Date   

Re: Work bench/table height?

Jack Burgess
 

Jim…

 

I have my workbench at 30” above the floor which is fine for some work like weathering. But I lower my chair 4” when cutting and assembling models. Custom jewelry makers have their workbenches  at 39” or so for the same reason (rather than lowering their chairs).

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:17 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Work bench/table height?

 

Hi,

 

  I'm going to move/rebuild/redefine my workbench.  Is there some kind of 'standard'

for how high a workbench surface should be relative to either the height of the chair

you are sitting on or the height of your elbow?

  Although this topic is off topic - I do intend to use the new workspace to build 

steam era freight cars ... is that good enough for the moderator?  (Yes, that's a

real question and I will "take it somewhere else" if the moderator says "not

here, please".


Shipper's Car Line (SHPX) Covered Hopper

Jim Betz
 

Hi,


  What products would have been shipped in an SHPX 2-bay covered

hopper?


  I typically associate such cars as "cement hoppers" which were usually

relatively short haul products (200 miles - or less) and were typically

RR owned cars such as SP, WP, GN, etc.  However I take note of the

fact that my experience with/knowledge of cement hoppers is primarily

for the West Coast.

  If this car (Intermountain makes them and yes they were produced

before the cut off date of this list).  

  I'm speculating in my head that perhaps RR owned cement hoppers

weren't "the rule rather than the exception" on the East Coast and so

having marks such as SHPX was actually quite common in that

part of the country?

                                                                                    - Jim B.


RPM updates

Eric Hansmann
 

I was updating the RPM calendar this morning and noticed a busy few weeks coming up, starting right now! A brief review of events has been posted on the DesignBuildOp blog to help people plan out the next few months. Prep those models for display and bring another modeler that hasn’t experienced an RPM. Here’s the link.

 

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/28/rpm-updates-2/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


Re: Work bench/table height?

"markstation01@yahoo.com <markstation01@...>
 


Work bench/table height?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,


  I'm going to move/rebuild/redefine my workbench.  Is there some kind of 'standard'

for how high a workbench surface should be relative to either the height of the chair

you are sitting on or the height of your elbow?

  Although this topic is off topic - I do intend to use the new workspace to build 

steam era freight cars ... is that good enough for the moderator?  (Yes, that's a

real question and I will "take it somewhere else" if the moderator says "not

here, please".


  ===> Although some of you will be tempted to discuss "related topics" to

           my question such as lighting, size, tools, storage methods, etc.

           I am not really interested in answers of that type and politely request

           that you not reply to this post with those answers (start your own

           off topic, please).

                                                                                                      - Jim B.


Re: Looking for Box Car Advert.

Todd Horton
 


I forgot to include this one
 
Todd Horton



From: "bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Looking for Box Car Advert.

 
I'm looking for an ad that had a boxcar and listing of all the places traveled and commodities carried in a single year.

I know I've seen it in a couple of different places and it might have been an eastern road.

It was quite distinctive and useful (I remember it listing cigarettes from virginia or north carolina).

Can anyone help me locate this as I can't remember where I've seen it.

thanks
bill



Re: Looking for Box Car Advert.

Todd Horton
 


Could this be what you had in mind?
 
Todd Horton



From: "bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Looking for Box Car Advert.

 
I'm looking for an ad that had a boxcar and listing of all the places traveled and commodities carried in a single year.

I know I've seen it in a couple of different places and it might have been an eastern road.

It was quite distinctive and useful (I remember it listing cigarettes from virginia or north carolina).

Can anyone help me locate this as I can't remember where I've seen it.

thanks
bill



Re: Table Saw

Scott H. Haycock
 

In carbide blades, it's the "Triple Chip Grind" that produces the smooth cut. This is the carbide version of the " Hollow Ground Planar" steel blades I previously described.

You'll also find that the face of each tooth is ground at a negative angle so it doesn't grab the top surface of the material being cut.

Scott Haycock


 

Interesting about the "hollowground" blades.  


I've been using "standard" carbide saw blades, and have had no problems with them.  The carbide teeth are always wider than the blade, thus making set.  I do tend to spend a fair bit on a blade, though.

