Date   

Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

riverman_vt@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


 > The barrels contain flake/crystal caustic soda/sodium hydroxide/NaOH.
 > Regards Jerry Albin


A friend of mine worked a summer at Cumberland Farms dairy in New Jersey
in the 1960's. One of his jobs was to test the Ph of incoming tanker trucks
of bulk milk. He told me that if the milk was too acidic, he would dump
large bags of caustic soda - LYE - into the tank in order to "sweeten" the
load. So anyway, that's something you can deliver to the creamery on your
layout! :-)

Tim O'Connor


  If you remember back into the late 1950's and early 1960's, Tim, you may recall 
that Crummy Farms and Garelick Bros. were often fined in Mass. for selling milk
that had less than 3.7% butterfat content. Can't help but wonder what would have
happened to them had they been caught in Mass. or northern New England adding 
caustic soda to it. Now both Garelick and Crummy Farms are owned by Suiza
Foods Corp., as is West Lynn Creamery, and anyone who knows anything about
milk won't touch their products. I don't know a single farmer in this region who
ships to either of them and expect their milk, if one can call it that, may be coming 
from outside of the New England Region. Most everyone around here ships to the
Cabot Co-op, which is Agrimark, or the St. Albans Co-op with a few still shipping
to H.P.Hood or Hood owned Booth Bros. Unfortunately it has now been 45 years
since any of it has moved by rail in either freight or passenger service.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

Guy Wilber
 

Roger wrote: "...or a sample photo of what a company’s car would look like and placed in a proposal letter."

Another oddity is that the car is stenciled; ARA SPEC III with a built date of 9-18. The American Railroad Association didn't inherit the MCBA and the specs until 1919.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

Douglas Harding
 

Here is the actual newspaper report: http://www.fairport-erpost.com/x1876475231/Remembering-bygone-businesses-along-Ontario-Street  In reading the entire report, it is obvious the story is about East Rochester NY, as there is a reference to another business built on Ontario St. I found it searching for “The Pierce Oil Company”.

I also found this ad using the PIERCO logo as seen on the tankcar   https://picclick.ca/Label-PIERCO-peanutPierce-Oil-SalesEast-RochesterNYoriginal-ProductsOverTime-162373953347.html

It’s an ad for Peanut Oil for cooking packed for “The Pierce Oil Sales Corp” of East Rochester NY

 

A search for Pierco East Rochester NY brought up this ad for Corn Oil with the PIERCO logo.

https://picclick.com/Label-PIERCO-cornPierco-Oil-CoEast-RochesterNYoriginal-1980-ProductsOverTime-162408457291.html

 

However when searching for “the Pierce Company” of East Rochester, ie the lettering on the tankcar, I get different results for a company that caters to the leather industry with various vegetable oils. “The Pierce Company, of Each Rochester, manufacturers of blended, castor and rapeseed oils for the manufacturer of dope-finished automobile, upholstery and shoe leathers.”

 

I even found a reference to a superfund site for the “Baker Castor Oil Pierce Oil Products” site on Ontario St. East Rochester.

 

It would appear the company went through some name changes, even mergers. The Pierce Co was involved in a lawsuit with an Asian provider of castor oil in 1920.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks, Roger! The ads and info in that Leather & Shoes, Volume 57 book clear some things up about the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. I did not know some private tank cars were lettered “on spec” for a lease proposal.

 

The original article had me a bit confused as it came from the Fairport-East Rochester Post yet the first sentence mentions a Cleveland, Ohio company start up with an operation on Ontario Street. Cleveland has an Ontario Street, too, and there was no mention of a New York operation in the section Bob sent along. A Pierce Company search on the newspaper website brought up many stories of vampires and piercings, but not the historical piece on the company.

 

I assume the GATX lease agreements from the Teens and 1920s are long gone, so we can’t determine if the Pierce Company leased some cars or the quantity leased.

