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Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?
Bill Welch
Tim, here is photo of my GN Plywood model. Going on memory Andy only offered the doors and sides. In addition to DA ends it looks like I used their ladders. Mostly I used CDS Dry Transfers applied to decal substrait. An intersting detail on these cars was the used of drop grabs on the left end of the sides, the left end of which was a Bracket. For this part I used the now discontinued Overland bracket.
The other two models built from Andy's casting are also there if you look around. Bill Welch
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Re: ORERs
Dennis Storzek
---In STMFC@..., <mark_landgraf@...> wrote : It's the accountants telling operations when portions of the fleet are worthless and are at the end of their lives. After which any serious repairs cause the car to be white lined. Mark ========================= But not at the time the depreciation ended, because I doubt they had to run a forty year depreciation schedule. After the car is depreciated down to it's scrap value, it's essentially free, until it needs major repairs, and those were looked at as cost of upgrades vs. potential additional life. The fact remains, though, that the company needed to know what they owned at any given time, if for no other reason than to set the asset value of the company. Dennis Storzek
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Dennis Storzek
---In STMFC@..., <rwitt_2000@...> wrote : FWIW the NH and BAR "potato" cars from the early 1950s were classed XIH so they were considered a box car insulated with heaters. I can't recall other examples. Bob Witt ================ The Soo Line insulated some 40' wood sheathed automobile cars in the fifties, which made them XI's; ten in 1954 for use in wet pulp service (so the bales wouldn't freeze to the cars.) and 15 in 1958 with wood plug doors(!) assigned to Campbell Soup Co. Dennis Storzek
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
rwitt_2000
FWIW the NH and BAR "potato" cars from the early 1950s were classed XIH so they were considered a box car insulated with heaters. I can't recall other examples.
Here's a link to a NHRATA forum discussion about these cars: http://thenhrhtanewhavenrailroadforum.yuku.com/topic/8135#.WOxTrY61tmA Bob Witt
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Re: ORERs
mark_landgraf
Tim Several things come into play. We've all seen trust plates on various freight cars. In that case the bank owned the car. Many new cars from ACF, Pullman Standard, Greenville, etc were financed. Cars built by home road car shops were more typically fully owned by the railroad. The later cars would be depreciated over a 10 to 20 year depreciation schedule. Just like your personal auto, a 10 year old freight car isn't worth what you paid for it. This factors into the overall capital value of the fleet, and would have been used in the ICC Valuation of rolling stock report. Financed cars would also have been depreciated, but probably at a rate that was the same as the finance period. It's the accountants telling operations when portions of the fleet are worthless and are at the end of their lives. Afterwhich any serious repairs cause the car to be white lined. Mark
Bob
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Yeah, but Hershey was a huge company, that ran their own car fleet. Hop in your time machine, Dennis ? Is that really the same question ? RB's were around in the 1930's for wine, beer, chocolate, and other products. I don't know of any in railroad company service (were there XI's?) but maybe there were some. In the 1930's if you needed an insulated box car, you used a reefer most of the time. I think it was Tony (or someone) who said that 20% or so of PFE carloadings were non-refrigerated items. But a candy company could BUY Hershey's Chocolate - in fact, BULK cocoa and chocolates are definitely types of product sold by Hershey's to third parties - chocolate OEM's if you will. These might arrive in HERX RB insulated box cars. Tim O'Connor
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Re: ORERs
Ok, Mark, you have me stumped. What does depreciation of cars have to do with any of this? Tim O' > Mark Landgraf wrote Monday, April 10, 2017 6:48 PM > I suspect the accountants may have driven the periodic changes in the > remaining cars in the fleet. While most of the cars that were coming off > the road were fully depreciated, there was still the need of the accountants > to know the periodic value of the whole fleet.
Bob
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Dennis Storzek
---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote : Say WHAT?? There was no such thing as an insulated box car (i.e. RB bunkerless reefer) ??? I have shots of wood sheathed steam era Hershey's RB's. The "L" refers to loading devices, which really came into their own with forklifts and pallets. Prior to that time loads were braced or packed in such a way to avoid load shifting. Tim O' ======================= Yeah, but Hershey was a huge company, that ran their own car fleet. Hop in your time machine, try ordering an RB from the local railroad and see what you get. Dennis Storzek
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Dennis Storzek
---In STMFC@..., <vasa0vasa@...> wrote :
Would such factories have their own power plant or would they have used the local grid? It could be a function of the age of machinery in the plant: steam v. electric?