Here's the type, though I haven't used this one, yet:




Ed

Edward Sutorik



Re: Table Saw

spsalso
 

Interesting about the "hollowground" blades.  

I've been using "standard" carbide saw blades, and have had no problems with them.  The carbide teeth are always wider than the blade, thus making set.  I do tend to spend a fair bit on a blade, though.

Here's the type, though I haven't used this one, yet:




Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Table Saw

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote :

Randy,

The whole point of set is to have the teeth cut a slot that is wider than the body of the blade.  This will minimize rubbing the surface of the cut.  And thus lessen heat generated by the friction.  Which would melt plastic.

So, I'm at a loss that you are proposing a blade with no set, which will then allow the face of the blade to rub on the plastic.  And cause it to melt.  From the ensuing friction.  And, in addition, provide more surface for the plastic to "grab".

Am I missing something here?
======================


Set provides clearance, but typically the way the teeth are ground on cheap blades yield a rough cut surface. What Randy is proposing is a smooth side blade, that runs slowly enough (note he mentions a speed control) that it doesn't generate enough heat to melt the plastic. I tend to agree. IF your set-up is rigid enough a blade with zero set should pass through the kerf without rubbing... but that seldom happens, since the plastic parts tend to wiggle around as they heat up. The key is to keep the heat out of the work.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Table Saw

Dave Sarther
 

In my experience (of cutting aluminum siding) I would use a plywood blade put in the saw reverse of the way it would be installed for cutting wood.  Not certain if that would work for plastics however.  SLOW blade speed and a fast stroke seems to be the most effective way of preventing melting. 

Later,  Dave S. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Table Saw

 
Jon,

I agree with both your points.  But I'm saying why not minimize or eliminate the problem by lessening blade contact by having set on the teeth.  

It just doesn't make sense to rub plastic on a spinning steel surface, which is what happens when there's no set on the blade teeth.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Table Saw

Scott H. Haycock
 

Steel woodworking blades of this type (no set) are hollow ground on the sides of the blades just for this reason. The thickness of the blade is reduced between the teeth and the center of the blade to eliminate the blade rubbing against the work.

Scott Haycock


 

Jon,


I agree with both your points.  But I'm saying why not minimize or eliminate the problem by lessening blade contact by having set on the teeth.  

It just doesn't make sense to rub plastic on a spinning steel surface, which is what happens when there's no set on the blade teeth.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



Re: Table Saw

John F. Cizmar
 

The some blades have a negative  "set" on some of the teeth to allow the chips someplace to go and not overheat the work.
John Cizmar  



From: "Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Table Saw

 
On 4/27/2017 12:46 PM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] wrote:

Am I missing something here?
Don't have any experience with any of this but maybe speed of the blade, RPM.  A very slow blade speed should cut without generating heat and maybe a cooling fluid would help.
--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Re: Table Saw

spsalso
 

Jon,

I agree with both your points.  But I'm saying why not minimize or eliminate the problem by lessening blade contact by having set on the teeth.  

It just doesn't make sense to rub plastic on a spinning steel surface, which is what happens when there's no set on the blade teeth.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Table Saw

Jon Miller
 

On 4/27/2017 12:46 PM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] wrote:

Am I missing something here?

Don't have any experience with any of this but maybe speed of the blade, RPM.  A very slow blade speed should cut without generating heat and maybe a cooling fluid would help.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Table Saw

spsalso
 

Randy,

The whole point of set is to have the teeth cut a slot that is wider than the body of the blade.  This will minimize rubbing the surface of the cut.  And thus lessen heat generated by the friction.  Which would melt plastic.

So, I'm at a loss that you are proposing a blade with no set, which will then allow the face of the blade to rub on the plastic.  And cause it to melt.  From the ensuing friction.  And, in addition, provide more surface for the plastic to "grab".