 

And the other Pierce, with their Pennant oil and POCX reporting mark, was a different company in a location far from New York state.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 3:57 PM
To: Armand Premo armprem@... [STMFC]
Subject: Re: [STMFC] [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

 



https://books.google.com/books?id=f6U7AQAAMAAJ

 

small article describes the Pierce Company in East Rochester, New York  in 1919;  (not affiliated with Pierce Oil, producers of Castor Oil as mentioned in below post)

 

Roger Hinman

 

ps

I’m always wary of private car company freshly painted cars, being unsure of whether they are a ready to roll car that’s just been put under lease, or a sample photo of what a company’s car would look like and placed in a proposal letter

 

 

 

 

On Mar 13, 2017, at 5:28 PM, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I found the below reference to Pierce Oil Company in East Rochester, NY.  The location is now a superfund site.

 

 

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2017 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company



On Mar 13, 2017, at 11:01 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I love that tank car photo but it raises questions as it doesn’t quite jell with the accompanying company story. Note the car is a GATX lease but lettered for the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. The company story does not mention a New York operation.

 

 

Bob & Eric,
Just to add a bit to the information, on 3/25/20 the Pierce Oil Corp. placed an order with ACF (lot 8911) for 100 ARA III tank cars of 50-ton & 10,000 gallon capacity. The sample builder photo was POCX 1713, 7-20 build date, and a 4-course tank.

In large sans-serif stencils to the right of the center ladder is PIERCE OIL CORPORATION on two lines, but there are no stencils with a city location. To the left of the center ladder is a large circular emblem having a flag inside with “Pennant" on the flag and OILS below the flag. While this black & white photo doesn’t show color, clearly the emblem is colorful. 

 

Following are three related links that I found with a quick google search. The first two show a company trademark that’s virtually identical to the emblem shown on the POCX 1713 tank car.  The third one adds “Gasoline” that the other two do not include. 

Some related links:

 

 

 

 

There are a few more from auctioneers that require logging in. 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 

 

 



Re: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

ROGER HINMAN
 

https://books.google.com/books?id=f6U7AQAAMAAJ

small article describes the Pierce Company in East Rochester, New York  in 1919;  (not affiliated with Pierce Oil, producers of Castor Oil as mentioned in below post)

Roger Hinman

ps
I’m always wary of private car company freshly painted cars, being unsure of whether they are a ready to roll car that’s just been put under lease, or a sample photo of what a company’s car would look like and placed in a proposal letter




On Mar 13, 2017, at 5:28 PM, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I found the below reference to Pierce Oil Company in East Rochester, NY.  The location is now a superfund site.



Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2017 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company




On Mar 13, 2017, at 11:01 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I love that tank car photo but it raises questions as it doesn’t quite jell with the accompanying company story. Note the car is a GATX lease but lettered for the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. The company story does not mention a New York operation.


Bob & Eric,
Just to add a bit to the information, on 3/25/20 the Pierce Oil Corp. placed an order with ACF (lot 8911) for 100 ARA III tank cars of 50-ton & 10,000 gallon capacity. The sample builder photo was POCX 1713, 7-20 build date, and a 4-course tank.

In large sans-serif stencils to the right of the center ladder is PIERCE OIL CORPORATION on two lines, but there are no stencils with a city location. To the left of the center ladder is a large circular emblem having a flag inside with “Pennant" on the flag and OILS below the flag. While this black & white photo doesn’t show color, clearly the emblem is colorful. 

Following are three related links that I found with a quick google search. The first two show a company trademark that’s virtually identical to the emblem shown on the POCX 1713 tank car.  The third one adds “Gasoline” that the other two do not include. 

Some related links:




There are a few more from auctioneers that require logging in. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

SUVCWORR@...
 

I found the below reference to Pierce Oil Company in East Rochester, NY.  The location is now a superfund site.

http://www.homefacts.com/environmentalhazards/New-York/Monroe-County/East-Rochester/Superfund-Baker-Castor-Oil-Pierce-Oil-Products-Nyd980531651.html

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2017 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company




On Mar 13, 2017, at 11:01 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I love that tank car photo but it raises questions as it doesn’t quite jell with the accompanying company story. Note the car is a GATX lease but lettered for the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. The company story does not mention a New York operation.


