Date   

Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Todd Sullivan
 

Well, my 1952 ORER says the GN USRA originals and clones had the same height to the eaves, running board and top of the brake staff, and the same cuft capacity (3098).  The only difference is that I can see from the dimensions is that the clones had an extreme width 2" wider at 10'-1" and the extreme width point occurred at a different height from the rail (12'-6" vs 11'-7" on the originals).

Guess I'll wait on the ends if Andrew is working on them.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

gary laakso
 

Thanks, Tim O’!

 

Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 6:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

 

 

Gary

Cocoa beans did not need refrigeration or insulation. Hershey had insulated
cars for its PRODUCTS, which did need insulation. Deliveries to the candy factory
should include packaging (specialty cardboard papers), inks (for decorating candy
boxes), sugars (cane sugar or syrup, or corn syrup), fats (butter, oils), possibly
milk (for milk chocolate) and the other ingredients (chocolate, flavorings). A large
candy producer certainly could generate carloads, but LCL sounds right for a small
factory.

Tim O'

>The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.
>
>Boxcars would have delivered bagged sugar and most other ingredients, though maybe a refrigerator car for creams. The packaging materials would likely also be delivered by boxcars. Assuming that this or other similar candy factories shipped out to small stores on line crates of candies, they likely would have gone REA, unless a large a distributor needed LCL service. Flavorings could have moved via refrigerator cars returning for further loads. Would cocoa beans be delivered in refrigerator cars acting as insulated boxcars returning to their home road?
>
>Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid? It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric?
>
>Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms
>South of Mike Brock


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Todd Sullivan
 

Tim O' wrote:

Does Accurail offer its USRA DS box car with 7/8 ends??

I don't know if Accurail does, but Westerfield offers a 7/8 corrugated end that looks like it should fit their USRA DS kit.  I'm going to try those soon to see if they do.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Tim O'Connor
 


Say WHAT?? There was no such thing as an insulated box car (i.e. RB bunkerless reefer) ???

I have shots of wood sheathed steam era Hershey's RB's. The "L" refers to loading devices, which
really came into their own with forklifts and pallets. Prior to that time loads were braced or packed in
such a way to avoid load shifting.

Tim O'




Jeff,

I would think heat in the summer melting the bars was more of an issue than shelf life.   RBL cars did not yet exist.  Reefers where used to keep the contents cool just from all the insulation.  Express reefers reduced the likelyhood of the car standing in multiple yards and the load being lost.

Rich Orr


Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

SUVCWORR@...
 

Jeff,

I would think heat in the summer melting the bars was more of an issue than shelf life.   RBL cars did not yet exist.  Reefers where used to keep the contents cool just from all the insulation.  Express reefers reduced the likelyhood of the car standing in multiple yards and the load being lost.

Rich Orr



Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Jeffrey White
 

Gary,

I can't speak for Brown and Haley, but I've done a lot of research on Hollywood Brands Candy in Centralia, IL. They made the $100,000 bar and I think the Zero candy bar.�

It was built in a large building that was previously an envelope factory.� It was served by the IC and it had it's own power plant.� I have a photograph of express reefers spotted at the plant in the era covered by this list.�� I have been unable to find out if they routinely shipped the product in express reefers though.� I don't know what the shelf life of the candy was in those days.� Perhaps it had to go by express service?

Jeff White

Alma, IL


On 4/10/2017 5:05 PM, 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] wrote:
�

The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial� II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.

�

Boxcars would have delivered bagged sugar and most other ingredients, though maybe a refrigerator car for creams.� The packaging materials would likely also be delivered by boxcars.� Assuming that this or other similar candy factories shipped out to small stores on line crates of candies, they likely would have gone REA, unless a large a distributor needed LCL service.� Flavorings could have moved via refrigerator cars returning for further loads.� Would cocoa beans be delivered in refrigerator cars acting as insulated boxcars returning to their home road?�

�

Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid?� It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric?�

�

Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms

South of Mike Brock



Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Tim O'Connor
 

Gary

Cocoa beans did not need refrigeration or insulation. Hershey had insulated
cars for its PRODUCTS, which did need insulation. Deliveries to the candy factory
should include packaging (specialty cardboard papers), inks (for decorating candy
boxes), sugars (cane sugar or syrup, or corn syrup), fats (butter, oils), possibly
milk (for milk chocolate) and the other ingredients (chocolate, flavorings). A large
candy producer certainly could generate carloads, but LCL sounds right for a small
factory.

