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Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale

Jared Harper
 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale--Vols. 1-3, and 5.  $17.50 each plus shipping.  They are in excellent condition with a little darkening along the spine when they were smoked in our house fire.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 3060706-543-8821



PHOTO HELP NEEDED YET AGAIN

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I am seeking photos of the SP&S flat cars in the 32005 -32054 series. This is the Tichey flat car for the NC$ StL.. I did this kit years ago for the SP&S although I believed at that time that the car was not quite accurate for tht road. I was going to change the car to NC&StL but someone convinced me that the car is indeed accurate.

Thanks for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, have you published photos of your plywood box with the DA ends?
I am very interested to know what that looks like. :-) What do you think
of the Intermountain plywood box? (Other than the bottom sill, which I
know has to be replaced.)

Tim O'Connor

I am fairly certain that Westerfield offers the post-war 7/8 GN USRA clone.

I was one of the lucky ones with Andy Carlson's castings. I have his 50-foot steel rebuild using the old Walther's 50-ft SS underframe with fishbelly centersill. Mine is Orange & Green with DF and delineators. I also have two models since offered by Sunshine, the Pratt trussed SS 40-foot boxcar that built into a very nice model and one the GN's Plywood cars. This required Detail Associates 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and Red Caboose roof. Mine has orange sides and black ends and roof.

Bill Welch


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Bill Welch
 

I am fairly certain that Westerfield offers the post-war 7/8 GN USRA clone.

I was one of the lucky ones with Andy Carlson's castings. I have his 50-foot steel rebuild using the old Walther's 50-ft SS underframe with fishbelly cnetersill. Mine is Orange & Green with DF and delineators. I also have two models since offered by Sunshine, the Pratt trussed SS 40-foot boxcar that built into a very nice model and one the GN's Plywood cars. This required Detail Associates 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and Red Caboose roof. Mine has orange sides and black ends and roof.

Bill Welch


rebuilt X29's (was re: 40 Year Old Cars)

Tim O'Connor
 



Does this mean that the PRR rebuilt "X29" box cars with NEW underframes? I ask because
many of the rebuilt X29 classes lasted into the late 1970's if not the 1980's - long past the 40
year old limit.

Tim O'Connor




I have a note (unfortunately without a reference) that says in 1974 a rule was enacted that prohibited cars in interchange
with underframes over 40 years old if built before July 1, 1974. Was there an earlier rule prohibiting cars (I assume based
on the age of their underframes) over forty years old in interchange?
Bob Chaparro

====================



No, not that I'm aware of. The Soo Line still had one of their 1920 built boxcars listed in the ORER in 1971; 51 years of age.

Dennis Storzek


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks, I saw Todd's post, too. I had no information on the clones.

Does Accurail offer its USRA DS box car with 7/8 ends??

Thanks for the info about 45000-52999... (WHAT A HUGE NUMBER RANGE!)

In my very first attempt to buy mail order RESIN kits I wrote to Andy Carlson
maybe 25 years ago to try to order some GN rebuilds. (The GN had so many great
rebuilds and virtually nothing in resin is now available.) Anyway I failed Andy
had decided by then not to produce any more kits.

Tim O'



A couple of errors in your post. GN series 24994-25993 were not USRA design boxcars, as Todd Sullivan has pointed out, but "USRA clones" (how can clones be different?) with differences in the doors, door tracks, and most notably, the ends, which are 7/8 Murphy, not 5/5/5.

And the 27000-27799 series (famous for being the first Glacier Green cars) were rebuilt from 45000-52999 series boxcars, not USRA cars. The GN never rebuilt the USRA or USRA clones into steel boxcars. Examples from both series were rebuilt into stockcars in the 1950s, as the GN was retiring their older truss rod stock cars. Many others were sent to MOW service, lasting well into the BN era.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: ORERs

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

My reply was really directed to Ike's post but I had not seen it,
only your reply...

Anyway I thought of an EXCELLENT reason why ALL railroads were very interested
in the exact number of freight cars they owned - Per Diem! There had better be
an account of every single car's whereabouts at midnight every night and if they
were offline, the account had better be paid!

Tim



Tim,

You have me there. I should have said, "if it wasn't important for the number of cars in a series to be accurate, why was it tracked in the ORER?" My response was in reply to George Eichelberger's post of April 8, 2017. Apparently the Southern didn't care too much about the accuracy of the listings of cars being taken out of service. The GN did, dutifully counting down the numbers of GN truss rod cars, despite their wholesale retirement in the postwar years.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: What can I model?

Allan Smith
 

Jared 
If you would contact me of list I would send you a roster of the USRA DS boxcars.

Al Smith
Smithal9@...


On Monday, April 10, 2017 8:02 AM, "harperandbrown@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Thanks Al.

Jared Harper



GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

A couple of errors in your post. GN series 24994-25993 were not USRA design boxcars, as Todd Sullivan has pointed out, but "USRA clones" (how can clones be different?) with differences in the doors, door tracks, and most notably, the ends, which are 7/8 Murphy, not 5/5/5.

