Date   

Re: using blue flags

John Barry
 

Bob,

I concur that the last box in the color Delano LOC photo and the cropped Shorpy version is a Bx-3/6 and is shorter than the Sunshine offering of the Fe-P/Bx-58.

I think Garth was referring to the short box in the B&W Kansas Memory Link that I provided.  The car to the left of the box in the Map scheme is a Bx-O/14.  The car to the right I can't read the reporting marks so it may be a better match for the Accurail 36 footer.  

Both the Bx-3 and Bx-O have been done by Westerfield, so we are not without options.  But both are flat kits and new ones are at list cost.  If you want a few fleet Bx-O/14s, a kitbash of the Accurail could be less expensive.

Two photos (one with two different crops), two views from slightly spots on the Lead Avenue overpass.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "rwitt_2000@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 11:40 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: using blue flags

 
We are discussing two different views of the same subject the one Dennis provided a link and this one that includes more box cars at the freight house.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/fsa1992000783/PP/

My guess is that two of the box cars on the track closest to the camera is what Sunshine termed "sectional sheathed".

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun69a.pdf

Regards,

Bob Witt








Re: using blue flags

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I would guess that the car pictured is class BX3 or BX6 rather than the cars Sunshine did, which were FeP and FeT automobile cars (and their post-war derivatives).

The Bx3/6 cars are available in HO from Westerfield

And their really cool stock car derivatives are available from Westerfield as well:

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On May 4, 2017, at 10:40 AM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



We are discussing two different views of the same subject the one Dennis provided a link and this one that includes more box cars at the freight house.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/fsa1992000783/PP/

My guess is that two of the box cars on the track closest to the camera is what Sunshine termed "sectional sheathed".

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun69a.pdf

Regards,

Bob Witt









Re: using blue flags

rwitt_2000
 

Brian,

I guess it would have to be Bx-3 or -6 because I best I can determine the single door Sunshine model represents a B-58 rebuilt after 1943.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: using blue flags

 

The Sunshine kit shows 2 rows of horizontal battens (?), while the photo shows one. I’d guess it’s a Bx-3 or 6: http://tinyurl.com/ml3moob





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:40 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: using blue flags





We are discussing two different views of the same subject the one Dennis provided a link and this one that includes more box cars at the freight house.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/fsa1992000783/PP/

My guess is that two of the box cars on the track closest to the camera is what Sunshine termed "sectional sheathed".

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun69a.pdf

Regards,

Bob Witt








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: using blue flags

rwitt_2000
 

We are discussing two different views of the same subject the one Dennis provided a link and this one that includes more box cars at the freight house.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/fsa1992000783/PP/

My guess is that two of the box cars on the track closest to the camera is what Sunshine termed "sectional sheathed".

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun69a.pdf

Regards,

Bob Witt






Re: using blue flags

 

If Bx-O/14, why not start with and actual model of one?

http://tinyurl.com/k2mlmua





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:06 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags





Garth,



If you are referring to the short car to the left of the box in the map scheme, it is an AT&SF car which would likely make it a Bx-O/14. Those cars had fishbelly side sills and can't be built out of the box from the new (and very nice) Acurail car. It may be the foundation for a kitbash, but I haven't figured that out yet as all three of the kits I've gotten are with the straight center sill.



John Barry



ATSF North Bay Lines

Golden Gates & Fast Freights

Lovettsville, VA



707-490-9696



PO Box 44736

Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags





John and friends,

Did anyone else notice the nominal 37' boxcar at the freight platform to the left? Another possible car from Dennis' new offering.

Yours Aye,



Garth Groff



On 5/3/17 11:23 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:



You see something new each time you look at it. It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.



Compare with the following: Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Company's steam locomotive #3784 - Kansas Memory



Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Company's steam locomotive #378...
Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Company's steam locomotive #3784 - Kansas Memory
Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock. Note the fuel cars. The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563. The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.



John Barry



ATSF North Bay Lines

Golden Gates & Fast Freights

Lovettsville, VA



707-490-9696



PO Box 44736

Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags





This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption


Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.


Dennis Storzek










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: using blue flags

John Barry
 

Garth,

If you are referring to the short car to the left of the box in the map scheme, it is an AT&SF  car which would likely make it a Bx-O/14.  Those cars had fishbelly side sills and can't be built out of the box from the new (and very nice) Acurail car.  It may be the foundation for a kitbash, but I haven't figured that out yet as all three of the kits I've gotten are with the straight center sill.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
John and friends,
Did anyone else notice the nominal 37' boxcar at the freight platform to the left? Another possible car from Dennis' new offering.
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

On 5/3/17 11:23 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek






Re: using blue flags

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

John and friends,

Did anyone else notice the nominal 37' boxcar at the freight platform to the left? Another possible car from Dennis' new offering.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/3/17 11:23 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek




Re: using blue flags

John Barry
 

You see something new each time you look at it.  It's particularly interesting for me as I lived six blocks east of this location when I was in Albuquerque, many years in the future.  


Even more Steam Era Freight cars at the loading dock.  Note the fuel cars.  The first car is the same in both pictures Tk-K 100563.  The second car seems to be the same Tk-J, ???54.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

 
This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.
>
>
> Dennis Storzek



Delano pic of Super Chief in Alburque 1943 - was Blue Flags

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I started to count RR personnel and quickly got up to 20 ... before
I got into trying to separate the RR people from the crush of
war time passengers. Caption says "5 minutes" for this stop.
I suspect that the amount of time the RR guys spent both before
and after the 5 minutes of the stop itself was in the order of at
least an hour per person (average).
It was all about "Service" with a capital S in those days.
- Jim B.