Tim O'

The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.

Boxcars would have delivered bagged sugar and most other ingredients, though maybe a refrigerator car for creams. The packaging materials would likely also be delivered by boxcars. Assuming that this or other similar candy factories shipped out to small stores on line crates of candies, they likely would have gone REA, unless a large a distributor needed LCL service. Flavorings could have moved via refrigerator cars returning for further loads. Would cocoa beans be delivered in refrigerator cars acting as insulated boxcars returning to their home road?

Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid? It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric?

Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms
South of Mike Brock


Re: ORERs

mark_landgraf
 

I suspect the accountants may have driven the periodic changes in the remaining cars in the fleet. While most of the cars that were coming off the road were fully depreciated, there was still the need of the accountants to know the peeiodic value of the whole fleet. 

Periodic could be weekly, monthly or quarterly, depending on the rr. 

In some cases, when an aging fleet starts costing more to maintain than the revenue it can generate, certainly the accountants would start arguing for retirement. 

In 2017, our 1100 vehicle fleet, we retire a vehicle when the maintenace costs exceed 2/3 of the replacement cost. I suspect that most of the rrs had a  fleet mgt plan of some sort‎. 

Mark Landgraf
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 12:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ORERs

 

Bob

My reply was really directed to Ike's post but I had not seen it,
only your reply...

Anyway I thought of an EXCELLENT reason why ALL railroads were very interested
in the exact number of freight cars they owned - Per Diem! There had better be
an account of every single car's whereabouts at midnight every night and if they
were offline, the account had better be paid!

Tim



Tim,

You have me there. I should have said, "if it wasn't important for the number of cars in a series to be accurate, why was it tracked in the ORER?" My response was in reply to George Eichelberger's post of April 8, 2017. Apparently the Southern didn't care too much about the accuracy of the listings of cars being taken out of service. The GN did, dutifully counting down the numbers of GN truss rod cars, despite their wholesale retirement in the postwar years.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND



Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Paul Krueger
 

The Milwaukee tried to hit the factory with locomotives and freight cars more than a few times!

Paul

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

erieblt2
 

We have a model of the factory on out layout.  See PSMRE website.  Sorry, its truck served! Bill S.


From: "'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 3:05:49 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

 


The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial  II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.

 

Boxcars would have delivered bagged sugar and most other ingredients, though maybe a refrigerator car for creams.  The packaging materials would likely also be delivered by boxcars.  Assuming that this or other similar candy factories shipped out to small stores on line crates of candies, they likely would have gone REA, unless a large a distributor needed LCL service.  Flavorings could have moved via refrigerator cars returning for further loads.  Would cocoa beans be delivered in refrigerator cars acting as insulated boxcars returning to their home road? 

 

Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid?  It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric? 

 

Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms

South of Mike Brock




Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

gary laakso
 

The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial  II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.

 

Boxcars would have delivered bagged sugar and most other ingredients, though maybe a refrigerator car for creams.  The packaging materials would likely also be delivered by boxcars.  Assuming that this or other similar candy factories shipped out to small stores on line crates of candies, they likely would have gone REA, unless a large a distributor needed LCL service.  Flavorings could have moved via refrigerator cars returning for further loads.  Would cocoa beans be delivered in refrigerator cars acting as insulated boxcars returning to their home road? 

 

Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid?  It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric? 

 

Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms

South of Mike Brock


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Tim O'Connor
 

So since the GN cars were not true USRA clones, does that make them
prototypical foobies? :-)

Tim O'Connor

Bill, you might be thinking of our #10400 Series kits for GN DS boxcars, but these are different than the USRA clone.

Thank You.
Andrew Dahm
===================

Which is the reason Accurail never tooled a 7/8 end for their kit; many of the "clones" were reduced in height to 8'-7" IH instead of 9'-0", since many of the railroads felt the USRA cars were too tall.

Dennis Storzek


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <dahminator68@...> wrote :

Bill, you might be thinking of our #10400 Series kits for GN DS boxcars, but these are different than the USRA clone.