Am I missing something here?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Table Saw

Nolan Hinshaw
 

From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 7:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Table Saw

Here is the ultimate saw for modelwork... but try and find one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfGN6Wb1ZvY
I like the micrometer-like adjustment for the fence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2aZZLCrW9w
Too many distractions! My mind is overflowing with ways to cobble
something like that up for my own shop...
--
Nolan Hinshaw, San Francisco
"Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"
From Wolfgang Pauli, perpetrator of the Pauli Exclusion Principle









These were designed to cut lead Line-o-Type slugs, and sheet lead for spacers to compose newspaper pages. The guy in the first video hasn't figured out that the scale is marked in Pica.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Table Saw

Dennis Storzek
 

Here is the ultimate saw for modelwork... but try and find one!


These were designed to cut lead Line-o-Type slugs, and sheet lead for spacers to compose newspaper pages. The guy in the first video hasn't figured out that the scale is marked in Pica.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Table Saw

qmp211
 

Having spent hundreds of hours testing most all of the hobbyist tablesaws and designing/building/manufacturing a small radial arm saw, I respectfully disagree with some of the opinions expressed about what will yield the best results for cutting most anything including freight cars whether plastic or wood.

IMHO I think you will achieve far superior results incorporating the following ideas.

You'll need about a 4" diameter blade to clean cut most car bodies. The most reasonably priced saw is an older, OOP Dremel Table Saw. They bring a premium dollar on ebay. Make sure you have a seller with a return policy if the saw is bent or damaged. The saw was much maligned but when it is fine tuned, it is the most versatile table saw available for the money. If you're not familiar with setting up a table saw, grab a book featuring table saw tuneups and apply the same principles.
 
The saw will need a speed controller (with the Dremel Saw, it is mandatory!!) to prevent melting of resin/plastic cars. I've never found a saw that will make these cuts without a speed controller. The Dremel cuts best at about 3450 rpm = about 1/3 speed.

What you're looking for blade wise is a jewelers slotting saw, .025" to .032" thick with ZERO set of the teeth. A high quality slotting saw is a must and will yield a superior cut with a very smooth edge. Any set will defeat your objective. Set will cause the blade to grab the part, sling it into the wall and make you count your fingers 3x's before you exhale....

The car will need interior bracing and probably a part sled to keep your fingers out of the rotating machinery. Playdough, artist putty will work. You need to dampen part vibration during the cut to prevent the blade from grabbing the car sides and making a chipped edge.

The most difficult step is getting a square, plumb cut. Just because you get a .025" kerf doesn't mean you will get to slap pieces back together without fitting and sanding. I've had the best results using a NWSL True Sander with some custom sanding blocks. Best practice is to cut long and sand back to the line.

I would avoid any full size saw even if you have the testicular fortitude to dabble. They're too dangerous.

Good luck.

Randy Danniel







Re: Table saw

Marty McGuirk
 

Replying to myself - 

I should add I don’t have the Micro-Mark saw Richard linked to - mine is the larger saw that uses 3.25” blades. 


It’s less expensive than the Byrnes saw, but more than the one Rich provided the link for, which looks like a very small basic saw (which I have no experience with). 

That’s what I get for trying to respond to emails from work - where I can’t access a lot of commercial web sites. 

Sorry for the confusion. 

Marty



On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Marty McGuirk mjmcguirk@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Richard, 


I've also had issues with some Micro-Mark tools, and although I'm sure there are better mini table saws out there, I've been extremely pleased with the micro-lux table saw. I've never had any issues making clean, square cuts with it. 

I also like the Micro-Mark drill press - the X-Y table they sell for it... not so much....


Good luck, 


Marty McGuirk

Manassas Va

On April 26, 2017 at 2:27 PM "Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
As long as we are talking about tools, I am considering buying a miniature table saw. I have been looking at the Byrnes precision saw (http://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/tablesaw.html) but it is rather expensive. One of my main use for the saw would be in sectioning plastic car bodies in the course of kitbashing. I want to be sure to get cuts consistently as square as I can get them. 
 
What has been the experience of others on this list regarding table saws? Is the Micro-Mark saw a good tool? In my experience their tools vary in quality so I want to make sure that if I go the less expensive route and get that one (http://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-Miniature-Table-Saw)  that it will be up to the job. Are there other table saws that people have used and like?
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR