Date   

Re: Table Saw

spsalso
 

My advocacy for a large diameter saw blade is so that the operation can be done with a single cut.  If there is a fixture that can hold a car accurately for three successive cuts, I agree that it might well be preferable.  I think showing such a fixture here would be extremely useful for those who are planning on using a small-blade saw, since the saw AND the fixture are both necessary elements.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Work bench/table height?

spsalso
 

I chose 32 1/2" for the height of my model building bench.  All the little thingies are thus a bit closer to my eyeballs and I scrunch down less.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: BLI 6k tank cars

Stic Harris
 

Apologies for the spam to everyone. 

Best,

Stic

Sent from Stic's iPad

On Apr 28, 2017, at 15:28, Stic Harris <sticdvm@...> wrote:

I'd take the Brown and Niagara Alkali if they're still available. 
Shipping to 20871. 

Let me know,

Stic Harris

Sent from Stic's iPad

On Apr 28, 2017, at 14:31, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

After filling all the pre-orders and having a few canceled, I have the following BLI 6K tank cars remaining.


Cost is $25 each plus priority mail shipping.  I take personal checks, money orders, Paypal with a 3% charge to cover the Paypal fees.

Quantity is 1 of each car

Wyandotte
Electro bleach
Niagara Alkali
Niagara Smelting
Brown
Stauffer
Ethyl
Methieson Chemical

Contact me OFF LIST at suvcworr@...

Rich Orr


Re: BLI 6k tank cars

Stic Harris
 

I'd take the Brown and Niagara Alkali if they're still available. 
Shipping to 20871. 

Let me know,

Stic Harris

Sent from Stic's iPad

On Apr 28, 2017, at 14:31, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

After filling all the pre-orders and having a few canceled, I have the following BLI 6K tank cars remaining.


Cost is $25 each plus priority mail shipping.  I take personal checks, money orders, Paypal with a 3% charge to cover the Paypal fees.

Quantity is 1 of each car

Wyandotte
Electro bleach
Niagara Alkali
Niagara Smelting
Brown
Stauffer
Ethyl
Methieson Chemical

Contact me OFF LIST at suvcworr@...

Rich Orr


Re: Table Saw

Dennis Storzek
 

I agree with much of what Randy said. The biggest advantage of a saw with a sliding table (or a "sled" custom built to rid in the miter gauge grooves in a standard table) is you don't have to slide the part on the table; you can build whatever fixturing is needed to hold the part in a fixed, repeatable position, so it can't flex, or creep into the blade from the side.

A word about blade geometry... there have been a lot of terms bandied about, let's define them.

SET is the widening of the blade at the tips of the teeth, the purpose which is to reduce the friction of the work against the body of the blade. The traditional way to do this, still used on cheap carbon steel blades, was to bend (set) alternate teeth alternate directions from the blade centerline. This leaves the tips of the teeth as sharp outward facing points, and if the work moves AT ALL, they will score the work in the sides of the cut. I'm sure everyone has seen boards with "saw swirls" along the edge.

To prevent this, HOLLOW GROUND blades were developed. These expensive specialty blades have the entire plate of the blade ground thinner from both sides, so the rim where the teeth are formed is thicker. The teeth have almost flat sides (maybe one or two degrees of taper) so the tips of the teeth can't score the work, but they create more friction in the cut.

Carbide tipped blades handle this a bit differently, by making the separate brazed on carbide tips wider than the plate of the blade, but there are still differences. Some blades have relatively big carbides ground parallel (some people think the carbides are so big so they can be resharpened many times, but they are that way to provide bearing on the sides of the cut so the teeth can't score). Cheap carbide blades have tiny little tips, often ground at an angle that mimics the set of a carbon steel blade, for a maximum reduction of friction. These can score the sides of the work.

TOOTH GRIND is a separate issue. Blades meant for cutting wood across the grain are ground at an angle, alternately right and left, so the little points are most effective for severing the fibers of the grain. The carbide equivalent is called ATB (Alternate Top Bevel). Blades made for "ripping" wood (cutting with the direction of the grain) are ground straight across, because the chisel shape is most effective at excavating material from the cut. Metal working blades (alternately called "slitting saws" in the jeweler's trade, and "slotting saws" by machinists) are ground straight across, because metal has no fibers to sever.

