Date   
Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


I have done a bit of work on a BLI NYC steel box car with 7/8 ends and seem to recall past remarks in this group on the "troubles" with these cars.  I know NYC did many rebuilds of these with new roofs and running boards, but apart from being unable to match a specific BLI road number with the "proper" roof or running board for a specific period, what are the most egregious details on the out-of-box model that need to be corrected?

Michael Gross

--------------------------

Michael,

As far as I have learned, the models are good for NYC - although someone mentioned
that they may represent a modernized car (?) Anyway, here are some previous references
from old emails -

   In the October 2006, RMC, Essential Freight Car article #34, NYC USRA design box cars,
   there is a table that lists all of the cars, and their similarities/differences.
   - Aaron Gjermundson

   That information is also in the roster in my
March, 2007 Railmodel Journal article
   on these cars. The only Spec. 486 box cars that had Dreadnaught ends were those built
   in 1927: 1,000 cars for the Big Four (later absorbed into the NYC roster), 50 cars
   for the Peoria & Eastern, and 1,000 cars for the NYC itself. So that's 2,050 cars
   out of almost 21,000, approximately one in ten. All the other cars had 7-8 corrugated
   ends. - Richard Hendrickson

I hope that helps a little

Tim O'Connor



    I've been pretty happy with the BLI NYC cars as modeled. If BLI were to modify them at
all I have supplied them with the changes needed, and photos, to get very nearly correct
DL&W and Reading prototypes out of these same models. Different ends, different doors 
but little else is required. Getting Bob Grubba, BLI's president, to move on almost any
change or improvement, however, is about as much fun as kicking a fire hydrant. In
addition, I write "very nearly correct" because I know some fellows on this list have little to 
do other than nit pick every new model to death. Perhaps they need to be reminded that 
we are dealing with injection molded styrene models for the masses rather than expensive,
imported brass models for the few who can still afford them.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

gary laakso
 

It appears that Fenton,  is in fact, a freight car expert and that he was trying to disguise his skills, to no avail.  Should his nick name be “Warren”?

 

Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 10:26 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

 

 

Fenton;

Bruce is indeed correct. That is a c.'55-'60 ACF welded jacket and frame tank car. You can tell by the rounded stub end sill typical for ACF products of that time. It also has the rounded insulated tank ends they did typically for their more-"standardized" products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 9:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated. If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles. That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... <mailto:srrfan1401@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@... > > wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different. One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom. I'm assuming Warren had both types.

Blockedhttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg

Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Richard Townsend
 

AHM made a model tank car whose tank is a good starting point for modeling these cars. They show up regularly on eBay. I just checked and two are there now. One is lettered for Gulf and the other for Jack Frost, for those who want to see the models. Kaminski's ACF and tank car books have a few photos of these cars.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, May 1, 2017 7:26 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

 
Fenton;

Bruce is indeed correct. That is a c.'55-'60 ACF welded jacket and frame tank car. You can tell by the rounded stub end sill typical for ACF products of that time. It also has the rounded insulated tank ends they did typically for their more-"standardized" products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 9:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated. If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles. That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... <mailto:srrfan1401@...>; [STMFC] <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC@...>; > wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different. One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom. I'm assuming Warren had both types.

Blockedhttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg>;

Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Rossiter, Mark W
 

Michael, Andy Sperandeo did a little blog on modifying the unusual BLI trick mounting arrangement in order to substitute trucks from Tahoe Model Works, etc.  These cars are notorious for the running boards/roof walks popping loose, so there was some discussion about using Canopy Cement to solve that problem.  I'll look around for Andy's blog later tonight. 


Mark Rossiter

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Steven;

Coil up to around 1955 was shipped in either box cars, in the case of cold-rolled finished sheet, or commonly uncovered in gons with 3 or so over each truck, in the case of unfinished hot-rolled sheet. A lot of experiments were conducted from late forties, through mid-fifties, to see if they could come up with the means to top load (as opposed to box car use) either gons or flats, first using things like treated kraft paper or canvas tarpaulins, to cover the new larger, heavier coils. None of that worked very well. Early designs of either floating or fixed racks or skids were pretty primitive and required much disposable blocking and/or untested skid designs. From about 1954 on, the RRs started was design war of competing designs, most using skids and covers, of which there were many patents floated. NKP was a big practitioner of early coil accommodation. Smaller coils were accommodated by re-construction of gons to include raised sides and removable roofs. There are many photos out there, but they take some time to find.