Bob & Eric,
Just to add a bit to the information, on 3/25/20 the Pierce Oil Corp. placed an order with ACF (lot 8911) for 100 ARA III tank cars of 50-ton & 10,000 gallon capacity. The sample builder photo was POCX 1713, 7-20 build date, and a 4-course tank.

In large sans-serif stencils to the right of the center ladder is PIERCE OIL CORPORATION on two lines, but there are no stencils with a city location. To the left of the center ladder is a large circular emblem having a flag inside with “Pennant" on the flag and OILS below the flag. While this black & white photo doesn’t show color, clearly the emblem is colorful. 

Following are three related links that I found with a quick google search. The first two show a company trademark that’s virtually identical to the emblem shown on the POCX 1713 tank car.  The third one adds “Gasoline” that the other two do not include. 

Some related links:




There are a few more from auctioneers that require logging in. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

Ed Hawkins
 


On Mar 13, 2017, at 11:01 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I love that tank car photo but it raises questions as it doesn’t quite jell with the accompanying company story. Note the car is a GATX lease but lettered for the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. The company story does not mention a New York operation.



Bob & Eric,
Just to add a bit to the information, on 3/25/20 the Pierce Oil Corp. placed an order with ACF (lot 8911) for 100 ARA III tank cars of 50-ton & 10,000 gallon capacity. The sample builder photo was POCX 1713, 7-20 build date, and a 4-course tank.

In large sans-serif stencils to the right of the center ladder is PIERCE OIL CORPORATION on two lines, but there are no stencils with a city location. To the left of the center ladder is a large circular emblem having a flag inside with “Pennant" on the flag and OILS below the flag. While this black & white photo doesn’t show color, clearly the emblem is colorful. 

Following are three related links that I found with a quick google search. The first two show a company trademark that’s virtually identical to the emblem shown on the POCX 1713 tank car.  The third one adds “Gasoline” that the other two do not include. 

Some related links:




There are a few more from auctioneers that require logging in. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


 > The barrels contain flake/crystal caustic soda/sodium hydroxide/NaOH.
 > Regards Jerry Albin


A friend of mine worked a summer at Cumberland Farms dairy in New Jersey
in the 1960's. One of his jobs was to test the Ph of incoming tanker trucks
of bulk milk. He told me that if the milk was too acidic, he would dump
large bags of caustic soda - LYE - into the tank in order to "sweeten" the
load. So anyway, that's something you can deliver to the creamery on your
layout! :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

Eric Hansmann
 

Bob,

 

I love that tank car photo but it raises questions as it doesn’t quite jell with the accompanying company story. Note the car is a GATX lease but lettered for the Pierce Company of East Rochester, NY. The company story does not mention a New York operation.

 

I checked a couple of ORERs to find more info. In the October 1926 ORER listings, I do not see a Pierce Company listed, but I do see Pierce Oil Corporation (POCX) and Pierce Pipe Line Company (PPLX). These are subsidiaries of Pierce Petroleum Company of St Louis, Mo.

 

A 1917 ORER lists Pierce Oil Corporation (POCX) and Waters Pierce Oil Company (WPOX) together and a home office in St Louis, Mo.

 

The General American listings for each ORER volume do not indicate any tanks for the Pierce Company, which is to be expected since the car wears GATX marks and not a specific company mark.

 

A search for the Pierce Company in East Rochester, NY, circa 1920 does not reveal much, not even the news story with this photo.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

 


From: 1914to1940RRing@... [mailto:1914to1940RRing@...]
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 8:40 AM
To: 1914to1940RRing@...
Subject: [1914to1940RRing] GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

 




A nice, large tank car photo submitted to the Fairport-E.Rochester Post - Fairport of New York:

 

http://www.fairport-erpost.com/storyimage/NU/20100706/NEWS/307069943/AR/0/AR-307069943.jpg

 

The story of the Pierce Oil Company, from the newspaper, is below.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Pierce Oil Co.

 

In 1902 the Signal Oil Company of Cleveland, Ohio erected two buildings just beyond the Ontario Drill Works on Ontario Street. Five years later the company was incorporated as the Pierce Oil Company, with the workers arriving each day by train. They made mustard seed oil, then a rubber extender made from vegetable oil. Mr. Pierce and his four sons ran the company.