TCG (Triple Chip Grind) is a variety grind of carbide tipped teeth that has a different grind on successive teeth, the idea being to break the material to be removed into smaller pieces. One tooth cuts a flat bottom V, taking a bite out of the middle of the kerf, the next tooth has sharp corners and cleans two smaller chips out of the corners of the V. They work well in laminate faced particle board, being less likely to chip the laminate, and well enough in other kinds of wood that they tend to be sold as "all purpose" blades. They work better in plastics than ATB or conventional crosscut blades, but not quite as well as the straight across grind, but are a lot more common.

What does it all mean? Well, Randy's suggested slitting saws will give a smoother cut in plastic than the common stamped carbon steel blades typically supplied with cheap hobby saws, and TCG carbide blades will do almost as well, at the expense of risking melting the sides of the cut from excessive frictional heat. The way to deal with the heat is to run the blade slower, or use a sliding table or "sled" to better fixture the work so it can't creep into the side of the blade, or ideally, both. A spray bottle of water for use as a coolant and cutting fluid will help also. With good fixturing the bade does not need to cut both sides and roof of the model at once, because positioning is repeatable and the body can be separated with three separate cuts, allowing the use of smaller blades and less blade projection.

Dennis Storzek


BLI 6k tank cars

SUVCWORR@...
 

After filling all the pre-orders and having a few canceled, I have the following BLI 6K tank cars remaining.

Cost is $25 each plus priority mail shipping.  I take personal checks, money orders, Paypal with a 3% charge to cover the Paypal fees.

Quantity is 1 of each car

Wyandotte
Electro bleach
Niagara Alkali
Niagara Smelting
Brown
Stauffer
Ethyl
Methieson Chemical

Contact me OFF LIST at suvcworr@...

Rich Orr


Re: Shipper's Car Line (SHPX) Covered Hopper

Ed Hawkins
 


On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:26 AM, jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 I'm speculating in my head that perhaps RR owned cement hoppers

weren't "the rule rather than the exception" on the East Coast and so

having marks such as SHPX was actually quite common in that

part of the country?


Jim,
Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 27 covered cars of this type built by ACF including the cars sold to subsidiary company Shippers’ Car Line. 

As-built, the SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO cars were mainly leased to various private companies with many on 10-year leases. One railroad (CB&Q) leased SHPX cars for a short time. Companies originally leasing the cars during the 1940s to early 1950s included:

Aluminum Ore Co.
Edgar Brothers Co.
Philadelphia Quartz Co.
Sherwin-Williams Co.
Westvaco Chlorine Products Corp.
General Chemical Co.
Reynolds Metals Co.
Kimbery-Clark Corp.
Colgate-Palmolove-Peet Co.
Mathieson

ACF sold 672 cars of 1958 cu. ft. capacity to SHPX, which was about 11% of the slightly more than 6,000 cars of this type that ACF built from 1937-1957. Railroads bought most of the rest with about 200 other cars to private owner companies such as American Smelting & Refining, Central Soya, Dewey Portland Cement, Halliburton, G-E Incandescent Lamp Division, Kosmos Portland Cement, Libby-Owens-Ford Glass, Missouri Portland Cement, Monsanto, & West End Chemical. 

Hope this helps to answer your question.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Work bench/table height?

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony is correct that 30” is the “standard” desk / table height.  It works fine for a sit-down workbench but how you are going to use the work surface will dictate the height.

 

If you have power tools (drill press, mini table saw, etc.) you probably will want a stand-up work surface which can be used with a stool or high adjustable chair.  

Back in my corporate days I had cubicle setup in my office that had a stand-up/lean on a stool/high chair worksurface for my computer and a regular 30” high worksurface for normal reading, writing, etc.

IIRC the standup work surface was about 40 inches high, but the height will vary with how tall you are.

 

Having a variety of work surface heights is healthy as you tend to move around more when standing/leaning than when sitting at a standard height desk, at least that has been my experience.    But, of course, some of that may be linked to my early days on drafting boards which were always a stand up / lean on/sit on a stool proposition.

