Date   

Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

Why does that seem odd to you ? It's a B-50-38 built in 1956 and
the photo date is 1958.

Tim O'




Did anyone notice the SP 214263 box car is still stenciled as "NEW".
/ https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg


Re: Seaboard Decals

O Fenton Wells
 

Did you try Herald King or Mask Island?


On May 2, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Timothy Alund Atoolman2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Group,

I'm wondering does anyone make the bold Seaboard decals like in this picture?

http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/3127

Thanks,

Tim Alund
Villa Park,IL


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

rwitt_2000
 


Re: Seaboard Decals

al_brown03
 

Annd sure enough, there they are. Thanks!

AL B.


Re: Seaboard Decals

Tim O'Connor
 

yep, it's not the most intuitive ... but that's ok we want Hubert to continue
to concentrate on making beautiful decals. :-)

also when you get to the "freight" decals, click on the pull down to show the
largest number so you can see all of the sets. on the other hand I didn't see
any for the Seaboard scheme in question ... ?

Tim O'

-------------------------

On the home page, they are located by clicking on caboose, freight, locomotive,
or trailer. Brian Ehni

=========================

Hmm ... something's wrong with the Mask Island web site ... I can find everything but decals.
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

brianleppert@att.net
 

WRNX 11392 is listed in the 1960 Tank Cars Capacities with 11040 gallons.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Seaboard Decals

 

On the home page, they are located by clicking on “caboose”, “freight”, “locomotive”, or “trailer”.





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni





From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 6:40 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seaboard Decals





Hmm ... something's wrong with the Mask Island web site ... I can find everything but decals.



Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Seaboard Decals

al_brown03
 

Hmm ... something's wrong with the Mask Island web site ... I can find everything but decals.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Seaboard Decals

hubert mask
 

That is a thought.  Mask Island Decals.  

Hubert Mask 


On May 2, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


    I'm wondering does anyone make the bold Seaboard decals like in this picture?
    http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/3127
   Tim Alund


http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=87-1287

That ^ style of lettering was not used before 1961


Re: Seaboard Decals

Tim O'Connor
 


    I'm wondering does anyone make the bold Seaboard decals like in this picture?
    http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/3127
   Tim Alund


http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=87-1287

That ^ style of lettering was not used before 1961


Re: Seaboard Decals

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Tim,

Speedwitch makes a set for Seaboard 40' boxcars, but I'm not sure if it includes the gothic style lettering for the initials and numbers shown in the photo you reference.  It should include the herald and dimensional data, though.  You might be able to find a Champ Decal Co. alphabet set on eBay that would do the initials and numbers, or at least come close.

Todd Sullivan


Seaboard Decals

Tim
 

Group,

I'm wondering does anyone make the bold Seaboard decals like in this picture?

http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/3127

Thanks,

Tim Alund
Villa Park,IL


Re: using blue flags

Brian Termunde
 

I agree with Tim, but by going with that standard, it's going to be AWFULLY quiet here, as we cannot discuss freight cars as they most assuredly originated prior to 1900!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

************************************************

________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: using blue flags
Posted by: "Tim O&#39;Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250
Date: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:04 pm ((PDT))


Good point. I also object to any discussions of steel, oil, wood, or paint,
since all of those were first employed prior to 1900.



>Bob Witt
>
>The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.






Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

Try http://www.wplives.org/sn/gon.html and http://www.wplives.org/sn/steel.html . Most of the coils carried by the D&RGW/WP/SN operation were shipped in open gondolas, right up to the end of the independent WP in 1982. For an earlier view of this operation, see David Myrick's RAILROADS OF NEVADA AND EASTERN CALIFORNIA, V. 1, page [326].

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/1/17 4:49 PM, Steven Cerka no1detail@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Any photos from the ATSF, Q or WP would be appreciated.


Thank you

Steven E. Cerka




Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2017-05-01, at 4:41 PM, dale florence dwwesley@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
Sunshine kits were for 8,000 gal.tank cars. These cars look like 10 or 12,000 gal tank cars.

Good eye.  WRNX 5505 is shown as 11014 gal. in the 1955 Tank Car Capacities tariff.  The other car, which appears to read WRNX 11392 to my eye, doesn't appear in either the 1955 or 1970 Tank Car Capacities tariff, but certainly looks to be as large.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada



Re: Rail Industry tour of Youngstown, Ohio ca. 1960

Brian Carlson
 

I watched this the other day. The KO&G hopper was also interested as was the parking garage for autos near the end. (Autos may have been shipped by boxcar earlier in their life)

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 1, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


If you have a Facebook profile you can watch this 9 minute b&w movie
made from a special PRR industry excursion tour of the steel mills and
railroads in the area all around Youngstown Ohio. Lots of interesting
freight cars, steel mills, coke works, bridges, yards, track work, etc.