Thank You.
Andrew Dahm
===================

Which is the reason Accurail never tooled a 7/8 end for their kit; many of the "clones" were reduced in height to 8'-7" IH instead of 9'-0", since many of the railroads felt the USRA cars were too tall.

Dennis Storzek


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

dahminator68
 

Hello Bill & Tim:   Westerfield does not yet make the USRA clone with 7/8 ends, but the patterns for it are being worked on.  We will certainly make an announcement about this car when we get it ready.

Bill, you might be thinking of our #10400 Series kits for GN DS boxcars, but these are different than the USRA clone.

Thank You.
Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels.gmail.com

On Monday, April 10, 2017, 10:13 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

I am fairly certain that Westerfield offers the post-war 7/8 GN USRA clone.


I was one of the lucky ones with Andy Carlson's castings. I have his 50-foot steel rebuild using the old Walther's 50-ft SS underframe with fishbelly cnetersill. Mine is Orange & Green with DF and delineators. I also have two models since offered by Sunshine, the Pratt trussed SS 40-foot boxcar that built into a very nice model and one the GN's Plywood cars. This required Detail Associates 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and Red Caboose roof. Mine has orange sides and black ends and roof.

Bill Welch


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale

Corey Fischer
 

Jared, I'd be willing to pick up 2, 3 and 5. 

Thanks
Corey

On Apr 10, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Jared Harper harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale--Vols. 1-3, and 5.  $17.50 each plus shipping.  They are in excellent condition with a little darkening along the spine when they were smoked in our house fire.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 3060706-543-8821



Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale

Jared Harper
 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedias for sale--Vols. 1-3, and 5.  $17.50 each plus shipping.  They are in excellent condition with a little darkening along the spine when they were smoked in our house fire.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 3060706-543-8821



PHOTO HELP NEEDED YET AGAIN

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I am seeking photos of the SP&S flat cars in the 32005 -32054 series. This is the Tichey flat car for the NC$ StL.. I did this kit years ago for the SP&S although I believed at that time that the car was not quite accurate for tht road. I was going to change the car to NC&StL but someone convinced me that the car is indeed accurate.

Thanks for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, have you published photos of your plywood box with the DA ends?
I am very interested to know what that looks like. :-) What do you think
of the Intermountain plywood box? (Other than the bottom sill, which I
know has to be replaced.)

Tim O'Connor

I am fairly certain that Westerfield offers the post-war 7/8 GN USRA clone.

I was one of the lucky ones with Andy Carlson's castings. I have his 50-foot steel rebuild using the old Walther's 50-ft SS underframe with fishbelly centersill. Mine is Orange & Green with DF and delineators. I also have two models since offered by Sunshine, the Pratt trussed SS 40-foot boxcar that built into a very nice model and one the GN's Plywood cars. This required Detail Associates 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and Red Caboose roof. Mine has orange sides and black ends and roof.

Bill Welch


Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?

Bill Welch
 

I am fairly certain that Westerfield offers the post-war 7/8 GN USRA clone.

I was one of the lucky ones with Andy Carlson's castings. I have his 50-foot steel rebuild using the old Walther's 50-ft SS underframe with fishbelly cnetersill. Mine is Orange & Green with DF and delineators. I also have two models since offered by Sunshine, the Pratt trussed SS 40-foot boxcar that built into a very nice model and one the GN's Plywood cars. This required Detail Associates 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and Red Caboose roof. Mine has orange sides and black ends and roof.

Bill Welch


rebuilt X29's (was re: 40 Year Old Cars)

Tim O'Connor
 



Does this mean that the PRR rebuilt "X29" box cars with NEW underframes? I ask because
many of the rebuilt X29 classes lasted into the late 1970's if not the 1980's - long past the 40
year old limit.

Tim O'Connor




I have a note (unfortunately without a reference) that says in 1974 a rule was enacted that prohibited cars in interchange
with underframes over 40 years old if built before July 1, 1974. Was there an earlier rule prohibiting cars (I assume based
on the age of their underframes) over forty years old in interchange?
Bob Chaparro

====================



No, not that I'm aware of. The Soo Line still had one of their 1920 built boxcars listed in the ORER in 1971; 51 years of age.

Dennis Storzek

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