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Larry Smith
 

I'm in need of a Broadway Limited single 6000 gal tank, preferable undec and with out the platform for a kit bash to narrow gauge project.  Can anyone direct me to a source as they say they are available through the parts dept, but I was told no today.

Larry Smith


Re: Why bright colored reefers?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

As if the Canadian roads cared about this, both using freight car red for reefers well into the twentieth century. The CN did do some experiments with Aluminum paint in the thirties, I believe, and found that it helped, so long as the cars were clean, but the effect diminished as the cars got dirty. CN eventually went to light gray as being more cost effective.


    When I interviewed Earl Hopkins, retired CMO of PFE, he described a test done in the late 1940s by PFE, painting some ice car roofs aluminum and then instrumenting the car to see how it fared in service, compared to a then-standard BCR roof. Initially, he said, the results were dramatic in lower car interior temperature with the aluminum paint. But by the time the cars were in service a month, the dirt and grime on the roof reduced their performance to exactly that of BCR roofs. 
     In later years, with diesel locomotives universal, they did go to aluminum roof paint for mechanical cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Why bright colored reefers?

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <jekuban@...> wrote :

Also, bright colors tend to reflect the sun's rays, thus taking some stress off the insulation. Dark colors tend to absorb heat, causing the insulation to be less effective.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

As if the Canadian roads cared about this, both using freight car red for reefers well into the twentieth century. The CN did do some experiments with Aluminum paint in the thirties, I believe, and found that it helped, so long as the cars were clean, but the effect diminished as the cars got dirty. CN eventually went to light gray as being more cost effective.

The real reason why reefers were painted yellow / orange is like so many other things in railroading... "We've always done it that way."

Dennis Storzek


Re: Why bright colored reefers?

James E Kubanick
 

Also, bright colors tend to reflect the sun's rays, thus taking some stress off the insulation. Dark colors tend to absorb heat, causing the insulation to be less effective.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


On Sunday, April 16, 2017 10:42 PM, "randyhees@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bright reefer colors date back to the 1860's and the creation of "Fast Freight Lines" which were cars which could be interchanged in a time before the Master Car Builders Association (MCB, later the AAR) had rules for interchange, including daily per diem (rent) or rules for repairs and allowable costs associated with repairs.

The earliest lines the Red line, (on the Vanderbilt owned railroads, later the NYC) the Blue Line and such were painted bright colors to identify them but also as a marketing tool. 

In fact, the MCB was created out of meetings to create the Red Line, then as it became obvious the value that the converstations had, other non-Vanderbilt railroad people were invited to attend...   The Car-Builder's Dictionary was created so the members were using a common vocabulary for parts, and so the accountants could understand what they were being billed for.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City



Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Tim O'Connor
 

Recently in another discussion I learned about another product from 3M,
called Scotchcals. The reason I wonder if the SP&S letters were "cals"
rather than "lite" is because they never appear reflective in photos.
Even a fairly dirty Scotchlite letter will reflect light at the right angle.
Scotchcals were used in the 1960's but I don't know if they existed in the
1950's.

Tim O'Connor

Hi Ed,

I seem to recall that the reporting marks on that series of SP&S boxcars were applied in Scotchlite reflective material, which is why they accumulated dirt and dust and/or lost their white look more quickly than the painted lettering.

Todd Sullivan


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

Tim O'Connor
 


or the later DESPATCH steel reefers :-(



Too bad there is not an accurate model of MDT's most numerous wood-sheathed reefer.

Bill Welch


CB&Q roadbed and track

Eric Hansmann
 

Nelson Moyer returns to the Resin Car Works blog with the third part of his home CB&Q layout adventure. Roadbed and track are the focus of this latest installment.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/roadbed-and-track-layout-design-with-nelson-moyer-part-3/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

Bill Welch
 

Too bad there is not an accurate model of MDT's most numerous wood-sheathed reefer.

Bill Welch


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

Fred Jansz
 

And the scanned gov image is from a COPY of the original as you can see in the gov description. So there might be two color shifts; one of the film used to copy the original, one of the scanners profile. But I guess they know what they're doing, this is not an amateurs work.
I've ran all MDT color shots through Photoshop to get a kind of 'even' color while maintaining the 'perception' of a real life view (regarding sky an materials like stone, track, etc) and IMHO it's not the ususal PFE or Daylight orange. It resembles it but has a tad more yellow in it.
Fred Jansz


Re: Why bright colored reefers?

