Date   

Rock Island shops

Paul Doggett <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Hi Guys

Which Rock Island shop(s) rebuilt/repainted their cars in the late forties early fifties.

Thank you Paul Doggett UK


Re: BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

Steve SANDIFER
 

My 4 pack A of BLI 6K tank arrived today. I wish I knew more about the prototypes, but these are nice models. They are slightly smaller than the Tangent acid cars. Put it next to an Atlas 11K chemical tank and - Wow – it makes the Atlas look massive (it should, double the capacity). All running boards are simulated wood grain, though for some reason the grain stops just short of the ends of the boards. For those with the railings around the dome, they are slightly larger than Tangents, but very slightly. The railings are the same size as Tangent. Couplers appear to be Kadee #5, held in with a screw if you wish to replace with scale size. Trucks are a little “flat” and the metal wheelsets look like those on an Atlas cars.  It does roll well. Printing is excellent. It comes with molded uncoupler levers, brake hoses, and underbody details. There is a seam down the center of the top, a mold seam I presume, but could it have been a weld. If it is just a mold seam, they should have removed it.

 

My set came with the Mathieson (SHPX) 1940; Ethyl (EBAX) 1944; Stauffer (SHPX) 1947; and Brown (BCX) 1930. They are listed as 6K ACF type 27 ICC-105.

The 1950 ORER lists the Ethyl car for Anti-Knock compound.

The Brown number is shown but without reference to contents except that it would hold 48,215 pounds of water.

Stauffer had a few cars this size for Liquid Chlorine, but wearing their reporting marks.

Mathieson also had none under their reporting marks.

In the SHPX section, the 3310 and 3600 are listed as ICC 105A 300W type.

Kaminski’s ACF tank car book has a photo p. 17 of EBAX 6161 a 6K ICC 105A300-W for Anti-Knock. P. 134 has another number 842 with a 1944 date.  The one on p. 134 has railing around the dome curved up like the tank – the model has straight railings.

P. 51 shows Mathieson 3310, the same as modeled, as a 5.9K ICC105A300. I don’t know the correct blue/green color, but it is bright!

Kaminski does not have a photo of the Stauffer or Brown car in that book.

They will certainly add color (except for Brown) and variation in my consists.

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 10:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] BLI 6K Tank Car photos posted

 

 

 

On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:31 PM, matt.dowd4@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Does anyone have any more information about the prototypes BLI chose? I'm curious to see if any of these cars would have been painted in other, more plain looking lease schemes such as GATC or UTLX. I was considering buying some of these models but the paint schemes aren't all that flattering in my opinion. Thanks in advance for the help

 

Matthew,

I’ll take a shot at answering your question. 

 

Many, but not all, of the new BLI models are based on as-built cars in the schemes delivered from ACF’s Milton, Pa. plant. These follow the ACF paint specs as denoted in ACF bills of materials that are available for review at the Barriger National Railroad Library (a part of the St. Louis Mercantile Library). 

 

A relatively few number of these prototype cars were plain-jane black with simple white stencils when delivered during the 1930s into the 1940s. The majority were painted in colorful schemes with numerous cars equipped with what ACF termed as "mud guards" to reduce the grime otherwise collected on the lower section of the jacket due to wheel splash. Other cars may have been repainted black at some later date, however, in-service photos have not yet been located to confirm this. If anyone has such photos, please make them available to BLI.

 

Several owners continued to paint their tank cars in colorful schemes for many years. Hooker consistently applied their colorful orange/white/black scheme during the span of the steam era. Other companies keeping their spiffy paint scheme were Pittsburgh Plate Glass (PPGX) and Southern Alkali (SACX), that in 1951 together became Columbia Southern. Similarly, the Ethyl Corp. (EBAX) cars for anti-knock compound were typically gray and black with colorful company trademarks. 

 

Regarding GATX or UTLX, none of these Type 27 chlorine tank cars for were built for them. To become GATX or UTLX would have required the owner to sell the cars to these large tank car leasing companies, who in turn may have painted them in their normal black with white stencils (GATC) or yellow stencils (UTLX). Perhaps that occurred, but again in-service photos are needed to confirm.

 

The plain-jane black/white schemes would more likely be cars owned by Shippers’ Car Line (SHPX), who by the postwar era may have repainted some of their cars black with white stencils. Approximately 50 SHPX cars built in 1946-1947 for lease to Mathieson Chemicals were painted black with white stencils, but they were on long-term lease and lettered with relatively large Mathieson company graphics.

 

During the 1950s many of the PSMX Penn Salt cars went to Shippers’ Car Line, so the challenge is to locate photos of them.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 

 


Re: Asleep at the Wheel Re: Broadway Limited 6K tank cars

Bill Vaughn
 

Got my 4 pack today.  Nice looking cars.

Bill Vaughn


On Thursday, April 13, 2017 7:26 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Sort of answering my own query but one of our members put me in touch w/a hobby shop. I sent them a message telling them what I wanted and they responded saying they "had me covered" and that models were expected any day now. They said to tell my friends so here you go:

WALT'S TRAINS
408-431-1660
866-924-3044 TOLL FREE

Bill Welch




Re: Asleep at the Wheel Re: Broadway Limited 6K tank cars

Bill Welch
 

Sort of answering my own query but one of our members put me in touch w/a hobby shop. I sent them a message telling them what I wanted and they responded saying they "had me covered" and that models were expected any day now. They said to tell my friends so here you go:

WALT'S TRAINS
408-431-1660
866-924-3044 TOLL FREE

Bill Welch


Re: Packing Journal Boxes

Randy Hees
 

There are some museums that use solid Babbit bearings regularly and are not scared of them....  The system calls for a decent bearing and journal, and packing that is turned "inward" so thread are unlikely to be pulled between the babbit and the journal.  The coils shown in the drawing would do exactly that.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
(where we regularly operate cars with solid bearings.... and who sometimes repacks them)


Re: what are these cars?

Douglas Harding
 

Reminds me of the horse & mule car that Red Ball offered many years ago. Here’s a link to a photo of the model https://www.flickr.com/photos/123800523@N03/14383237201

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Asleep at the Wheel Re: Broadway Limited 6K tank cars

Bill Welch
 

It appears these are now landing in hobby shops. It seems like I requested a couple of specific cars from someone here on the list that is a BL dealer who planned to breakup the four-packs. Then again I may have dreamed I made this request. If this is wringing any bells with anyone, please send me a message offline to fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com


Alternatively, I know it is not Friday Noon but if you are a BL Dealer of broken bricks, please feel free to send me a message offline to the same address above. I think I am most interested in Virginia Chemical, Penn Salt, and Columbia Southern.


Thank you,

Bill Welch


what are these cars?

Elliot Fishbein
 

Good Afternoon,

I have posted a photo to the files section, 14-85a, Norwich, NY. This photo was found while digitizing the archives of O&W Historical Society.  The photo was taken sometime around1900 on the O&W.  I believe it was in Norwich, NY.  The cars in question are on the right, surrounding a reefer.  There seems to be a single, long word on the side of the cars.  Pennsylvania?  Since the picture was passed around at a local NMRA meet a few months ago, there has been considerable “discussion.”  Can any of you folks shed any light on what these cars are?

Thanks,

Elliot Fishbein

Cochecton, NY


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


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Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Rob M.
 

In the CASO freight consist spreadsheets posted last year were two boxcars with products that appear to be destined for Wilbur Chocolates in Lititz PA: 

Interesting cars, the NKP was an uncommon ACF lightweight car and the MILW the common Milwaukee road Howe truss single sheathed car.  


NKP 20256 B 31 TONS DAIRY PRODUCTS TOLEDO AIR LINE JCT. COLLINWOOD LITITZ 8-Aug-44
CMStP 706052 B 30 TONS SUGAR TOLEDO AIR LINE JCT
ELYRIA LITITZ 9-Nov-44  

Rob Mondichak


Packing Journal Boxes

rwitt_2000
 

We often discuss the topic of journals, etc. here is a PRR document ca. 1944 describing how to pack them. It seems to cover most of the typical journal sizes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/192155761671?ul_noapp=true


Bob Witt




Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Kubanick wrote:

 
During the early-mid 1950's I lived near the D.L.Clark Company, makers of the Clark Bar and located on Pittsburgh's North Side.

   Ah yes, makers of the Clark Bar, one of my very favorite candy bars. And of course very associated with Pittsburgh for me.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

James E Kubanick
 

During the early-mid 1950's I lived near the D.L.Clark Company, makers of the Clark Bar and located on Pittsburgh's North Side.. At that time, I would often see some very colorful cars coming out of PRR's Island Avenue yard, destined for this plant, a short distance away. There were Baker's Chocolate insulated tank cars dressed in white and Baker's logo, and two bay covered hoppers painted in Jack Frost Sugars  blue and white colors and their logo.