Gary Laakso thinking of candies while working on tax forms South of Mike Brock ====================== Likely not a power plant for electric generation... and steam powered line shafts were history in the WWI era in most industries. But food processing needs lots of steam; for the cooking kettles, and also hot water and steam for cleaning the equipment. Not sure oil fired power boilers were all that common before the late fifties, and coal was available up there. Dennis Storzek
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Re: ORERs
Schuyler Larrabee
Tim has hit on the most important reason that railroads would care about how
many of each car class remained on their rosters: Not per diem per se, but ACCOUNTING. Railroads employed legions of accountants for all sorts of purposes, one of which was to keep track of how much the railroad was worth as a going enterprise. A lot of that assessment has to do with the physical plant, both the stationary plant and the rolling stock. I think it was Dennis mentioned that the ICC Valuation reports were required to be updated until sometime in the late 50s, early 60s. In order to keep a valuation up to date, you would have to know how many of each type of car is still a viable investment. And then we get into the discussion of when a car isn't covering its costs to own. Another reason to keep tabs on the cars you have in your fleet. But for me, the point was to find out how many cars were in service after 1950. And it turns out that this is important for a model manufacturer to know so as to judge whether it's worth producing a model. And it was quite effective for my purposes, thank you very much. Too bad the Southern didn't take this more seriously. I wonder what the ICC had to say about it. Schuyler From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 12:46 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ORERs Bob My reply was really directed to Ike's post but I had not seen it, only your reply... Anyway I thought of an EXCELLENT reason why ALL railroads were very interested in the exact number of freight cars they owned - Per Diem! There had better be an account of every single car's whereabouts at midnight every night and if they were offline, the account had better be paid! Tim Tim, You have me there. I should have said, "if it wasn't important for the number of cars in a series to be accurate, why was it tracked in the ORER?" My response was in reply to George Eichelberger's post of April 8, 2017. Apparently the Southern didn't care too much about the accuracy of the listings of cars being taken out of service. The GN did, dutifully counting down the numbers of GN truss rod cars, despite their wholesale retirement in the postwar years. Regards, Bob Heninger Minot, ND
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
Gary,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I would think that cream would be locally sources and would arrive via a motor carrier and not on the rails. I also do not believe that cocoa beans would require insulated shipment. Most likely these are shipped in bags. If this was coming in off of freighters at the Port of Tacoma, these may also have been shipped via motor carrier. Not knowing exactly where the candy plant was/is in relationship with the port this could also be a rather short railroad move. As for utilities powering the plant, I will leave that up to those that know the territory better than I. Cheers & Happy Modeling, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
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Re: ORERs
mark_landgraf
I suspect the accountants may have driven the periodic changes in the remaining cars in the fleet. While most of the cars that were coming off the road were fully depreciated, there was still the need of the accountants to know the peeiodic value of the whole fleet. Periodic could be weekly, monthly or quarterly, depending on the rr. In some cases, when an aging fleet starts costing more to maintain than the revenue it can generate, certainly the accountants would start arguing for retirement. In 2017, our 1100 vehicle fleet, we retire a vehicle when the maintenace costs exceed 2/3 of the replacement cost. I suspect that most of the rrs had a fleet mgt plan of some sort. Mark Landgraf
Bob Tim,
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Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?
Todd Sullivan
Well, my 1952 ORER says the GN USRA originals and clones had the same height to the eaves, running board and top of the brake staff, and the same cuft capacity (3098). The only difference is that I can see from the dimensions is that the clones had an extreme width 2" wider at 10'-1" and the extreme width point occurred at a different height from the rail (12'-6" vs 11'-7" on the originals).
Guess I'll wait on the ends if Andrew is working on them. Todd Sullivan
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
gary laakso
Thanks, Tim O’!
Gary Laakso south of Mike Brock
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 6:54 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Gary
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Re: GN USRA boxcars, was Re: What can I model?
Todd Sullivan
Tim O' wrote:
Does Accurail offer its USRA DS box car with 7/8 ends?? I don't know if Accurail does, but Westerfield offers a 7/8 corrugated end that looks like it should fit their USRA DS kit. I'm going to try those soon to see if they do. Todd Sullivan
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Say WHAT?? There was no such thing as an insulated box car (i.e. RB bunkerless reefer) ??? I have shots of wood sheathed steam era Hershey's RB's. The "L" refers to loading devices, which really came into their own with forklifts and pallets. Prior to that time loads were braced or packed in such a way to avoid load shifting. Tim O'
Jeff,
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
SUVCWORR@...
Jeff,
I would think heat in the summer melting the bars was more of an issue than shelf life. RBL cars did not yet exist. Reefers where used to keep the contents cool just from all the insulation. Express reefers reduced the likelyhood of the car standing in multiple yards and the load being lost.
Rich Orr
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Jeffrey White
Gary, I can't speak for Brown and Haley, but I've done a lot of
research on Hollywood Brands Candy in Centralia, IL. They made the
$100,000 bar and I think the Zero candy bar.� It was built in a large building that was previously an envelope factory.� It was served by the IC and it had it's own power plant.� I have a photograph of express reefers spotted at the plant in the era covered by this list.�� I have been unable to find out if they routinely shipped the product in express reefers though.� I don't know what the shelf life of the candy was in those days.� Perhaps it had to go by express service? Jeff White Alma, IL
On 4/10/2017 5:05 PM, 'gary laakso'
vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory
Gary
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Cocoa beans did not need refrigeration or insulation. Hershey had insulated cars for its PRODUCTS, which did need insulation. Deliveries to the candy factory should include packaging (specialty cardboard papers), inks (for decorating candy boxes), sugars (cane sugar or syrup, or corn syrup), fats (butter, oils), possibly milk (for milk chocolate) and the other ingredients (chocolate, flavorings). A large candy producer certainly could generate carloads, but LCL sounds right for a small factory. Tim O'
The Milwaukee Road served the Brown & Haley candy factory in Tacoma, WA, a substantial building of maybe 5 stories and there is a partial picture of it on page 43 of A Northwest Rail Pictorial II using pictures from Warren W. Wing.
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Re: ORERs
mark_landgraf
I suspect the accountants may have driven the periodic changes in the remaining cars in the fleet. While most of the cars that were coming off the road were fully depreciated, there was still the need of the accountants to know the peeiodic value of the whole fleet. Periodic could be weekly, monthly or quarterly, depending on the rr. In some cases, when an aging fleet starts costing more to maintain than the revenue it can generate, certainly the accountants would start arguing for retirement. In 2017, our 1100 vehicle fleet, we retire a vehicle when the maintenace costs exceed 2/3 of the replacement cost. I suspect that most of the rrs had a fleet mgt plan of some sort. Mark Landgraf
Bob
Tim,
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