​Um Tim,


The photo clearly shows the car to have an "inset roof", making it...... an X31A 

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/35245/rec/1862


So no, the roof does not make it an X31b ;)


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please
 



No, Steve, it IS an X31b - due to the roof difference, as you noted. So
this is a case of a correctly stenciled X31b in a number series listed in
the ORER as X31, X31a. Thus the "indifference" that I referred to extends
beyond the paint shop fumes on a hot summer day. :-)

Tim O'Connor



This doesn't account for Tim's image of 69245 stenciled as a X31b, which clearly should be a X31a.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Douglas Harding
 

Steel drums are available in several sizes. http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/publishImages/Steel-Drums~~element49.jpg

55 gallon is 23”x35”

30 gallon is 18”x29”

The steel drums in the photo look to be 55 gallon, ie 35” high.

 

AAR Pamphlet No.4 (my copy is dated 1941/1948) contains the rules and regulations for safe loading of drums and barrel. The diagrams for a doubled layer, show 1” boards to be laid on top of the first layer, so the second layer can be set in place. 2x4s are used for horizontal “bilge” protection, though not required for steel drums. 1x6” material to be used as vertical buffer strips between steel drums and crossing bracing.

 

AAR Pamphlet No. 24 (for mixed loads of paint in drums, barrels or pails 1936/1945) specifies for doorway protection the boards must not be less than 1x4” one placed close to the floor and to each other to prevent the lading from falling or rolling out of the car or coming in contact with the doors.

 

The 1930 ARA Loading rules calls for board of 1x6” to be nailed across the door openings when loading empty barrels.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Re: File Sharing—was Viking Roof- USRA DS Rebuilds

Bill Welch
 

Google Drive also allows us share large files with others. At their basic level both Dropbox and Google Drive are free.

Bill Welch

Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please

SUVCWORR@...
 

FYI

Since Tim brought up the roof difference and some may not be aware of what the difference is
X31 and X31a have inset roofs (each side is inset about 3 inches rather than flush with the car sides.
X31b and X31c have flush roof -- flush with the side of the car

From the table below (Jan 1953 ORER data ignore the leading zeros the data is in an old Lotus file which would not sort numbers properly without them.  The individual cars for each AAR class are listed in the notes of the ORER) the 69245 should be an X31.  The X31 and X31a were built concurrently in 1933 and 1934.  TheX31b and X31c were built in 1936.  One possibility is that the 69245 was repaired with a new roof and the class changed accordingly or it was an experimental application of the new roof before the X31b were constructed.  

Without seeing the photograph in question and how clear the number is if it is really 61245 0r 62245 it would be an X31b

X31          059873- 060111  
XMR   
X31          060222- 060721  
XMR   
X31          060235- 060717  
XM    
X31          069000- 069999  
XMR   
X31          069014- 069480  
XMP   
X31          069026- 069499  
XAP   
X31          069505- 069939  
XM    
X31          081100- 081199  
XM    
X31          081103- 081189  
XMP   
X31A         067400- 068999  
XM    
X31A         070000- 070399  
XM    
X31A         076400- 081099  
XM    
X31A         120003- 120011  
XM    
X31B         061100- 062799  
XM    
X31B         061110- 062700  
XMR   
X31B         061125- 062765  
XML   
X31B         061339- 062321  
XMP   
X31C         060800- 061099  
XMR   
X31C         060803- 061099  
XM    
X31C         062800- 063309  
XMR   
X31C         062800- 063309  
XM    
X31D         057700           LC    
X31F         081200- 081889  
XM    
X31F         081200- 081889  
XMR   
X31G         077742           XM    

Rich Orr




-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Mar 12, 2017 5:10 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please




No, Steve, it IS an X31b - due to the roof difference, as you noted. So
this is a case of a correctly stenciled X31b in a number series listed in
the ORER as X31, X31a. Thus the "indifference" that I referred to extends
beyond the paint shop fumes on a hot summer day. :-)

Tim O'Connor



This doesn't account for Tim's image of 69245 stenciled as a X31b, which clearly should be a X31a.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


SOLD OUT: SAL '37 AAR enhanced kits

Andy Carlson
 



All are spoken for thanks for the positive response. You can not begin to understand how much I value this Yahoo user site. Long may it prosper (and avoid jumping over to Face Book).
-Andy Carlson

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 8:58 PM, "Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Hello-

Seaboard Air Line had 100's of class B9 40' boxcars built to the AAR 1937 standard design in 1945. Ajax handbrakes and Apex metal running boards were the most common components. Both even spacing 7 panel Superior doors and 5/6/5 pre-war Youngstown Steel Doors were used.