Randy Hees
 

Bright reefer colors date back to the 1860's and the creation of "Fast Freight Lines" which were cars which could be interchanged in a time before the Master Car Builders Association (MCB, later the AAR) had rules for interchange, including daily per diem (rent) or rules for repairs and allowable costs associated with repairs.

The earliest lines the Red line, (on the Vanderbilt owned railroads, later the NYC) the Blue Line and such were painted bright colors to identify them but also as a marketing tool. 

In fact, the MCB was created out of meetings to create the Red Line, then as it became obvious the value that the converstations had, other non-Vanderbilt railroad people were invited to attend...   The Car-Builder's Dictionary was created so the members were using a common vocabulary for parts, and so the accountants could understand what they were being billed for.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City


Re: Why bright colored reefers?

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Bright colors?................Why of course, advertising......Jim W.


On Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:11 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Chuck Peck wrote:

 
I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food  products?  

    Two of the PFE retirees I interviewed emphasized that employees were very aware that they were food cars. That was one reason PFE washed its cars until the mid-1950s.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Why bright colored reefers?

Tony Thompson
 

Chuck Peck wrote:

 
I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food  products?  

    Two of the PFE retirees I interviewed emphasized that employees were very aware that they were food cars. That was one reason PFE washed its cars until the mid-1950s.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Why bright colored reefers?

Tim O'Connor
 

Chuck

Making them "stand out" makes sense - everyone in the yard aware that the loaded
cars carried PERISHABLE lading, so maybe this aided expedited handling.


I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand
out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food
products?  Some other reason not to use the usual FCR colors? 
All I have is a couple of possibilities. Anyone have an actual answer?

Chuck Peck in FL


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

Tim O'Connor
 


The last one, MDT 5242 - is 5721.

Also let's all try to remember this is a SCANNED image from FILM. So the
apparent "color" isn't gospel. The photos overall have a kind of "washed
out" look to them, so I'm not sure that all spectra were treated equally.

Tim O'Connor



Roger Hinman wrote :
The photo I'm referring to is LC-USW36-603 taken by Delano in Apr 43; there are four met cars side by side:
ERDX 9149, MDT 6382, MDT 17424, MDT 5242; MDT 6382 is the car that is freshly painted. The car was just over six years old at this time but had been released in late 1936 in the "white" scheme.


Why bright colored reefers?

Charles Peck
 

I have been wondering about whybright colors were used on reefers.  Was it to make them stand

out in the yards to help get special handing?  Bright colors looked "cleaner" for food 

products?  Some other reason not to use the usual FCR colors?  

All I have is a couple of possibilities. Anyone have an actual answer?

Chuck Peck in FL


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

Bruce Smith
 

​Here is a link to the photo I think that Roger is describing. http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsac.1a34785/


The new car is clearly orange, although slightly more towards the yellow than the daylight orange of PFE.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al



From: STMFC@... on behalf of blindog blindog@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] color MDT reefers in the '40s    
 


http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsac.1a34780/

Pretty clear the color was yellow then.  While dirty, the overall carbody color matches the fresh paint patches.


Scott Chatfield



Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsac.1a34780/

Pretty clear the color was yellow then.  While dirty, the overall carbody color matches the fresh paint patches.


Scott Chatfield


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

ROGER HINMAN
 

The photo I'm referring to is LC-USW36-603 taken by Delano in Apr 43; there are four met cars side by side:

ERDX 9149, MDT 6382, MDT 17424, MDT 5242; MDT 6382 is the car that is freshly painted. The car was just over six years old at this time but had been released in late 1936 in the "white" scheme.


-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Apr 16, 2017 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] color MDT reefers in the '40s

 
indeed!

Roger, glad you're still with us.

you're referring to the second photo Don Burns references, right? Which car is freshly painted?

This batch of color photos retains red color - check out the border of the clock in the photo with the ends of 5 box cars.

Ed Mines


Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

ed_mines
 

indeed!


Roger, glad you're still with us.


you're referring to the second photo Don Burns references, right? Which car is freshly painted?


This batch of color photos retains red color - check out the border of the clock in the photo with the ends of 5 box cars.


Ed Mines



Re: color MDT reefers in the '40s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

While you might call it a slightly orangish yellow as opposed to lemon yellow, those cars are definitely not orange.


Scott Chatfield

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