I am slowly putting together an article or two on this subject, and have been researching it for a while. There is also a bit on this in the PRR gon book.

Let me know if you have further questions. I do have some more photos. BTW, ATSF, CB&Q, WP, and other mid-to-western roads were interested.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday. We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's. But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955. I've been searching online but with no luck. We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka

Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Bill Welch
 

Kadee is doing a Warren car soon, albeit with silver lettering: https://kadee.com/month/future/9010l.jpg

Bill Welch

Re: using blue flags

Bob Chaparro
 

The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals

Donald Manlick

2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220

920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

al.kresse
 

The C&O's designs were either based on Evans Products' in Plymouth, Michigan, or their Wyoming Shops outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan.  The baseline for their evaluations were the spring-loaded PRR skid systems inserted into low-sided gondola cars.  They initially wanted to use canvas tarps on hoops . . . but ran into union-issues at the mills.  Steel covers could be removed or installed by the SAME CRANE OPERATORS AS HANDLING THE COILS . . . instead of adding more laborers.


C&O rans coils between Gary, Indiana, Burns harbors, etc. and Grand Rapids, Flint and Detroit.


Al


Pictures o the early system are in COHS Digital Archives.

On May 1, 2017 at 12:28 PM "'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Steven;

Coil up to around 1955 was shipped in either box cars, in the case of cold-rolled finished sheet, or commonly uncovered in gons with 3 or so over each truck, in the case of unfinished hot-rolled sheet. A lot of experiments were conducted from late forties, through mid-fifties, to see if they could come up with the means to top load (as opposed to box car use) either gons or flats, first using things like treated kraft paper or canvas tarpaulins, to cover the new larger, heavier coils. None of that worked very well. Early designs of either floating or fixed racks or skids were pretty primitive and required much disposable blocking and/or untested skid designs. From about 1954 on, the RRs started was design war of competing designs, most using skids and covers, of which there were many patents floated. NKP was a big practitioner of early coil accommodation. Smaller coils were accommodated by re-construction of gons to include raised sides and removable roofs. There are many photos out there, but they take some time to find.

I am slowly putting together an article or two on this subject, and have been researching it for a while. There is also a bit on this in the PRR gon book.

Let me know if you have further questions. I do have some more photos. BTW, ATSF, CB&Q, WP, and other mid-to-western roads were interested.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday. We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's. But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955. I've been searching online but with no luck. We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Oh, and to add to the earlier message, there are a lot of misconceptions about steel coil loading. Steel could be highly protected (as far as early technology was concerned, or all the way to basically unprotected at all. Labor was cheap, and you could hire people cheaply to remove rust and oil (used to protect from rusting).

There were few to no "dedicated" steel coil cars until the mid-fifties, and since most of it moved in box cars, the times you see coil is in loading and unloading. Coil was loaded into box cars by driving a forklift over a loading platform, driving it to the end of the car, and leaving it, eye-first (latitudinally) up to the car end. The coils were then roughly blocked in place to prevent tipping or sideways rolling. This habit was extremely destructive to car sides (and ends). The coils were very large, and rolled or tipped easily. I have photos from 1938 that show destroyed car interiors on the PRR. PRR rebuilt box cars as "dedicated" interior lined cars in 1938. They are the first I can find record of. I have never seen a photo of one of those classes stenciled, but suspect they were in dedicated service. The largest coils in that service look to be about 48" in diameter.

The industry's pleas for cars that could handle even larger coils, specifically the 72" coil, led to the development of the true dedicated "coil car".

That is another story...

Sadly, no one makes an accurate kit or otherwise, of an early coil gon. Not even early coils and racks. I have had to make all mine one way or another.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Steven;

Coil up to around 1955 was shipped in either box cars, in the case of cold-rolled finished sheet, or commonly uncovered in gons with 3 or so over each truck, in the case of unfinished hot-rolled sheet. A lot of experiments were conducted from late forties, through mid-fifties, to see if they could come up with the means to top load (as opposed to box car use) either gons or flats, first using things like treated kraft paper or canvas tarpaulins, to cover the new larger, heavier coils. None of that worked very well. Early designs of either floating or fixed racks or skids were pretty primitive and required much disposable blocking and/or untested skid designs. From about 1954 on, the RRs started was design war of competing designs, most using skids and covers, of which there were many patents floated. NKP was a big practitioner of early coil accommodation. Smaller coils were accommodated by re-construction of gons to include raised sides and removable roofs. There are many photo s out there, but they take some time to find.