Almost ALL of it gone now.

One surprise for me - a nearly new B&M triple hopper car at the coke plant! :-)

Tim O'



============================================
B&Oers...

I don't know whether you have to be on Facebook for this to work, but let's try anyway.
Click this link:


  https://www.facebook.com/businessmediaarchives/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


This is the Facebook page of the "Business & Media Archives of the Mahoning Valley" Now scroll down the screen until you see the heading "Posts" and you'll find a circa-1960 video of an industrial tour around Youngstown. The last half is on the "B&O side" of the city.

Enjoy!

Tom Greco
Duncanville, TX
============================================
This is a fascinating video of Youngstown. It brought back many memories of tramping around Youngstown as a teenager in the 1950's. Towards the end of the video, the train is at Haselton in it's move from B&O rails to PRR rails. There is a brief shot of CH tower with a woman standing at the door of the tower. That is Gladys Manning, Her husband was Jay Manning who was the 1st trick Valley Street operator on the Erie. Jay was a 2nd cousin to my ex wife.

In retrospect it must have taken quite a bit of supervisory coordination (and pilot crews on the B&O, P&LE, NYC, & Erie) to make this train move around the Youngstown valley from Girard to Lowellville. It appears as if the train exited PRR rails on the LE&E to the P&LE's Gateway yard. From the P&LE outbound yard it traversed the P&LE to Center Street crossing and from then on NYC rails to the Wilson Avenue NYC depot. From there it traveled on Erie rails to Briar Hill/Girard. At Girard the train used the B&O's Girard cutoff to access the B&O main line at Ohio Jct. (brief shot of OW tower and water tank). The train regained PRR rails at Center Street crossing, thence returning to the PRR depot. The PRR depot was approximately across from the B&O depot, but on the north side of the Mahoning River.

As the train approaches the B&O station, it passes on the WB track a short train with a S-class ALCO yard engine. That train was the "River Run" job and would use that crossover to the EB main and the T&M Commercial Siding switch on the EB track (just east of the station).

Dick Widera
Hudson FL
============================================


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

Steven Cerka <no1detail@...>
 

Any photos from the ATSF, Q or WP would be appreciated.


Thank you

Steven E. Cerka

On May 1, 2017 at 12:44 PM "'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Oh, and to add to the earlier message, there are a lot of misconceptions about steel coil loading. Steel could be highly protected (as far as early technology was concerned, or all the way to basically unprotected at all. Labor was cheap, and you could hire people cheaply to remove rust and oil (used to protect from rusting).

There were few to no "dedicated" steel coil cars until the mid-fifties, and since most of it moved in box cars, the times you see coil is in loading and unloading. Coil was loaded into box cars by driving a forklift over a loading platform, driving it to the end of the car, and leaving it, eye-first (latitudinally) up to the car end. The coils were then roughly blocked in place to prevent tipping or sideways rolling. This habit was extremely destructive to car sides (and ends). The coils were very large, and rolled or tipped easily. I have photos from 1938 that show destroyed car interiors on the PRR. PRR rebuilt box cars as "dedicated" interior lined cars in 1938. They are the first I can find record of. I have never seen a photo of one of those classes stenciled, but suspect they were in dedicated service. The largest coils in that service look to be about 48" in diameter.

The industry's pleas for cars that could handle even larger coils, specifically the 72" coil, led to the development of the true dedicated "coil car".

That is another story...

Sadly, no one makes an accurate kit or otherwise, of an early coil gon. Not even early coils and racks. I have had to make all mine one way or another.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Steven;

Coil up to around 1955 was shipped in either box cars, in the case of cold-rolled finished sheet, or commonly uncovered in gons with 3 or so over each truck, in the case of unfinished hot-rolled sheet. A lot of experiments were conducted from late forties, through mid-fifties, to see if they could come up with the means to top load (as opposed to box car use) either gons or flats, first using things like treated kraft paper or canvas tarpaulins, to cover the new larger, heavier coils. None of that worked very well. Early designs of either floating or fixed racks or skids were pretty primitive and required much disposable blocking and/or untested skid designs. From about 1954 on, the RRs started was design war of competing designs, most using skids and covers, of which there were many patents floated. NKP was a big practitioner of early coil accommodation. Smaller coils were accommodated by re-construction of gons to include raised sides and removable roofs. There are many photo s out there, but they take some time to find.