 

Charlie Vlk 

 


Re: Table Saw

qmp211
 

Responses to issues raised.

A Linotype saw might be a nice saw to own. It’s the saw design that makes it great. Sliding table saws are the best way to cut most everything since the cut off falls away from the blade. For all intents a sliding table saw must be precision made. A used Linotype saw comes with incredible potential for parts no longer manufactured. Do you want to rebuild a saw or build models? FWIW, we designed and manufactured a replacement aluminum plate saw top including the sliding table on linear bearings for the Dremel saw and it’s great but we couldn’t make the price point work. 

A jeweler’s slotting saw is a precision tool designed for metal working machines,  mounted in precision arbors. They come in various stages of quality. We sold hundreds of 4” slotting saw blades for the Dremel saw custom made for us on a $350K Swiss saw blade grinding machine. They were ground round, ground flat, had precision uniform ground teeth and were made with no set in the teeth. There is no comparison between saw blades manufactured for conventional table saw blades vs. precision slotting saws. All of the saw blades we sold included two precision flat ground stabilizing washers to keep the blade running true, especially the .025” blade.

The Dremel table saw out-of-the-box was not a good product. It had terribly poor blades that had no value to hobbyists or serious modelers and when used in our applications, were dangerous. The sewing machine motor screams at 10,000 RPM. 

It takes work to make the saw do what you want.  And it will do that very well as long as you use a speed controller, use a machinist or drafting square for set-up, extend or replace the miter gauge, extend or replace the fence, use a zero clearance throat plate when needed and add dust collection. You can use the jeweler slotting saw blades for precision work or Micro-Mark’s Japanese made carbide tipped blades and get superior results for the dollars you spend. Add a couple of bicycle wrenches for the arbor and arbor nut and you’re all set.  I’ve found a zero clearance throat plate to be absolutely imperative to cutting thin strips of any material on any make of saw.

As far as using full size saws, running blades backwards or using a chop saw, if you value your model or your personal safety, they have no place in our workflow. If you are really determined to test these ideas, stick the part on the end of a broom handle before you attempt the cut. A Dremel Saw will cut your finger off. A full size saw can kill you.

And as a final note from Norm Abram: “Before we get started I'd like to take a moment to talk about shop safety. Be sure to read, understand and follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools. Knowing how to use your power tools PROPERLY will greatly reduce the risk of personal injury. And remember this. There is no other more important safety rule than to wear these, your safety glasses.”

Randy Danniel


Re: Work bench/table height?

Tony Thompson
 

      The 30-inch height has been conventional for desks for many years. Measuring two in our house, that is their height. Some computer tables have been lower, 26 to 28 inches, and if you have a pull-out for keyboard and mouse pad, it is likely 5 inches lower.
       Years ago, I built myself a small workbench for modeling. I remember clamping the 2 x 2 legs at different heights to see what I liked. I still have that bench, and it's 29 inches. Doubtless this depends somewhat on your height. But obviously everyone needs to find their OWN comfort height.


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Shipper's Car Line (SHPX) Covered Hopper

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :

Hi,


  What products would have been shipped in an SHPX 2-bay covered

hopper?


  I typically associate such cars as "cement hoppers" which were usually

relatively short haul products (200 miles - or less) and were typically

RR owned cars such as SP, WP, GN, etc.

==================

Foundry sand is one possibility, as not all sand is good for mold making, and so the good stuff tended to ship relatively great distances. Glass sand also (for glass making). Colored stone granuals for roofing shingles is another.

 =================

  I'm speculating in my head that perhaps RR owned cement hoppers

weren't "the rule rather than the exception" on the East Coast and so

having marks such as SHPX was actually quite common in that

part of the country?

=================


I don't think that is a valid assumption. The shipper was located on a specific RR, and it was up to that RR to supply suitable cars. The RR could either lease them or own them, but sand pits and quarries tend to be long term operations, and owning was cheaper in the long run. I seem to recall that even the Virginian Ry. had a tiny fleet of two bay LO's, to serve some on-line shipper.


Dennis Storzek


Re: Shipper's Car Line (SHPX) Covered Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 


  >> What products would have been shipped in an SHPX 2-bay covered hopper?