SAL 19700-19749; built 9-45, 7 panel Superior doors, AAR spring plank 50-ton trucks, Ajax brakes and Apex running boards.
SAL 19750-19799; built 9-45, 7 panel Superior doors, AAR spring plank trucks, Ajax power hand brake and US Gypsum running boards.
SAL 19800-19849; built  9 -45, 5/6/5 pre-war YSD, AAR spring plank, Ajax brake, US Gypsum running board
SAL 19950-19999, built  10-45,  7 panel Superior door, AAR spring plank truck, Ajax brake, US Gypsum running board 
SAL 22200-22499, built  9-45, 5/6/5 pre-war Youngstown Steel Door, AAR spring plank truck, Ajax brake, Apex running board

I am offering some enhanced kits for these SAL '37 AAR box cars.

 SAL B9 #1:  $37, 1st class shipping included
Red Caboose #8002 undec 40' '37 AAR box car kit. Has both 7 panel and YSD.
IMRC Apex running board
Tahoe Model Works Buckeye spring Plank truck, less wheels
4 axles of IMRC High Detail semi-scale code 88 wheel sets with larger axles and accurate back profiled wheels

 SAL B9 #2:  $38, 1st class shipping included
Same, except substitute Yarmouth Models US Gypsum running boards

I accept checks and money orders. With a small fee I also accept PayPal. Contact me off-list (Please) at
Special thanks to Ed Hawkins for his comprehensive 1937 AAR box car owners list.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA







Re: Viking Roof- USRA DS Rebuilds

Tim O'Connor
 

Mark

You can easily share enormous files with individual people, selected
groups of people, or everybody - with Dropbox. You can share files much
larger tna 1 GB - more than a CD holds. Bill Welch often posts his stuff
on Dropbox to share with us.

Tim O'Connor



Scott

I have 6 drawings of Viking roof details - each is 100 megs in size. One is from the manufacturer, the others are from the Erie RR. If you provide your snail mail I will send you a cd

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

Re: Viking Roof- USRA DS Rebuilds

mark_landgraf
 

Scott

I have 6 drawings of Viking roof details - each is 100 megs in size. One is from the manufacturer, the others are from the Erie RR. If you provide your snail mail I will send you a cd

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

From: shhaycock@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 6:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Viking Roof- USRA DS Rebuilds

 

I'm working on a set of CAD drawings for the aforementioned roof, as shown in RPC 24. The drawings shown on page 71 are my reference. These drawings appear to be more suited for the railroad shop crews to use in the actual rebuilding, as they show no dimensions of the roof components themselves.


My questions are: does anyone know of drawings of the components used in these rebuilding kits? My particular interest at this time is the gauge of the steel used to stamp the panels used in this design. Knowing that, I can extrapolate some of the dimensions not on the drawing.


I have some of the viking roofs that are recommended for the Shake N Take projects of a few years ago, but they don't look right compared to the drawings. I'm aware of the fact that these roofs evolved over time, and the modeled roof may be of a different version.

 Does anyone know of a good overhead image of the roof used in the USRA DS rebuilds?


Thanks,


Scott Haycock  

      


Kadee grabs for early IMWX (nee Red Caboose) kits?

Andy Carlson
 

After Red Caboose's acquisition of the IMWX tooling for the '37 AAR car, RC did a small rework for the feeder sprues for the Murphy roof to eliminate the sink marks which were very visible in the edge of the raised panels. Also, they made a new tool for bracket grab irons to replace the clunky IMWX examples.

I purchased a bag full of these replacement bracket grabs from Red Caboose and I have been offering them for sale periodically. You can contact me Off-List at about getting some. They are an exact fit for the off-set locating holes cored onto the '37 car body.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "'David Bott' dbott@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:37 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Kadee grabs for early IMWX (nee Red Caboose) kits?

 
I have a set of IMWX kits representing the 1937 AAR box car for the Southern Railway.  These were early kits and had a nicely representative, but severely oversized grab iron.  It has the staggered holes on the boxcar side for the grab iron bracket to be inserted. Can the Kadee bracket grabs be substituted using the holes in the IMWX/Red Caboose kit?  I know the Kadee grab irons look very similar and are much finer (Yarmouth Model Works’ site even sells a template for drilling holes to use these since Pierre calls the Kadee grabs “superb” http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/index.php/Products/YMW-502 ).  I think it would be nice if they
 
I don’t know if it is worth the difference in look to plug the IMWX holes in the kit and use the Yarmouth Works template to add the Kadees.  If I can use the existing holes though, that indeed would be “superb.”   Has anyone tried?  I have 7 kits to build and I don’t currently have Kadee brackets to test.  I’d order the brackets if I knew they would be a simple fit.  I may stick with the oversized for now if I have to plug and drill to use the Kadees.
 