I am slowly putting together an article or two on this subject, and have been researching it for a while. There is also a bit on this in the PRR gon book.

Let me know if you have further questions. I do have some more photos. BTW, ATSF, CB&Q, WP, and other mid-to-western roads were interested.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955



Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday. We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's. But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955. I've been searching online but with no luck. We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka













 


Rail Industry tour of Youngstown, Ohio ca. 1960

Tim O'Connor
 


If you have a Facebook profile you can watch this 9 minute b&w movie
made from a special PRR industry excursion tour of the steel mills and
railroads in the area all around Youngstown Ohio. Lots of interesting
freight cars, steel mills, coke works, bridges, yards, track work, etc.

Almost ALL of it gone now.

One surprise for me - a nearly new B&M triple hopper car at the coke plant! :-)

Tim O'



============================================
B&Oers...

I don't know whether you have to be on Facebook for this to work, but let's try anyway.
Click this link:


  https://www.facebook.com/businessmediaarchives/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


This is the Facebook page of the "Business & Media Archives of the Mahoning Valley" Now scroll down the screen until you see the heading "Posts" and you'll find a circa-1960 video of an industrial tour around Youngstown. The last half is on the "B&O side" of the city.

Enjoy!

Tom Greco
Duncanville, TX
============================================
This is a fascinating video of Youngstown. It brought back many memories of tramping around Youngstown as a teenager in the 1950's. Towards the end of the video, the train is at Haselton in it's move from B&O rails to PRR rails. There is a brief shot of CH tower with a woman standing at the door of the tower. That is Gladys Manning, Her husband was Jay Manning who was the 1st trick Valley Street operator on the Erie. Jay was a 2nd cousin to my ex wife.

In retrospect it must have taken quite a bit of supervisory coordination (and pilot crews on the B&O, P&LE, NYC, & Erie) to make this train move around the Youngstown valley from Girard to Lowellville. It appears as if the train exited PRR rails on the LE&E to the P&LE's Gateway yard. From the P&LE outbound yard it traversed the P&LE to Center Street crossing and from then on NYC rails to the Wilson Avenue NYC depot. From there it traveled on Erie rails to Briar Hill/Girard. At Girard the train used the B&O's Girard cutoff to access the B&O main line at Ohio Jct. (brief shot of OW tower and water tank). The train regained PRR rails at Center Street crossing, thence returning to the PRR depot. The PRR depot was approximately across from the B&O depot, but on the north side of the Mahoning River.

As the train approaches the B&O station, it passes on the WB track a short train with a S-class ALCO yard engine. That train was the "River Run" job and would use that crossover to the EB main and the T&M Commercial Siding switch on the EB track (just east of the station).

Dick Widera
Hudson FL
============================================


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

Sunshine kits were for 8,000 gal.tank cars. These cars look like 10 or 12,000 gal tank cars.

Dale Florence




From: "O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954



Thanks Bruce I love the tank cars but am not a student of same.

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 9:58 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated.  If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles.  That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 
On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.



--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...





Re: [Non-DoD Source] Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

jeralbin@...
 

Mr Gatwood wrote,
 “Oh, and to add to the earlier message, there are a lot of misconceptions about steel coil loading. Steel could be highly protected (as far as early technology was concerned, or all the way to basically unprotected at all. Labor was cheap, and you could hire people cheaply to remove rust and oil (used to protect from rusting). “

 If the coils traveled unprotected they were hot band, straight off the hot mill. They were ether finished at the same mill or shipped to a sister mill or outside processor. Once there, the coils were pickled (sulfuric or HCL acid) , heads and tails cropped, trimmed to ordered width, oiled with either ship oil or a pickle oil compatible with the cold mill solution oil. Coils coated with ship oil were called hot roll, pickle, oiled and ship and usually went to stamping plants that made heavy gauge parts. These coil were shipped fully protected from the elements. Hot band with pickle oil went to either a sheet or tin mill and cold rolled to finish gauge. They were then further processed and paper warped for shipment. Finished cold roll coils were/are shipped fully protected. Tin plate was first shipped sheared as flat sheets and packed in wood  boxes. Later, tin plate coils were shipped on their sides on very heavy wood pallets. Both went by box cars. Cold roll sheet gauge coils went by box, covered gons or later, by coil cars. BTW, manual labor was never used to remove rust and scale from hot band, the coils were handled by over head cranes and pickled on a continuous pickler line to remove the rust and scale.  Regards...Jerry Albin

43381 - 43400 of 192632