And the 27000-27799 series (famous for being the first Glacier Green cars) were rebuilt from 45000-52999 series boxcars, not USRA cars. The GN never rebuilt the USRA or USRA clones into steel boxcars. Examples from both series were rebuilt into stockcars in the 1950s, as the GN was retiring their older truss rod stock cars. Many others were sent to MOW service, lasting well into the BN era.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: ORERs

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

You have me there. I should have said, "if it wasn't important for the number of cars in a series to be accurate, why was it tracked in the ORER?" My response was in reply to George Eichelberger's post of April 8, 2017. Apparently the Southern didn't care too much about the accuracy of the listings of cars being taken out of service. The GN did, dutifully counting down the numbers of GN truss rod cars, despite their wholesale retirement in the postwar years.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: ORERs

Todd Sullivan
 

I worked the Northern Pacific Company of Oregon - Car Distributor Clerk position for 2 weeks in December 1961, and I used the ORER every day to check car capacities, length, and special features while filling customers' orders.  We relied on them and the validity of the data they contained heavily.

Todd Sullivan


Re: What can I model?

Todd Sullivan
 

And in January 1952, the ORER showed 1343 cars in series GN 23494-24993 (USRA DS originals) and 872 cars in series GN 24994-25993 (USRA DS clones with 7/8 dreadnought ends).

Todd Sullivan


Re: ORERs

Tim O'Connor
 


Indeed, what happened after WWII was a mass migration of heavy industry away
from the eastern states (where industry had originally developed) to "greenfield"
developments everywhere else. If you follow car loadings after WWII up to the PRR-NYC
merger, you see a steady (sometimes steep) drop in car loadings on those eastern roads
and a steady rise for other roads (SP, Southern, others). At one point in the 1950's
I recall SP bragging that a new rail-served customer was being added every day. In the
case of the PRR it was probably losing one every day. I figured it out once but at
some point in the 1960's the SP's revenue-ton-miles exceeded those of the PRR+NYC for
the first time.

Tim O'


In the case of the PRR, the malaise that eventually resulted in the Penn Central debacle had already set in. Dennis Storzek


Re: What can I model?

Jared Harper
 

Thanks Paul.

Jared Harper


Re: What can I model?

Jared Harper
 

Bill.  Thanks!  Jared Harper


Re: What can I model?

Jared Harper
 

Thanks Al.

Jared Harper


Re: ORERs

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <blindog@...> wrote :

I should also like to point out that just because a group of older cars is listed in the ORER doesn't mean they actually in service.  News reports from the late '50s indicated huge numbers of cars owned by the northeastern railroads were in dead storage, never to used in revenue service again.  In 1958 one-quarter of the Pennsy's fleet was stored bad order.  That's a lot of freight cars!  So while sizable numbers of older classes were still listed in the Register, unless you model some old yard or nearly-abandoned branchline where all those miles of cars were stored, you probably don't need them.

Just sayin'....
====================

Not sure that either the time, or the railroad, makes for a typical example.

The country was in an economic recession from August 1957 to April 1958 (one of the few times my dad, a construction worker, was laid off and didn't work through the winter). So, with traffic down, I'm sure a lot of roads were storing cars.

In the case of the PRR, the malaise that eventually resulted in the Penn Central debacle had already set in.

Dennis Storzek



Re: ORERs

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

I'll give an example of why this was definitely IMPORTANT to know - some
number series had ZERO cars. Who suggested that knowing how many cars there
were is unimportant? :-) Also in many sparsely populated series, railroads
sometimes list every single car number in service. That tells me they cared
very much about the accuracy of the ORER. "Mistakes happen" is the name of
this story!

Tim O'




I'll take a contrary position: If the number of cars in service wasn't important to know, why was there a column for it in the ORER? It would seem to me the GN tried to be accurate, as the number of cars in service changes for each number series  in the various issues of the ORER I have examined.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: What can I model?

Tim O'Connor
 


FYI, there were still 25 GN USRA DS's in revenue service in 1965. In 1959 there
were 790 cars in two groups 23494-24993 (347 cars) and 24994-25993 (443 cars).

Many of them were rebuilt with steel sides and moved to the 27000-27799 series
in the 1960's.

Tim O'Connor





Jared, et al---

I was surprised to find that Great Northern had 23866 still running in 'hide service' in the early 1960s.  This would be a suitable late running example of the USRA DS boxcar.  A photo was published in the August 1993 issue of Mainline Modeler on page 20.  The car was in very nice shape and possessed a very large goat.  The October ORER shows 317 in service within the 23494-24993 series.

Kind regards from Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna. where spring is breaking again.

 
I have an F&C 3051/3061 flat 40' USRA DS boxcar kit.  The label says I can model a B&M or Rock Island car.  Were there other roads that had cars like these that could model using this kit?

Thanks.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: ORERs

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <gn2059@...> wrote :

I'll take a contrary position: If the number of cars in service wasn't important to know, why was there a column for it in the ORER? It would seem to me the GN tried to be accurate, as the number of cars in service changes for each number series  in the various issues of the ORER I have examined.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND
================

I am also late to the party here. The arguments already presented that the actual number of cars makes no difference, since if the car didn't exist, no one would be looking it up, make some sense, as far as they go.

However, that ignores the times when a shipper complains, "why can't you send me more cars like the last one, instead of this junk." It becomes an easy reference to find the answer, "Because we only own six of them, and they are scattered all over the country." I'm sure there were other instances of agents being asked to find cars with a specific dimension or other characteristic, and having some idea how large the potential target population was would be useful.

Anyway, It is my understanding that updates to the ICC valuation reports were still required at least until 1960, so someone was already counting the cars for this purpose. It would be trivial to mine this data to provide mostly accurate numbers for remaining cars in each series for inclusion in the ORER.

Dennis Storzek

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