While awaiting an answer, I’ll go back to working on resin kits for my ’34 Southern Winston-Salem division / Atlantic & Yadkin home layout.  These ’37 kits are for my FCSME club trains (ca 1955).
 
Dave


Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please

Tim O'Connor
 


No, Steve, it IS an X31b - due to the roof difference, as you noted. So
this is a case of a correctly stenciled X31b in a number series listed in
the ORER as X31, X31a. Thus the "indifference" that I referred to extends
beyond the paint shop fumes on a hot summer day. :-)

Tim O'Connor



This doesn't account for Tim's image of 69245 stenciled as a X31b, which clearly should be a X31a.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


A "barrel of oil" (unit of measurement) is 42 gallons. So perhaps that is
the size of the barrels.

Tim O'Connor



Something caught my eye in the photos of those gentlemen loading those barrels.  I rolled a few of the 55 gallon petroleum barrels back in my day during a stint in the Air Force  in the 60s and the barrels in the photo seam to be shorter then the 55 gal type. Perhaps about 3/4 the size of a standard 55 gallon size.. Just saying...
 
G A Jerry Golembowski
Grandy NC

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

Those are NOT lightweight barrels! Is that a deck over a layer of barrels, or, to my eyes (the photo’s pretty dark) it looks like a false floor to put these on about 2’ or so above the car floor. The content of the barrel is ALKALI NO. 1 FLAKE.

Does anybody know what weight would be in a 55 gallon drum of that material?

And why would anyone build a false floor, if that IS what I am seeing there?

Schuyler



   Take another look at the photo, Schuyler. What you have identified as a  false floor is on top of the first layer of barrels which makes it closer to what 40 inches or so about the real floor, or the height of a 55 gal. drum. Note that there is a board placed vertically along the outside of the car on the floor which was probably to keep the rings and ends of the barrels from damaging the interior lining if any rough car handling occured. Another vertical board has been nailed to the interior sheathing, again in a vertical position, at the top of the first layer of drums as well, the distance between them being what made you think the "false floor" was only 2 ft. above the real floor. I really don't think there is any false floor involved here, only two boards installed vertically to protect the interior sheathing as these cars were used to transport grain, with some additional boards laid on top of the first layer of drums to provide and even flat surface to keep the second layer of drums from tipping. I'll wager 
that two more vertical boards to protect the interior sheathing for the second layer were added before things
became too tight to do so as well. That at least is the way I would have loaded the car were I in charge of doing so.

Kind of a neat lifting mechanism to lift the drums and note how the workmen in the car is bent over so he does
not hit his head on the underside of the roof supports. That alone indicates the height of the drums in the lower layer of them. The interior height of these cars was only 8 ft. 4 in. and out of the original 1,000 cars in the series (126000 - 125999) there were still 109 of them listed as still in service in my April 1949 ORER. Has
anyone ever offered a model of these fairly common cars? They were seen fairly often in New England.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Germain Golembowski <golembo@...>
 

Reply to all:
 
Something caught my eye in the photos of those gentlemen loading those barrels.  I rolled a few of the 55 gallon petroleum barrels back in my day during a stint in the Air Force  in the 60s and the barrels in the photo seam to be shorter then the 55 gal type. Perhaps about 3/4 the size of a standard 55 gallon size.. Just saying...
 
G A Jerry Golembowski
Grandy NC 

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Bruce Smith
 

Schuyler,

I would disagree with your assessment of the floor. Magnify the image and you can see barrels under the floorwork. At first I thought that the second layer was not high enough, but again, careful perusal of the image shows that the barrels under the floor are upright. It would appear that at least one more layer could be added over the layer currently being loaded.

As for the weight... it's stenciled on the top :)
G (gross) - 360
T (tare) - 10
X (net) - 350

I'll assume that is in pounds, as the Chemical Engineering Catalog of 1922 indicated that a barrel of alkali was between 300 and 400 lbs depending on the formulation.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Those are NOT lightweight barrels! Is that a deck over a layer of barrels, or, to my eyes (the photo’s pretty dark) it looks like a false floor to put these on about 2’ or so above the car floor. The content of the barrel is ALKALI NO. 1 FLAKE.



Does anybody know what weight would be in a 55 gallon drum of that material?



And why would anyone build a false floor, if that IS what I am seeing there?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Loading Barrels In A Boxcar





Here is another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives.



Caption: Two workers at the Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Co. are photographed loading a freight railroad car with barrels of chemicals for shipment. During World War II, the company manufactured chemicals vital to the war industry.



<http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505> http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505



A couple of things about this photo caught my eye. It appears that the barrels are being loaded in layers with a wood deck constructed for the second layer. Was this a typical loading arrangement for barrels in this time period or would it depend on the contents of the barrels?



Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Greg Martin
 

Schuyler and all,
 
This is a typical AAR barrel loading diagram with a second layer. It would be nice to have a shot of the bracing and blocking to show the way it was done in the AAR diagrams. We can't forget that the cars were loaded for weight first and then cubic capacity.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 3/12/2017 12:04:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Those are NOT lightweight barrels! Is that a deck over a layer of barrels, or, to my eyes (the photo’s pretty dark) it looks like a false floor to put these on about 2’ or so above the car floor. The content of the barrel is ALKALI NO. 1 FLAKE.

Does anybody know what weight would be in a 55 gallon drum of that material?

And why would anyone build a false floor, if that IS what I am seeing there?

Schuyler

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Mark Stamm
 

My guess would be that it secured the barrels in transit. The SLSF boxcar is from series 126000-126999 it has an IH of 8'4". Assuming 55 gallon drums have not changed significantly in height since the 1940's, two drums of approximately 33" in height plus a 2' riser and a layer in between would fill the car to the roofline. 

Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 12, 2017, at 2:04 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Those are NOT lightweight barrels! Is that a deck over a layer of barrels, or, to my eyes (the photo’s pretty dark) it looks like a false floor to put these on about 2’ or so above the car floor. The content of the barrel is ALKALI NO. 1 FLAKE.

Does anybody know what weight would be in a 55 gallon drum of that material?

And why would anyone build a false floor, if that IS what I am seeing there?

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Here is another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives.

Caption: Two workers at the Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Co. are photographed loading a freight railroad car with barrels of chemicals for shipment. During World War II, the company manufactured chemicals vital to the war industry.

<http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505> http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505

A couple of things about this photo caught my eye. It appears that the barrels are being loaded in layers with a wood deck constructed for the second layer. Was this a typical loading arrangement for barrels in this time period or would it depend on the contents of the barrels?

Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kadee grabs for early IMWX (nee Red Caboose) kits?

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I have a set of IMWX kits representing the 1937 AAR box car for the Southern Railway.  These were early kits and had a nicely representative, but severely oversized grab iron.  It has the staggered holes on the boxcar side for the grab iron bracket to be inserted. Can the Kadee bracket grabs be substituted using the holes in the IMWX/Red Caboose kit?  I know the Kadee grab irons look very similar and are much finer (Yarmouth Model Works’ site even sells a template for drilling holes to use these since Pierre calls the Kadee grabs “superb” http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/index.php/Products/YMW-502 ).  I think it would be nice if they

 

I don’t know if it is worth the difference in look to plug the IMWX holes in the kit and use the Yarmouth Works template to add the Kadees.  If I can use the existing holes though, that indeed would be “superb.”   Has anyone tried?  I have 7 kits to build and I don’t currently have Kadee brackets to test.  I’d order the brackets if I knew they would be a simple fit.  I may stick with the oversized for now if I have to plug and drill to use the Kadees.

 

While awaiting an answer, I’ll go back to working on resin kits for my ’34 Southern Winston-Salem division / Atlantic & Yadkin home layout.  These ’37 kits are for my FCSME club trains (ca 1955).

 

Dave

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Those are NOT lightweight barrels! Is that a deck over a layer of barrels, or, to my eyes (the photo’s pretty dark) it looks like a false floor to put these on about 2’ or so above the car floor. The content of the barrel is ALKALI NO. 1 FLAKE.



Does anybody know what weight would be in a 55 gallon drum of that material?



And why would anyone build a false floor, if that IS what I am seeing there?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Loading Barrels In A Boxcar





Here is another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives.



Caption: Two workers at the Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Co. are photographed loading a freight railroad car with barrels of chemicals for shipment. During World War II, the company manufactured chemicals vital to the war industry.



<http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505> http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505



A couple of things about this photo caught my eye. It appears that the barrels are being loaded in layers with a wood deck constructed for the second layer. Was this a typical loading arrangement for barrels in this time period or would it depend on the contents of the barrels?



Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?

=========================


Specifically known as grain lines.


Dennis Storzek

Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here is another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. 

 

Caption: Two workers at the Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Co. are photographed loading a freight railroad car with barrels of chemicals for shipment. During World War II, the company manufactured chemicals vital to the war industry.

 

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505

 

A couple of things about this photo caught my eye. It appears that the barrels are being loaded in layers with a wood deck constructed for the second layer. Was this a typical loading arrangement for barrels in this time period or would it depend on the contents of the barrels?

 

Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Feeling Philosophical Toolwise: FWIW

Bill Welch
 

Last night as I was about to turn-in for the evening I realized the reason I like the Single Edge Razor Blade is because it is literally at my finger tips or said another way it is an extension of my fingers whereas trying to use a knife like an X-Acto is more an extension of my hand. My fingers can work finer than my hand.


Bill Welch