The plant, itself, was an interesting structure as their siding off the PRR was on the second story and crossed a local street on a girder bridge that went directly into the plant.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown




On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 10:31 PM, "Fred_Swa@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Salinas, Ca had chocolate factories Nestle and Peter Paul to name two.  There seemed to always have a tank car at their plant. mostly SP with the S and diamond on the dome.  It was made noticeable the few times there wasn't one.  They shipped in syrup even though Spreckels the town and factory wasn't 2 miles it was so close.
Fred Swanson



Re: Wabash style freight lettering

Allen Ferguson
 


Re: ORERs

railsnw@...
 

Hi Ike,

I'd be interested in seeing examples of the forms sent to the ICC.

Rich Wilkens


Re: Age of Steam Era Freightcars

John Barry
 

Dennis,

As a current transportation regulator, although for aviation, I can state that the non-emergency regulations are required to have a public comment period and those comments must be resolved by the regulator and the comment and resolution placed in the public record.  That record is easier to find for today's rules with the internet, but the basics of administrative law applied during this list's period of interest.  So yes, industry is very likely to have commented on and shaped the FRA rules.  
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 5:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Age of Steam Era Freightcars

 
In the recent "ORER thread", the statement was made that USRA cars began to disappear "because they were forty years old." That led several of us to object that the age limit on freightcars is a child of the FRA, and therefore far in the future to the interests on this list. Someone then asked if the AAR interchange rules had an age based prohibition on car in interchange, and I said no. I am now finding how hard it is to prove a negative, but no one has cited an actual rule to that effect, either.

It did lead me to dig out a Soo Line railroad document I have titled OFFICE OF CHIEF MECHANICAL OFFICER - FREIGHT CARS OWNED - AS OF JANUARY 1, 1962. You'll have to forgive that it is one year past our 1960 cut-off, but I feel the data is applicable to our era of interest. The Soo Line was one of the smaller of the class one railroads, and is likely typical of the industry as a whole. It had an easy to understand medium size car fleet (15,000 cars at this time) and rarely renumbered anything.

The document has the feel of a periodic report; likely yearly. It lists each and every group of cars, their dimensions, built date, and two columns for "RECOMMENDATIONS" headed "FOR RETIREMENT" and "NOT FOR RETIREMENT" Here are the pertinent details I gleaned, by car type:

AUTOMIBILE, For Retirement:
11 cars (all remaining) built 1915, 47 years of age
1 car (all remaining) built 1917, 45 years of age.
 40 cars built 1924, 38 years of age, 58 NFR (Not for retirement)

BOXCARS, For Retirement:
5 cars (all) built 1913, 49 years of age
3 cars (all) built 1916, 46 years of age
1 car (ALL) built 1917, 45 years of age
4 cars (all) built 1919, 43 years of age
13 cars (all) built 1920, 42 years ! of age
7 cars (all) built 1921, 41 years of age
11 cars (all) built 1923, 39 years of age
60 cars built 1926, 36 years of age, but 386 NFR
40 cars built 1928, 34 years of age, but 326 NFR

FLATCARS, For Retirement:
23 cars (all) built 1912, 50 years of age
21 cars (all) built 1913, 49 years of age
40 cars built 1921, 41 years of age, but 64 NFR.

GONDOLA, for retirement:
6 cars (all), built 1916, 46 years of age
40 cars built 1921, 41 years of age, but 296 NFR
60 cars built 1923, 39 years of age, but 112 NFR
40 cars built 1927, 35 years of age, but 156 NFR

HOPPER, For Retirement:
9 cars (all) built 1913-16, 46-49 years of age
Oldest cars NFR built 1926, 36 years of age

ORE, For Retirement: (these are interesting)
50 cars built 1906-07, 55-56 years of age, but 73 NFR

Those fifty six year old ore cars are former DSS&A on the Marquette Range, there are an additional 138 cars built in 1910 that are not being retired. This traffic was totally captive to the Soo (DSS&A) and many of these cars still rode on archbar trucks, into the sixties. It was obvious that the mines the South Shore served were playing out ( the last ore was shipped over the DSS&A dock in 1966 or 67, IIRC) and the railroad was simply not going to invest in new equipment.

