Date   
Underframe Ban

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I've consulted several sources on the banning of older freight car underframes. For the year 1974 I found two conflicting notes:

 

1974 - No underframes over 40 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

1974 - No underframes over 50 years if built before July 1, 1974.

 

So is 40 or 50 years?

 

And was this a ban from interchange initiated by the industry or did the federal government outlaw such older underframes?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

Douglas Harding
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

 

Doug, this is a contact print from a single large format negative (most likely 8x10). The windows were only for light... a "pass through" loading arrangement would have been very inefficient. The shift in the sign on the side of the building is due to one part of the building extending further out than the rest. If you could see the building from the side, you would see the sign correctly.

 

Bill Daniels

San Francisco, CA

 

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:18 AM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

As it is a flour mill, it is quite possible they are loading bags of flour. That would explain the covered loading dock, to eliminate possible contamination. Note what appears to be covered window openings. They appear to be at floor height and perhaps could be used for pass through loading of a second string of boxcars. One window is open and it looks like some grain door boards have been tossed out.

 

Also very interesting how the large sign is not lined up correctly on the building side. Is this two photos stitched together? Or two buildings stitched together. Not just the sign, but also the building roof line does not line up, even the roof color changes.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

 

Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb

-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947

 

Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 

Re: Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

Jim Hayes
 

What makes you think it's MTYs in, loads out? Since it's the Tacoma waterfront and Eastern Washington is wheat country, it seems more likely to be loads in for transfer to a ship.

Jim

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 9:15 AM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

As it is a flour mill, it is quite possible they are loading bags of flour. That would explain the covered loading dock, to eliminate possible contamination. Note what appears to be covered window openings. They appear to be at floor height and perhaps could be used for pass through loading of a second string of boxcars. One window is open and it looks like some grain door boards have been tossed out.

 

Also very interesting how the large sign is not lined up correctly on the building side. Is this two photos stitched together? Or two buildings stitched together. Not just the sign, but also the building roof line does not line up, even the roof color changes.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

 

Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb

-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p17061coll1/id/19663/rec/29

 

Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Doug, this is a contact print from a single large format negative (most likely 8x10). The windows were only for light... a "pass through" loading arrangement would have been very inefficient. The shift in the sign on the side of the building is due to one part of the building extending further out than the rest. If you could see the building from the side, you would see the sign correctly.
 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA


On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:18 AM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
As it is a flour mill, it is quite possible they are loading bags of flour. That would explain the covered loading dock, to eliminate possible contamination. Note what appears to be covered window openings. They appear to be at floor height and perhaps could be used for pass through loading of a second string of boxcars. One window is open and it looks like some grain door boards have been tossed out.
 
Also very interesting how the large sign is not lined up correctly on the building side. Is this two photos stitched together? Or two buildings stitched together. Not just the sign, but also the building roof line does not line up, even the roof color changes.
 
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out
 
 
Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out
 
Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb
-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947
 
Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

Douglas Harding
 

As it is a flour mill, it is quite possible they are loading bags of flour. That would explain the covered loading dock, to eliminate possible contamination. Note what appears to be covered window openings. They appear to be at floor height and perhaps could be used for pass through loading of a second string of boxcars. One window is open and it looks like some grain door boards have been tossed out.

 

Also very interesting how the large sign is not lined up correctly on the building side. Is this two photos stitched together? Or two buildings stitched together. Not just the sign, but also the building roof line does not line up, even the roof color changes.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

 

Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb

-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p17061coll1/id/19663/rec/29

 

Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

Eric Hansmann
 

Although it is fuzzy when you zoom in all the way, it looks like a PRR XL box car is part way into the entry on the near side.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 




Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb

-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p17061coll1/id/19663/rec/29

 

Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Empty Boxcars In...Loaded Boxcars Out

 

Another photo from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Archives. Caption: Tacoma Grain Co . J.T. Moulton & Sons, arch. & contr . -built in 1890 by the Northern Pacific Elevator Co . -also known as Elevator A, operated by Cardin & Bibb

-incorporated as the Tacoma Grain Co. in 1893 -became the Centennial Flouring Mills Co. in 1934 -destroyed by fire 1/30/1947

http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p17061coll1/id/19663/rec/29

 

Who needs covered hoppers? Boxcars rule!

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: NYC FREIGHT CAR LETTERING PRACTICE

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie asked:
"Most photos of NYC boxcars in the 1950's show a small triangle with (I believe) paint data on the lower left side of the car.

Is there a date when this practice was initiated?"

December 1950.  More info here (scroll down 2/3 of the way down the page):


Ben Hom


Re: Santa Fe reefer questions

Tony Thompson
 

Scott Chatfield wrote:

 
When did the Santa Fe rebuild their reefers so the hatches opened toward the center of the car, like almost all other reefers?  I know they did it so mechanized icing chutes had easier access to the bunkers.  Just don't know when.

     Santa Fe, like other major reefer owners, began to install icing machines in 1949 and 1950. Soon after, they BEGAN to convert their cars to have conventional hatch-opening toward the car end. A lot of this was done in the next two or three years, but there are photos of SFRD cars some years later with unconverted ice hatches. 

Would any of the various Rr-2x classes have been rebuilt that way?  (C&BT models)  I built one years ago (20 years?) following the same ideas Tony Thompson gives in his blog.  Now I'm building the other one I bought.  The first (Rr-25 #33628) has a reweigh date of SB 4-55 but this second kit (Rr-23 # 31677) has a date of SB 5-62 and will run on a friend's 1962 era B&O layout. 

       My own opinion would be that 1955 is pretty darn late for more than an occasional inward-opening hatch. I am open to correction by Santa Fe mavens. You can of course consult the SFMS book by Richard, Keith Jordan, John Moore and Dean Hale for specifics.

Richard would have popped off an answer and gently chided me for forgetting that he covered this in a clinic at Naperville back in, well, a while back.  Too many beers ago.  Miss him…..

       Very true, Scott, and well said. My own first instinct on a question like this is to pick up the phone and dial Richard . . .

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





NYC FREIGHT CAR LETTERING PEACTICE

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Most photos of NYC boxcars in the 1950's show a small triangle with (I believe) paint data on the lower left side of the car.

Is there a date when this proctice was initiated?

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie

Re: the track the crane is on appears to be dual-gauge

rwitt_2000
 

The first crate on the left also has stenciled:

OELRICHS and CO.
5 Greenwich ST.
New York

A quick Google finds them to be a freight forwarding company.

There is book published by them "Aids to Shippers", which is available as an eBook.

Bob Witt

Santa Fe reefer questions

D. Scott Chatfield
 

When did the Santa Fe rebuild their reefers so the hatches opened toward the center of the car, like almost all other reefers?  I know they did it so mechanized icing chutes had easier access to the bunkers.  Just don't know when.

Would any of the various Rr-2x classes have been rebuilt that way?  (C&BT models)  I built one years ago (20 years?) following the same ideas Tony Thompson gives in his blog.  Now I'm building the other one I bought.  The first (Rr-25 #33628) has a reweigh date of SB 4-55 but this second kit (Rr-23 # 31677) has a date of SB 5-62 and will run on a friend's 1962 era B&O layout. 

I doubt they would still have Andrews trucks by then.  There's two pics on Fallen Flags of Rr-2x reefers (a 22 and a 23?) taken in Toronto in the '50s.  Both have later plain bearing trucks.  Was there a program of truck swaps or was it hit or miss?  Did Santa Fe have a favorite replacement truck?

Richard would have popped off an answer and gently chided me for forgetting that he covered this in a clinic at Naperville back in, well, a while back.  Too many beers ago.  Miss him.....