 

Branching out, the company began to manufacture blown oils, which were developed from corn, rapeseed and castor beans. Refined rapeseed oil was imported from Japan. These oils were used in finishing artificial leather, real leather and patent leather, used extensively at that time for shoes, bags and belts.

 

These products made up the principal part of the business until 1918 when a refinery was installed for refining vegetable oils such as corn and peanut oils, which are used in making salad and cooking oils. Due to the growth of the business, the plant was enlarged, the oil products continued to be refined and a new brick office building was erected. It remains standing today.

 

During World War I, a large quantity of medicinal castor oil was sold to the United States government. The heavy blown oils were used in marine engines. A million and a half barrels of oil were shipped each year. The company continued until the early 1970s. Today the buildings are home to many small businesses.

 



GATX 7167 - The Pierce Company

thecitrusbelt@...
 

A nice, large tank car photo submitted to the Fairport-E.Rochester Post - Fairport of New York:

 

http://www.fairport-erpost.com/storyimage/NU/20100706/NEWS/307069943/AR/0/AR-307069943.jpg

 

The story of the Pierce Oil Company, from the newspaper, is below.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Pierce Oil Co.

 

In 1902 the Signal Oil Company of Cleveland, Ohio erected two buildings just beyond the Ontario Drill Works on Ontario Street. Five years later the company was incorporated as the Pierce Oil Company, with the workers arriving each day by train. They made mustard seed oil, then a rubber extender made from vegetable oil. Mr. Pierce and his four sons ran the company.

 

Branching out, the company began to manufacture blown oils, which were developed from corn, rapeseed and castor beans. Refined rapeseed oil was imported from Japan. These oils were used in finishing artificial leather, real leather and patent leather, used extensively at that time for shoes, bags and belts.

 

These products made up the principal part of the business until 1918 when a refinery was installed for refining vegetable oils such as corn and peanut oils, which are used in making salad and cooking oils. Due to the growth of the business, the plant was enlarged, the oil products continued to be refined and a new brick office building was erected. It remains standing today.

 

During World War I, a large quantity of medicinal castor oil was sold to the United States government. The heavy blown oils were used in marine engines. A million and a half barrels of oil were shipped each year. The company continued until the early 1970s. Today the buildings are home to many small businesses.

 


Layout update

Eric Hansmann
 

Jim Six offers a layout update on the latest Resin Car Works blog. Check out Jim's progress on his reconfigured layout.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/jim-six-layout-update/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please

Bruce Smith
 

Tim,

Sorry - I thought we were still talking about #69203 , not #69245 and your comments a vis a vis #69203 being an X31B  ;)   69203 is clearly a double door X31A.

I’d love to see the photo of 69245.  Can you see the ends?  Does it have the under-floor tubes and end brackets for an Evans loader?  Do you know the year of the photo?  (any chance you can post the photo?)

I can't think of many ways in which an X31B style roof car would get into the X31A number series.  

One might be the loss of the original X31A in that series and the desire to have a car in that series for a specified service and thus the assignment of an X31B to the X31A series (it’s not mentioned in a footnote in the ORER, is it?).

Another might be a misnumbering of the car (in other words, the number was misapplied to the car when being painted) - I find this very unlikely but…you never know!

Another might be a wreck repair of an X31A with an X31B style roof.  That requires a pretty major repair as the ends would need to be changed as well. It could however result in the car being reclassified as an X31B, but remaining in the X31A number series.

Interesting.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Mar 12, 2017, at 10:27 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Bruce

That's what YOU say :-) but there's also a shot of a "turtle roof" X31f that
is stenciled X31b !! 

Nope, I'm sticking with PHOTO evidence. If the PRR says it's an X31b, then that
is what it is! Documents can lie, but photos never lie! I learned that here. :-)

Tim O'

P.S. The photo you linked to is NOT the car I was talking about.