I am slowly putting together an article or two on this subject, and have been researching it for a while. There is also a bit on this in the PRR gon book.

Let me know if you have further questions. I do have some more photos. BTW, ATSF, CB&Q, WP, and other mid-to-western roads were interested.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday. We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's. But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955. I've been searching online but with no luck. We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

Not mid-western roads, but the Denver & Rio Grande Western, Western Pacific and Sacramento Northern were handling coil for U.S. Steel from Geneva, Utah, to Pittsburg, California, at least as early as 1945. They used whatever D&RGW or WP gondolas available, originally with disposable wooden blocking. There are photos showing WP and D&RGW Greenville 53' mill gondolas, WP 65' mill gondolas, steel D&RGW GS drop-bottom gondolas, and the WP's composite drop-bottom cars. In 1953, the WP took delivery of 100 29' mill gondolas from Greenville specifically designed for coil service. These saved dead weight from the center of longer cars since the coils were generally loaded in the ends over the trucks anyway. In the mid-1950s these short cars received permanent coil racks.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/1/17 11:11 AM, no1detail@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday.  We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's.  But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955.  I've been searching online but with no luck.  We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka



Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Tony Thompson
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

 
Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.

    The term "dark lower band" is a good visual description, but be aware it is in fact the entire lower sheet of the (removable) jacket over the insulation. This was commonly painted black.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: using blue flags

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals
Donald Manlick
2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220
920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

  Yes, I added a comment to my modeling post, identifying Don. In fact, Don passed away in February 2015 and the existing stock of decals was auctioned off. But I have not been able to find out whether the artwork survives and if it is in use by anyone. The reach of this list might be great enough to turn up an answer.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

jeralbin@...
 

Mr Gatwood wrote,
 “Oh, and to add to the earlier message, there are a lot of misconceptions about steel coil loading. Steel could be highly protected (as far as early technology was concerned, or all the way to basically unprotected at all. Labor was cheap, and you could hire people cheaply to remove rust and oil (used to protect from rusting). “

 If the coils traveled unprotected they were hot band, straight off the hot mill. They were ether finished at the same mill or shipped to a sister mill or outside processor. Once there, the coils were pickled (sulfuric or HCL acid) , heads and tails cropped, trimmed to ordered width, oiled with either ship oil or a pickle oil compatible with the cold mill solution oil. Coils coated with ship oil were called hot roll, pickle, oiled and ship and usually went to stamping plants that made heavy gauge parts. These coil were shipped fully protected from the elements. Hot band with pickle oil went to either a sheet or tin mill and cold rolled to finish gauge. They were then further processed and paper warped for shipment. Finished cold roll coils were/are shipped fully protected. Tin plate was first shipped sheared as flat sheets and packed in wood  boxes. Later, tin plate coils were shipped on their sides on very heavy wood pallets. Both went by box cars. Cold roll sheet gauge coils went by box, covered gons or later, by coil cars. BTW, manual labor was never used to remove rust and scale from hot band, the coils were handled by over head cranes and pickled on a continuous pickler line to remove the rust and scale.  Regards...Jerry Albin

Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

Sunshine kits were for 8,000 gal.tank cars. These cars look like 10 or 12,000 gal tank cars.

Dale Florence




From: "O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954



Thanks Bruce I love the tank cars but am not a student of same.

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 9:58 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated.  If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles.  That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 
On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.



--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...




Rail Industry tour of Youngstown, Ohio ca. 1960

Tim O'Connor
 


If you have a Facebook profile you can watch this 9 minute b&w movie
made from a special PRR industry excursion tour of the steel mills and
railroads in the area all around Youngstown Ohio. Lots of interesting
freight cars, steel mills, coke works, bridges, yards, track work, etc.

Almost ALL of it gone now.

One surprise for me - a nearly new B&M triple hopper car at the coke plant! :-)

Tim O'



============================================
B&Oers...

I don't know whether you have to be on Facebook for this to work, but let's try anyway.
Click this link:


  https://www.facebook.com/businessmediaarchives/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


This is the Facebook page of the "Business & Media Archives of the Mahoning Valley" Now scroll down the screen until you see the heading "Posts" and you'll find a circa-1960 video of an industrial tour around Youngstown. The last half is on the "B&O side" of the city.

Enjoy!

Tom Greco
Duncanville, TX
============================================
This is a fascinating video of Youngstown. It brought back many memories of tramping around Youngstown as a teenager in the 1950's. Towards the end of the video, the train is at Haselton in it's move from B&O rails to PRR rails. There is a brief shot of CH tower with a woman standing at the door of the tower. That is Gladys Manning, Her husband was Jay Manning who was the 1st trick Valley Street operator on the Erie. Jay was a 2nd cousin to my ex wife.

In retrospect it must have taken quite a bit of supervisory coordination (and pilot crews on the B&O, P&LE, NYC, & Erie) to make this train move around the Youngstown valley from Girard to Lowellville. It appears as if the train exited PRR rails on the LE&E to the P&LE's Gateway yard. From the P&LE outbound yard it traversed the P&LE to Center Street crossing and from then on NYC rails to the Wilson Avenue NYC depot. From there it traveled on Erie rails to Briar Hill/Girard. At Girard the train used the B&O's Girard cutoff to access the B&O main line at Ohio Jct. (brief shot of OW tower and water tank). The train regained PRR rails at Center Street crossing, thence returning to the PRR depot. The PRR depot was approximately across from the B&O depot, but on the north side of the Mahoning River.

As the train approaches the B&O station, it passes on the WB track a short train with a S-class ALCO yard engine. That train was the "River Run" job and would use that crossover to the EB main and the T&M Commercial Siding switch on the EB track (just east of the station).

Dick Widera
Hudson FL
============================================

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Steven Cerka
 

Any photos from the ATSF, Q or WP would be appreciated.


Thank you

Steven E. Cerka

On May 1, 2017 at 12:44 PM "'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Oh, and to add to the earlier message, there are a lot of misconceptions about steel coil loading. Steel could be highly protected (as far as early technology was concerned, or all the way to basically unprotected at all. Labor was cheap, and you could hire people cheaply to remove rust and oil (used to protect from rusting).

There were few to no "dedicated" steel coil cars until the mid-fifties, and since most of it moved in box cars, the times you see coil is in loading and unloading. Coil was loaded into box cars by driving a forklift over a loading platform, driving it to the end of the car, and leaving it, eye-first (latitudinally) up to the car end. The coils were then roughly blocked in place to prevent tipping or sideways rolling. This habit was extremely destructive to car sides (and ends). The coils were very large, and rolled or tipped easily. I have photos from 1938 that show destroyed car interiors on the PRR. PRR rebuilt box cars as "dedicated" interior lined cars in 1938. They are the first I can find record of. I have never seen a photo of one of those classes stenciled, but suspect they were in dedicated service. The largest coils in that service look to be about 48" in diameter.

The industry's pleas for cars that could handle even larger coils, specifically the 72" coil, led to the development of the true dedicated "coil car".

That is another story...

Sadly, no one makes an accurate kit or otherwise, of an early coil gon. Not even early coils and racks. I have had to make all mine one way or another.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Steven;

Coil up to around 1955 was shipped in either box cars, in the case of cold-rolled finished sheet, or commonly uncovered in gons with 3 or so over each truck, in the case of unfinished hot-rolled sheet. A lot of experiments were conducted from late forties, through mid-fifties, to see if they could come up with the means to top load (as opposed to box car use) either gons or flats, first using things like treated kraft paper or canvas tarpaulins, to cover the new larger, heavier coils. None of that worked very well. Early designs of either floating or fixed racks or skids were pretty primitive and required much disposable blocking and/or untested skid designs. From about 1954 on, the RRs started was design war of competing designs, most using skids and covers, of which there were many patents floated. NKP was a big practitioner of early coil accommodation. Smaller coils were accommodated by re-construction of gons to include raised sides and removable roofs. There are many photo s out there, but they take some time to find.

I am slowly putting together an article or two on this subject, and have been researching it for a while. There is also a bit on this in the PRR gon book.