Foundry sand, cement, gypsum, trona, soda ash, bentonite, kaolin, feeds and grains,
silica sand (e.g. for glass), salt, potash, granular limestone, powdered lime, talc,
roofing materials (for asphalt shingles), industrial abrasives (grit), many kinds of
chemicals, pigments, concentrates like alumina and zinc, locomotive sand ... and no
doubt many others! :-)

And the reporting marks are irrelevant.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Work bench/table height?

Tim O'Connor
 


I have 4 different work table heights, plus adjustable height chairs. Just sayin'.

:-)

Tim O'Connor



Jim�
 
I have my workbench at 30" above the floor which is fine for some work like weathering. But I lower my chair 4" when cutting and assembling models. Custom jewelry makers have their workbenches at 39" or so for the same reason (rather than lowering their chairs).
 
Jack Burgess


Re: Looking for Box Car Advert.

bill stanton
 

yes...thanks to all

found ad in 9/48 trains mag.




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Todd Horton toddchorton@... [STMFC]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 5:19 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Looking for Box Car Advert.
 
 


Could this be what you had in mind?
 
Todd Horton



From: "bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Looking for Box Car Advert.

 
I'm looking for an ad that had a boxcar and listing of all the places traveled and commodities carried in a single year.

I know I've seen it in a couple of different places and it might have been an eastern road.

It was quite distinctive and useful (I remember it listing cigarettes from virginia or north carolina).

Can anyone help me locate this as I can't remember where I've seen it.

thanks
bill



Re: Work bench/table height?

Bruce Smith
 

Jim, Folks,

Google “desk ergonomics”.  Lots of information on how to set desk and chair heights for the best results,

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:53 AM, jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Jack,

  When you are sitting at your workbench what is the distance
between your elbow and the work surface for both positions?
(When you are just sitting, not necessarily when your arms are
in the actual work position.)
                                                                                - Jim B.




Re: Work bench/table height?

Jim Betz
 


        "VERTICAL distance" not just "distance"


Re: Work bench/table height?

Jim Betz
 

Jack,

  When you are sitting at your workbench what is the distance
between your elbow and the work surface for both positions?
(When you are just sitting, not necessarily when your arms are
in the actual work position.)
                                                                                - Jim B.


Re: Work bench/table height?

Jack Burgess
 

Jim…

 

I have my workbench at 30” above the floor which is fine for some work like weathering. But I lower my chair 4” when cutting and assembling models. Custom jewelry makers have their workbenches  at 39” or so for the same reason (rather than lowering their chairs).

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:17 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Work bench/table height?

 

Hi,

 

  I'm going to move/rebuild/redefine my workbench.  Is there some kind of 'standard'

for how high a workbench surface should be relative to either the height of the chair

you are sitting on or the height of your elbow?

  Although this topic is off topic - I do intend to use the new workspace to build 

steam era freight cars ... is that good enough for the moderator?  (Yes, that's a

real question and I will "take it somewhere else" if the moderator says "not

here, please".


Shipper's Car Line (SHPX) Covered Hopper

Jim Betz
 

Hi,


  What products would have been shipped in an SHPX 2-bay covered

hopper?


  I typically associate such cars as "cement hoppers" which were usually

relatively short haul products (200 miles - or less) and were typically

RR owned cars such as SP, WP, GN, etc.  However I take note of the

fact that my experience with/knowledge of cement hoppers is primarily

for the West Coast.

  If this car (Intermountain makes them and yes they were produced

before the cut off date of this list).  

  I'm speculating in my head that perhaps RR owned cement hoppers

weren't "the rule rather than the exception" on the East Coast and so

having marks such as SHPX was actually quite common in that

part of the country?

                                                                                    - Jim B.


RPM updates

Eric Hansmann
 

I was updating the RPM calendar this morning and noticed a busy few weeks coming up, starting right now! A brief review of events has been posted on the DesignBuildOp blog to help people plan out the next few months. Prep those models for display and bring another modeler that hasn’t experienced an RPM. Here’s the link.

 

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/28/rpm-updates-2/

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

37021 - 37040 of 186173