Date   

Re: painting NP reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

True, Tony, but the photos I cited show black hardware, without any "kick plate" painted below the door. The 91000 series steel cars shown on the next page don't have black hardware, but DO have black frame tabs... with the area between the frame tab and the bottom of the door being yellow. I'd leave it off. It'll be a lot easier to add it later if better documentation comes to light, than to take it off…


   I understand your point, though I doubt that steel reefers tell us anything definitive about painting of wood reefers. There are certainly ample photos, unfortunately in black and white, of NP wood reefers in the 1940s and into the 1950s with SOME color of kick plate, along with side hardware which I assume to be black. I am quite serious in stating that I don't think body color for the kick plate in my modeling year of 1953 is viable. I merely want to know WHAT color .

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: painting NP reefers

np328
 

I need to do a bit of research before I reply, however I will state, heed Tony's words on " But before the early 1950s, nearly all reefers DID have the kick plates a contrasting (dark) color. So it is entirely era-dependent. There can be no general answer", and the photos I am looking through support Tony fully.

 Thank heavens Tony models a sensible year I can relate to.                     Jim Dick


Re: painting NP reefers

npin53
 

Freight car red/oxide.  

I added a photo to the photos section, of a car that was part of an interior wall of a demolished building.  3/4 of the car was pristine.  

If this area of the car was black, someone show me another shot.  Only the door hardware was black, as far as what I can gather.

Only took 10 hours for my last message to post.  ??????

Aaron Gjermundson


Re: Sand Loads in HO?

Michael Gross
 

Arizona Rock and Mineral makes a great product, so I’m sure the final load looks great.  Do post a photo when you get time so we can see the final result.

Cheers!


Re: painting NP reefers

Robert Heninger
 

Group,

FWIW, there are several photos of the NP 90000 series refrigerator cars in FOFC Vol. 8. I see a distinct tonal difference between the "kick plate" and the door hardware, which was black. I'd say Bill got his models right, and the kick plates were freight car red. 

I don't have any color photos of these cars, at least in the era I'm interested in, pre- 1950. I'd welcome any definitive proof as to the color of the kick plate, when it is painted a contrasting color from the yellow side.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Shipping Coal - How Far?

Dave Parker
 

Randy:

Since you are specifically interested in New England coal traffic, I suggest the 1942 paper by Voskuil.  It also contains some interesting data on Great Lakes traffic.

It can be found free of charge at:


Best regards,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



On Sunday, March 19, 2017 4:40 PM, "randy@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I didn't look at Arkansas or Montana in my other post. This book only tabulates totals of at least 10,000 tons, so smaller amounts won't be included. In the case of mining products the threshold is 50,000 tons.

Arkansas - (Products of Mines other than Petroleum 1950)
CA - 50,000 tons 
OR - 200,000 tons
WA - none listed

Montana (Products of Mines 1950, so it includes petroleum this time)
WA - 100,000 tons
CA - 350,000 tons
OR - none listed

Randy
--
Randy Hammill
True Line Trains  |  http://truelinetrains.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  |  http://blog.newbritainstation.com



Re: painting NP reefers

ROGER HINMAN
 

I just posted a photo of the lower door area ofa surviving car at a museum in Toppenish Wa. The paint is well worn, but it does look like thee are traces of red.

Roger Hinman


Re: painting NP reefers

Dennis Storzek
 


True, Tony, but the photos I cited show black hardware, without any "kick plate" painted below the door. The 91000 series steel cars shown on the next page don't have black hardware, but DO have black frame tabs... with the area between the frame tab and the bottom of the door being yellow. I'd leave it off. It'll be a lot easier to add it later if better documentation comes to light, than to take it off...
Dennis Storzek

---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

Has it occurred to anyone that the area below the doors didn't necessarily have to be painted a contrasting color?


     Of course, Dennis, and during the 1950s most reefer owners stopped painting side details in contrasting colors (door hardware, kick plates, ladders and grab irons, sill steps). It all became body color, obviously an economy move if nothing else.
      But before the early 1950s, nearly all reefers DID have the kick plates a contrasting (dark) color. So it is entirely era-dependent. There can be no general answer.

Tony Thompson 






Re: painting NP reefers

npin53
 

I can look through some books tonight.  Will try to find a clear color photo.

W&R painted that area black on their factory decorated brass models.

Maybe Jim Dick will chime in.

Aaron Gjermundson


Re: painting NP reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

Has it occurred to anyone that the area below the doors didn't necessarily have to be painted a contrasting color?


     Of course, Dennis, and during the 1950s most reefer owners stopped painting side details in contrasting colors (door hardware, kick plates, ladders and grab irons, sill steps). It all became body color, obviously an economy move if nothing else.
      But before the early 1950s, nearly all reefers DID have the kick plates a contrasting (dark) color. So it is entirely era-dependent. There can be no general answer.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: painting NP reefers

Dennis Storzek
 

I really hate when people post pictures of models to illustrate a paint scheme. Who is to say if the model builder is correct... what he had for data, and if his interpretation of that data is correct?

The Morning Sun NP Color Guide has photos of both sides of NP 207882, which was a renumbering of a 90000 series car. One side the "bib" under the door is very dark, could be black, but so is most the rest of the siding below the floor line, so is most likely missing paint and wood turned black from weathering. The view of the other side the area in question appears to be dirty yellow.

I also have some photos of a 91000 series steel car, now in preservation, but still in original paint. The area below the doors is dirty, but definitely yellow.

Has it occurred to anyone that the area below the doors didn't necessarily have to be painted a contrasting color?

Dennis Storzek


RC PFE Reefers was Re: HO Red Caboose Mather Meat Reefer kits

Bruce Smith
 

If we’re hoping for a retooled R-30-12 series… can we ask for separate brake gear too? :)  Scraping the molded on details off one of the biggest steps in “fixing” these cars for me.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Mar 20, 2017, at 12:00 PM, fred@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



There is some doubt that the new owners of Red Caboose, Intermountain Railway Co., will ever offer these cars in the future, as I have had explained to me that IM feels that they have "too many wood reefers".

Which might be true, but what worries me more is that the tooling of the wood (PFE) reefers is not OK. 
Why? Missing is the L-shaped steel strip that holds the bottom of the wooden boards to the frame. This L-shape is fastened with nuts & bolts. Also the steel reinforcement strips on the ends are missing. I cannot understand why RC just skipped an obvious eye-catching detail like that. 
RC tries to simulate this L-shape with a thick black plastic strip - I never knew why it was there at all. Now I know it's supposed to be the bottom part of the L-strip. The top-part with the N&B detail is just left out at all. 
Sunshine & Tichy wooden (PFE) reefers posess this detail and I sure hope RC/IM will seriously reconsider their tooling when they offer a new wooden reefer in the future. So we can all benefit from obvious detail that's not present at this moment. I've built and rebuilt quite a few wooden RC reefers, but since I know the detail described above is missing, I regard them as obsolete... Yes, a rivet counter I am.



Re: HO Red Caboose Mather Meat Reefer kits

Fred Jansz
 

There is some doubt that the new owners of Red Caboose, Intermountain Railway Co., will ever offer these cars in the future, as I have had explained to me that IM feels that they have "too many wood reefers".

Which might be true, but what worries me more is that the tooling of the wood (PFE) reefers is not OK.
Why? Missing is the L-shaped steel strip that holds the bottom of the wooden boards to the frame. This L-shape is fastened with nuts & bolts. Also the steel reinforcement strips on the ends are missing. I cannot understand why RC just skipped an obvious eye-catching detail like that.
RC tries to simulate this L-shape with a thick black plastic strip - I never knew why it was there at all. Now I know it's supposed to be the bottom part of the L-strip. The top-part with the N&B detail is just left out at all.
Sunshine & Tichy wooden (PFE) reefers posess this detail and I sure hope RC/IM will seriously reconsider their tooling when they offer a new wooden reefer in the future. So we can all benefit from obvious detail that's not present at this moment. I've built and rebuilt quite a few wooden RC reefers, but since I know the detail described above is missing, I regard them as obsolete... Yes, a rivet counter I am.


Re: painting NP reefers

Jim Hayes
 

Tony, I have the instructions. If you or anyone else wants a copy, just contact me.

Jim

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

On 3/19/2017 11:14 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
    I have a completed Norwest kit for a NP 90000-90999 series reefer, and the body is painted

Tony,

    I have (two) of these and one assembled.  I am not remembering which is which as the second kit is in a box labeled Kit #113 NP 90000-90999 series but the instructions are labeled kit #111 CP 288750-28399.  Waiting for decals which will never come as the two of us who wanted them (grin)!  Anyway the CP instructions say the entire car is oxide red (no black) fading to a pinkish color.  The two B&W pictures appear to show the CP cars one color. 

    Found my package on these cars.  I probably built kit #107/108 GTW car.  The castings may be for NP (#113), haven't unwrapped them.   Anyway the instructions,  for the NP cars, have two B&W pictures showing the kick plate black.  (BCR?)

confused??????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Re: painting NP reefers

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2017 4:02 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
Tony I hope BCR is correct:

    OK they may be BCR (red) as the photos with the instructions are B&W and it's hard to tell

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: painting NP reefers

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/19/2017 11:14 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
    I have a completed Norwest kit for a NP 90000-90999 series reefer, and the body is painted

Tony,

    I have (two) of these and one assembled.  I am not remembering which is which as the second kit is in a box labeled Kit #113 NP 90000-90999 series but the instructions are labeled kit #111 CP 288750-28399.  Waiting for decals which will never come as the two of us who wanted them (grin)!  Anyway the CP instructions say the entire car is oxide red (no black) fading to a pinkish color.  The two B&W pictures appear to show the CP cars one color. 

    Found my package on these cars.  I probably built kit #107/108 GTW car.  The castings may be for NP (#113), haven't unwrapped them.   Anyway the instructions,  for the NP cars, have two B&W pictures showing the kick plate black.  (BCR?)

confused??????

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: painting NP reefers

Jim Hayes
 


Tony, it's black. I have pictures of a W&R model that has a black 'kickplate' and the model I built almost 10 years ago I painted black. There's no mention in the instructions about color of that area. I have 2 rolls of photos of the last existing car of it's class but it's quite derelict and looks like it was in work train service, everything painted bcr.

Jim



CB&Q layout progress

Eric Hansmann
 

Nelson Moyer returns to the Resin Car Works blog with another segment on his layout. Follow along as Nelson fits a portion of the CB&Q into his home.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/overcoming-adversity-layout-design-with-nelson-moyer-part-2/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web and publicity guy


Re: painting NP reefers

Bill Welch
 


painting NP reefers

Tony Thompson
 

I have a completed Norwest kit for a NP 90000-90999 series reefer, and the body is painted. I have been hand-painting the door hinges, ladders, etc. black. But I can't find the painting directions from the kit, and don't know what color the kick plate under the door should be. My guess would be BCR, but might it be black? Any help appreciated.


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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