P.S. And those blue flags "protecting" the train were pretty darn
hard to see in this pic. They pretty much were a dark, dingy
blue and didn't stand out as even being much different from
the brown/dark grey of the background. I'm sure they
worked for the RR - and stopped any one attempting to
move the train or tank car ... I'm just saying they weren't
all that easy to see.


Re: Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks to everyone who replied, I really appreciate the respneses 

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a couple of photos of WP aluminum lettered cars and you can
tell it WAS aluminum but it's definitely NOT white - it weathers to
a dull gray color, which may be why the practice was short lived.

Tim O'Connor



     i have heard several WP experts state that the aluminum lettering quickly chalked to a white appearance, so that the choice of white or aluminum lettering is probably moot unless you are modeling a freshly outshopped car.

Tony Thompson 


Re: using blue flags

Tom Vanwormer
 

Bob,
Because Don Manlick passed away.
Tom VanWormer

thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

The blue flag decals mentioned in Tony's blog were from:

 

DM Custom Decals

Donald Manlick

2127 South 11th Street
Manitowoc, WI 54220

920-684-8688

 

I tried calling several times but after the phone was answered I was cut-off. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: using blue flags

Brian Termunde
 

Bruce is so right about the wealth of details. I also love the Santa Fe truck. Not the newest of models, but still clean and functional.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah



*********************************************

3c. Re: using blue flags
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" smithbf@... smithbf36832
Date: Wed May 3, 2017 5:28 am ((PDT))

This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags


> http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption
>
>
> Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.


Re: Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

Tony Thompson
 

     i have heard several WP experts state that the aluminum lettering quickly chalked to a white appearance, so that the choice of white or aluminum lettering is probably moot unless you are modeling a freshly outshopped car.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: using blue flags

rwitt_2000
 

I agree and there is the Western Union office, REA trucks behind the station, ...


Bob Witt


Re: Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Fenton,

The debate on the color of WP lettering will probably never be solved. Way back when, it was called "aluminum", but on dark freight cars built before about 1947 this described the pigment rather than the color, and it was visually white. In Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT, there is a photo of boxcar 20299 with silver lettering. This car was built in 1945, and is obviously a repaint. Eager says was introduced in 1951, but I believe the change came a bit earlier than that.

I am not sure if WP 20551-20800 delivered in 1947 had white or silver lettering, possibly the change was made in the middle of this series. Branchline did these cars both ways. Gondolas 6501-6600, delivered in 1945 most certainly came with white lettering, while the 1949 series 6601-6800 definitely were delivered with silver lettering.

The WP flirted with bankruptcy for most of the road's life, and was not really big on repainting cars. Many cars cars lived out their entire revenue and even MW lives in original paint. Any cars that were extensively rebuilt after 1947 and certainly by 1950 or so probably received silver lettering, but except for the rather obvious yellow lettering fling that began about 1955, general repaints were pretty rare.

The WP general arrangement for these drawings say the 14301-series was rebuilt with steel sides in 1938 (similar rebuilds stretched into 1941). Most of these cars were retired during the 1950s, and were probably never repainted. I suggest the correct lettering color, and background color for the herald, should be white.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/3/17 9:35 AM, srrfan1401@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I need the groups help again  I'm building one of the above referenced cars and need lettering information as I know very little about the Western Pacific railroad.   

Was the lettering seen on this car in the early 1950's white or silver.?  I have the Champ white lettering and silver lettering set and the white Microscale for the 50' OB cars.  If the lettering was changed by the railroad when did the change occur and what is the best guess for a car painted in the late 1940's likely to be ....white or silver lettering.

Thanking you all in advance

Fenton Wells




Re: Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

George Hollwedel
 

Late 40's should be silver

George Hollwedel 


On May 3, 2017, at 8:35 AM, srrfan1401@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I need the groups help again  I'm building one of the above referenced cars and need lettering information as I know very little about the Western Pacific railroad.   

Was the lettering seen on this car in the early 1950's white or silver.?  I have the Champ white lettering and silver lettering set and the white Microscale for the 50' OB cars.  If the lettering was changed by the railroad when did the change occur and what is the best guess for a car painted in the late 1940's likely to be ....white or silver lettering.

Thanking you all in advance

Fenton Wells



Western Pacific rebuilt boxcars 14301-14540

O Fenton Wells
 

I need the groups help again  I'm building one of the above referenced cars and need lettering information as I know very little about the Western Pacific railroad.   

Was the lettering seen on this car in the early 1950's white or silver.?  I have the Champ white lettering and silver lettering set and the white Microscale for the 50' OB cars.  If the lettering was changed by the railroad when did the change occur and what is the best guess for a car painted in the late 1940's likely to be ....white or silver lettering.

Thanking you all in advance

Fenton Wells



Re: using blue flags

Bruce Smith
 

This is one of my favorite Delano photos because of the wealth of details visible, starting with those blue flags, but including so much else, like the hooded headlight on the passenger loco, and then the wide freight house dock, the AT&SF boxcar, the hand trucks and barrels, the right of way, the servicing of the train (not just fuel and water, but mail, and maybe food and linens), the poised mail service for a train in the opposite direction, the obvious crew change occurring, the "sides" of the track (to the left, town, to the right, industry), the weathering on everything, even the clean things and of course, lots of passenger specific stuff not related to this list's interest. Classic Delano.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags

Hi Dennis and List Members,

Also a blue flag on the tank car as well.

Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] using blue flags


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption


Note the blue flag on the engineer's side of the pilot, back when they were still flags.


Dennis Storzek

45521 - 45540 of 194796