The Soo had much the same situation on the Gogebic Range on the former Wisconsin Central, although, since this was joint service with the C&NW, the cars had been brought up to interchange standards.However, the oldest of those cars also dated to 1910, and none were newer than 1919. The joint service with the NP on the Cyuna Range got the newer (1925 and 1930) 70 ton cars.

What does this all mean? Well, one thing I take away is that the general service cars (box, flat, and gons) seem to be dying of obsolescence, rather than age, an an age right around forty years. The ca! rs are too small, and two little capacity (40 and 50 ton) for current needs. Even as they were clearing the last of the pre-WWI boxcars off the roster, they had been buying and building new 50' boxcars in their own shops, and were just two years away from launching into a fifteen year program of building modern 50', 70 ton cars with ten foot doors. The little 40 ton, 40' x 8' IH grain boxes from an earlier era were simply no longer useful.

I also wonder about the FRA age limit of 1974. Knowing that these regulations are normally open for comment and negotiated with the industry being regulated, it appears the numbers chosen (50 years in 1974, decreasing to 40 years in 1983) were chosen specifically because they would cause the railroad industry little pain; they were essentially already in compliance, with few exceptions.

But, of course, that's all in the future.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Wabash style freight lettering

Tim O'Connor
 


not available from railfonts.com ?



Hi

I am wondering whether there is any commercially available version of the heavy 'block' serif  lettering as used to spell out the 'Wabash' name on freight cars ?  I model bits and pieces in TT so decals are not available.

I see from some posts that they used  18" high letters and at some point, moved to 33", unsure if that was all.

Regards,

Ben Scanlon

London, England


Wabash style freight lettering

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hi


I am wondering whether there is any commercially available version of the heavy 'block' serif  lettering as used to spell out the 'Wabash' name on freight cars ?  I model bits and pieces in TT so decals are not available. 

I see from some posts that they used  18" high letters and at some point, moved to 33", unsure if that was all. 

Regards, 

Ben Scanlon

London, England



Re: Car Types for a Brown & Haley Candy Factory

Fred_Swa@...
 

Salinas, Ca had chocolate factories Nestle and Peter Paul to name two.  There seemed to always have a tank car at their plant. mostly SP with the S and diamond on the dome.  It was made noticeable the few times there wasn't one.  They shipped in syrup even though Spreckels the town and factory wasn't 2 miles it was so close.
Fred Swanson


Re: ORERs

devansprr
 

Dennis,

I suspect what we are learning - but we do not yet have any proof, is that there is a chance that the car counts for cars in the process of being retired, in the ORER's, if issued quarterly, and if submitted for publication in the ORER by the RR's based on their ICC valuation reports, could be zero to nine months out of date. (i.e. we do not know if an ORER published on January 1, is based on ICC submittals due 12/31, or the previous 6/30.)

Some roads may have gone to the effort to keep the retiring car class ORER populations more up to date than the ICC, but I kind of doubt it, because there is little or even no downside to over-counting cars in classes in the process of being retired (many of those cars may already have been on deadlines anyway - which makes an interesting point of why model cars that the ORER shows were rapidly being retired during the modelers timeframe?)

At the same time it makes complete sense that cars ordered but not yet constructed, might appear in an ORER even before they appeared on the ICC valuation report. NOT doing that would cause problems for at least some clerks, and others.

I would note that the PRR separately published an extensive list of every type of North American box car during WWII specifically to identify where those cars could not go because of low clearances. One would think that data would be updated before new cars were delivered, although the PRR's instructions to yard personnel was that if a class of car (defined by a range of numbers) was not listed in the book, PRR yard personnel needed to measure the car shortly after it was received in interchange and before it flowed through the system.

Specific to the PRR, the St. Louis to Pittsburgh line had some restricted clearances during WWII, and many cars (especially western road box cars) that interchanged to the PRR along that line were first moved north to the Chicago-Pittsburgh line, before being routed into Pittsburgh. Such cars had an Oversize placard stapled to them so yard crews and conductors could quickly identify them. Also applies to empties heading west during WWII. Interesting challenge for model railroad yard crews...

The clearance issue raises an interesting point. I wonder if one reason cars being rebuilt were assigned new numbers was because new exterior dimensions might invalidate such clearance lists if their number remained the same?

When did the modern clearance "plates" become standardized?

Dave Evans

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