P.P.S. I'm now on the prowl for photos of flush-roof X31a photos! ;-)


-----------------------------

Um Tim,

The photo clearly shows the car to have an "inset roof", making it...... an X31A 
http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/35245/rec/1862 

So no, the roof does not make it an X31b ;)

Regards

Bruce Smith




Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

jeralbin@...
 

The barrels contain flake/crystal caustic soda/sodium hydroxide/NaOH.  Regards Jerry Albin


Re: D&RGW Gondola At Coal Dock

Roland Levin
 

Hi Jim

I stumbled on the steel version just after sending the first mail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-D-RGW-General-Service-Steel-Sided-Gondola-46335-NIB-/361926664496?hash=item544482a130:g:VDIAAOSwB-1YvDv2

 

Roland

 

Från: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Skickat: den 13 mars 2017 09:59
Till: STMFC@...
Ämne: [STMFC] Re: D&RGW Gondola At Coal Dock

 

 

Hi Jim

This would be your best starting point for this series of gondolas from Rio Grande:

 

Red Caboose has also made the same car with steel sides.

 

Best regards

Roland Levin

 


Re: D&RGW Gondola At Coal Dock

Roland Levin
 

Hi Jim
This would be your best starting point for this series of gondolas from Rio Grande:

Red Caboose has also made the same car with steel sides.

Best regards
Roland Levin


Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Greg Martin
 

Schuyler,
 
What you are seeing is a 2x? standing on edge to protect the door and doorway from the barrels shifting in transit. This occurs at the top and bottom of the barrels and makes for a good ledger for the false floor above the barrels, this will occur on the second layer as well. It gives you the impression that there is a false floor but there is no need for one. The rule specify in nearly every loading of a closed top load that the door and doorway must be protect from a load shift, the piece of bracing (sticker) that intersects the 2x8 is cut the dimension of the void to also protect the door. Remember that "hunting" is not just the end to end motion but is also the side to side motion of the car caused by the trucks and not the slack action.  Just remember that everything loaded seeks the void, it is the first rule of thumb.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
Bruce writes:

Schuyler,

I would disagree with your assessment of the floor.  Magnify the image and you can see barrels under the floorwork....  


Re: PRR Boxcar: Number, Please

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce

That's what YOU say :-) but there's also a shot of a "turtle roof" X31f that
is stenciled X31b !!

Nope, I'm sticking with PHOTO evidence. If the PRR says it's an X31b, then that
is what it is! Documents can lie, but photos never lie! I learned that here. :-)

Tim O'

P.S. The photo you linked to is NOT the car I was talking about.

P.P.S. I'm now on the prowl for photos of flush-roof X31a photos! ;-)


-----------------------------

Um Tim,

The photo clearly shows the car to have an "inset roof", making it...... an X31A
http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/35245/rec/1862

So no, the roof does not make it an X31b ;)

Regards

Bruce Smith


Re: x43b roof color thanks

Ed Shoben
 

Many thanks to all who helped educate me on this topic.  Particular thanks to Ed Hawkins who took the time and trouble to provide such a detailed description of the history of the BL car.  -Ed Shoben


Re: Loading Barrels In A Boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ah, now that I am looking at the picture without the sun backlighting my monitor (I SAID it was a dark image . . .) I see that this is the second deck of barrels. Sorry I misread the image the first time earlier today.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:45 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Loading Barrels In A Boxcar





Here is another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives.



Caption: Two workers at the Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Co. are photographed loading a freight railroad car with barrels of chemicals for shipment. During World War II, the company manufactured chemicals vital to the war industry.



<http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505> http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/15944/rec/1505



A couple of things about this photo caught my eye. It appears that the barrels are being loaded in layers with a wood deck constructed for the second layer. Was this a typical loading arrangement for barrels in this time period or would it depend on the contents of the barrels?



Also notice the line markings on the car interior indicating the limits for various grain loads. Was there a term for these lines?



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lime and Loading stock (was Stock car interiors)

Kurt Stoebe
 

When I asked the old station agent in my home town how he counted livestock being unloaded in the middle of the night at the local sale barn, he told me, "Easy, you count the legs and divide by four. "

Kurt Stoebe
Fort Dodge, Iowa

44261 - 44280 of 192655