Let me know if you have further questions. I do have some more photos. BTW, ATSF, CB&Q, WP, and other mid-to-western roads were interested.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday. We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's. But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955. I've been searching online but with no luck. We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka













 

Re: Rail Industry tour of Youngstown, Ohio ca. 1960

Brian Carlson
 

I watched this the other day. The KO&G hopper was also interested as was the parking garage for autos near the end. (Autos may have been shipped by boxcar earlier in their life)

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 1, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


If you have a Facebook profile you can watch this 9 minute b&w movie
made from a special PRR industry excursion tour of the steel mills and
railroads in the area all around Youngstown Ohio. Lots of interesting
freight cars, steel mills, coke works, bridges, yards, track work, etc.

Almost ALL of it gone now.

One surprise for me - a nearly new B&M triple hopper car at the coke plant! :-)

Tim O'



============================================
B&Oers...

I don't know whether you have to be on Facebook for this to work, but let's try anyway.
Click this link:


  https://www.facebook.com/businessmediaarchives/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


This is the Facebook page of the "Business & Media Archives of the Mahoning Valley" Now scroll down the screen until you see the heading "Posts" and you'll find a circa-1960 video of an industrial tour around Youngstown. The last half is on the "B&O side" of the city.

Enjoy!

Tom Greco
Duncanville, TX
============================================
This is a fascinating video of Youngstown. It brought back many memories of tramping around Youngstown as a teenager in the 1950's. Towards the end of the video, the train is at Haselton in it's move from B&O rails to PRR rails. There is a brief shot of CH tower with a woman standing at the door of the tower. That is Gladys Manning, Her husband was Jay Manning who was the 1st trick Valley Street operator on the Erie. Jay was a 2nd cousin to my ex wife.

In retrospect it must have taken quite a bit of supervisory coordination (and pilot crews on the B&O, P&LE, NYC, & Erie) to make this train move around the Youngstown valley from Girard to Lowellville. It appears as if the train exited PRR rails on the LE&E to the P&LE's Gateway yard. From the P&LE outbound yard it traversed the P&LE to Center Street crossing and from then on NYC rails to the Wilson Avenue NYC depot. From there it traveled on Erie rails to Briar Hill/Girard. At Girard the train used the B&O's Girard cutoff to access the B&O main line at Ohio Jct. (brief shot of OW tower and water tank). The train regained PRR rails at Center Street crossing, thence returning to the PRR depot. The PRR depot was approximately across from the B&O depot, but on the north side of the Mahoning River.

As the train approaches the B&O station, it passes on the WB track a short train with a S-class ALCO yard engine. That train was the "River Run" job and would use that crossover to the EB main and the T&M Commercial Siding switch on the EB track (just east of the station).

Dick Widera
Hudson FL
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Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2017-05-01, at 4:41 PM, dale florence dwwesley@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
Sunshine kits were for 8,000 gal.tank cars. These cars look like 10 or 12,000 gal tank cars.

Good eye.  WRNX 5505 is shown as 11014 gal. in the 1955 Tank Car Capacities tariff.  The other car, which appears to read WRNX 11392 to my eye, doesn't appear in either the 1955 or 1970 Tank Car Capacities tariff, but certainly looks to be as large.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

Try http://www.wplives.org/sn/gon.html and http://www.wplives.org/sn/steel.html . Most of the coils carried by the D&RGW/WP/SN operation were shipped in open gondolas, right up to the end of the independent WP in 1982. For an earlier view of this operation, see David Myrick's RAILROADS OF NEVADA AND EASTERN CALIFORNIA, V. 1, page [326].

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/1/17 4:49 PM, Steven Cerka no1detail@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Any photos from the ATSF, Q or WP would be appreciated.


Thank you

Steven E. Cerka



Re: using blue flags

Brian Termunde
 

I agree with Tim, but by going with that standard, it's going to be AWFULLY quiet here, as we cannot discuss freight cars as they most assuredly originated prior to 1900!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

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________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: using blue flags
Posted by: "Tim O&#39;Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250
Date: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:04 pm ((PDT))


Good point. I also object to any discussions of steel, oil, wood, or paint,
since all of those were first employed prior to 1900.



>Bob Witt
>
>The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.