Scott Chatfield

Re: the track the crane is on appears to be dual-gauge

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <lnnrr152@...> wrote :

Really Dennis?  You would run a piece of equipment down "track" where one rail
is on ties and the other is on some other support?  Where there is nothing holding
the rails in gauge except ballast and habit? I wouldn't even want to watch.
Chuck Peck in FL
==========================
Yeah, really. Secondary trackwork was done a bit differently back in the days of 30 and 40 ton cars. Those are long ties in that track, plenty long to keep it in place relative to the one separate rail mounted to the pier wall. We don't really know why they chose to do this, but I'm sure it worked well enough, at the time.

Dennis Storzek


Re: March op session on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

I incorrectly said March when I meant to say April.  JVH

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:06 PM, Jared Harper <harperandbrown@...> wrote:
On one of the Saturdays or Sundays in April I want to have an operating session on my Santa Fe Alma branch.  A session lasts about 2 1/2-3 hours with a crew of three running trains 95/96 from Burlingame, Kansas, to Alma, Kansas and return.  Lunch is served prior to the session.  The operating positions--engineer, conductor, and brakeman are assigned on a first come, first served basis.  I will decide on the date based upon when operators say they are available.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606

Re: Cut Levers

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Bob,

This is called a "Carmer uncoupling lever". It doesn't push... you push down on the lever and it lifts the pin. Since the coupler acts with a pin instead of a rotary mechanism, it would not have been used for new or rebuilt cars after 1933.
 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA


On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 4:27 PM, "thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I have a question about these.
 
Around 1933 rotary uncoupling levers became required on all newly-built or newly-rebuilt freight cars. The example below appears to be a design that requires a pushing motion rather than a rotary motion:
 
 
Would this cut lever be an example of a design banned after 1933 all newly-built or newly-rebuilt freight cars?
 
Thanks.
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
 


Cut Levers

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I have a question about these.

 

Around 1933 rotary uncoupling levers became required on all newly-built or newly-rebuilt freight cars. The example below appears to be a design that requires a pushing motion rather than a rotary motion:

 

http://sscale.org/site/wp-content/gallery/tssjv1n8/cramer-example.jpg

 

Would this cut lever be an example of a design banned after 1933 all newly-built or newly-rebuilt freight cars?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 

Re: the track the crane is on appears to be dual-gauge

Scott H. Haycock
 

If you go to the previous image, it is of a couple of Hart-Parr tractors.

Scott Haycock


 

No erielack confirmation yet, but I am beginning to think the gauntlet track hypothesis is correct.

And BTW, that 1915 Hart-Parr tractor, which probably was in production in 1912 when the photo was taken was a serious beast!

Schuyler



Re: the track the crane is on appears to be dual-gauge

spsalso
 

Or even gantlet track?


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: the track the crane is on appears to be dual-gauge

Patrick Wade
 

Could this be gauntlet track?

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Notice that the bollards go off into the distance in a straight line.  This section of dock would thus appear to be straight.


Notice that, beyond the crane, the rail on concrete curves abruptly to the left.  That curve looks unusually abrupt for a dockside crane.  And to no obvious point.

Notice also that the distance between rails 1 and 3 is very similar to the distance between rails 2 and 4.

Notice also what appear to be tie plates under rail 2 only.  Narrow gage cars would be unlikely to be more needful of tie plates than the standard gage cars.  Especially under one rail only.

For now, I will go with a track being added to lessen the distance between rail cars and ships so that crane loading is to better advantage.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

 


3D model Illinois Terminal Rodgers hopper

Doug Forbes
 

Group,

I found a picture in a Google search of an Illinois Traction Rodger Ballast car.  It was placed in service in 1909 in series 9000-9005.  The photo is from the "Electric Railway Journal" July 8th, 1916, volume 48, p. 49.  I have designed a 3D model of it and am blogging about in on MRH here. http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/29466  I am waiting for the detail parts to show up to finish it.  I am looking for feedback and thoughts.  It is available on Shapeways if anyone is interested.