Date   

Re: Truss Rod Cars

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for the explanation and links to those excellent photos Dennis – that makes it all very clear. 

 

Makes me think a nice detail part to model that would be useful to some of us.

 

Rob

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 10:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Truss Rod Cars

 



More...

 

Can't find a good isometric drawing of a wood car frame, but this picture might help:

 

http://www.drhs315.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/121008-58-draft-gear-B-end-w1.jpg

 

It shows metal draft arms on a D&RGW narrow gauge gondola. Note the prominent springs of the Cardwell draft gear. The body bolster, still to be installed, fits in the notch behind the draft arms and the sub sills attached to the bottom of the center sills.

 

Since railroad cars usually lose their draft gear from a hard coupling impact, the combination of the metal draft arms, bolsters, and sub sills fitted tightly in between the bolsters transmitted buffing forces straight through the car to the other end, and supposedly the next car in line. The problem is, they don't do anything for heavy draft (pulling forces) which is why they were superseded by full steel sills during the thirties.

 

More photos and commentary here:

 

 

Dennis Storzek

 





Re: Paint color for Galvanized metal.

Tony Thompson
 

I am going to paint some LV wrong way Boxcars and it appears their roofs where not painted.   Does anybody have a convincing paint color or recipe for one?  I don't mind if it is acrylic or oil base paint.  Just something I can order off of ebay


      Galvanized is silvery when fresh, but soon becomes gray and flat, not shiny. I think a light to medium gray is fine, and of course, since roofs got so dirty in that era, it better be a dirty gray.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Truss Rod Cars

destorzek@...
 

More...

Can't find a good isometric drawing of a wood car frame, but this picture might help:

http://www.drhs315.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/121008-58-draft-gear-B-end-w1.jpg

 

It shows metal draft arms on a D&RGW narrow gauge gondola. Note the prominent springs of the Cardwell draft gear. The body bolster, still to be installed, fits in the notch behind the draft arms and the sub sills attached to the bottom of the center sills.

Since railroad cars usually lose their draft gear from a hard coupling impact, the combination of the metal draft arms, bolsters, and sub sills fitted tightly in between the bolsters transmitted buffing forces straight through the car to the other end, and supposedly the next car in line. The problem is, they don't do anything for heavy draft (pulling forces) which is why they were superseded by full steel sills during the thirties.

More photos and commentary here:


Dennis Storzek


Paint color for Galvanized metal.

Scott
 

I am going to paint some LV wrong way Boxcars and it appears their roofs where not painted.   Does anybody have a convincing paint color or recipe for one?  I don't mind if it is acrylic or oil base paint.  Just something I can order off of ebay.


Secondly,  were the seam caps painted or left raw.  Seems to be both ways in pictures,


Thank you,

Scott McDonald


Re: Truss Rod Cars

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Rob kirkham wrote:

 
Any idea what “metal draft arms” means?  I find this hard to follow.

   Dennis Storzek can probably give the definitive a;newer but I understand the draft arms to be the connection from the center sill and/or bolster, to the draft gear itself.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
==========================================

Precisely. Find yourself a drawing of a wood underframe car. You will note that the sills that run from end to end are above the level of the drawbar, so that the end sill does not have to be cut. The body bolsters  pass beneath all the sills to support them, and there are short stub sills that run from the bolster outward, bolted and keyed to the center sills. These are called "draft sills" or "draft arms" and the "draft stops" that the "draft gear" bears against are bolted to their inner faces..

As trains got heavier, all these wood to metal connections were found to be a problem; the wood would wear at the connections and pretty soon things would come apart, usually under buffing load. An early fix was to replace the draft sills with metal, as I recall often castings that incorporated the draft stops in their design. They also supposedly had better attachment to the wood center sills. These were an improvement, but do not qualify as a steel center sill, which is why they are called out in rosters.

The next step in improvement was to replace the  draft arms or draft sills with long channels that ran from one end of the car to the other, modifying the bolster so they could pass through. These DID qualify as steel center sills, although the rest of the floor and body framing could still be wood, in which case truss rods were still needed to keep the body from sagging.

Eventually design evolved to where the space formerly occupied by the wood sills was used for larger section steel sills, and the wood sills morphed into floor stringers for the attachment of the wood flooring. then even these became steel, and the flooring was attached by bolt-on clips.

Dennis Storzek







PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIAS

okiemax
 

I have the following 5 books up for auction on ebay:


RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, RP CYC VOLUME 4  


RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, RP CYC VOLUME 5 


THE POSTWAR FREIGHT CAR FLEET


PROTOTYPE RAILROAD MODELING, VOLUME I 


CAR BUILDER'S CYCLOPEDIA, 21st EDITION, 1961





Re: Truss Rod Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Rob kirkham wrote:

 
Any idea what “metal draft arms” means?  I find this hard to follow.

   Dennis Storzek can probably give the definitive a;newer but I understand the draft arms to be the connection from the center sill and/or bolster, to the draft gear itself.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Truss Rod Cars

Robert kirkham
 

Any idea what “metal draft arms” means?  I find this hard to follow.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Truss Rod Cars

 





I read a statement which claimed that "Cars with truss rods were banned from interchange in 1952".
Was there such a ban or prohibition, or did this have more to do with cars having wooden underframes
rather than "truss rods" as such?
Bob Chaparro



Bob

Not banned, at least not prior to 1961 ...

Guy Wilber posted this information about WOOD UNDERFRAMES some time ago.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/topics/14935

Tim O'Connor




Re: Truss Rod Cars

Bill Welch
 

While not in large numbers both FGE and WFE operated truss rod reefers into the mid-fifites and beyond. In the early 1920's both companies had rebuild their truss rod cars with steel center sills. Most were 25-ton capacity cars.

Bill Welch


Re: Truss Rod Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I read a statement which claimed that "Cars with truss rods were banned from interchange in 1952".
Was there such a ban or prohibition, or did this have more to do with cars having wooden underframes
rather than "truss rods" as such?
Bob Chaparro


Bob

Not banned, at least not prior to 1961 ...

Guy Wilber posted this information about WOOD UNDERFRAMES some time ago.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/conversations/topics/14935

Tim O'Connor


Davenport train show

Roger Kujawa
 

Davenport train show

Don't miss the Midwest's premiere train show May 6th 2017
at the Mississippi Valley Fairgrounds from 9:30 am  to 4pm

Meet the Canadian Pacific Railroad Police safety team and pick up Operation Lifesaver safety giveaways. The Burlington, Milwaukee and Chicago Northwestern historical societies will also be in attendance along with various operating train layouts.
Meet 97X radio personality and railroader Bill Michaels and see his sawmill display.

There will also be  90 vendors with 300 plus tables of model trains, photos, and memorabilia for sale. Experience some of the great railroad history of the Quad Cities.. Concessions will be available along with free parking.  It's the Best Train Show on Two Rails

Thanks,
Roger Kujawa


Re: using blue flags

John Barry
 

Yes,

That is the truck/color scheme I mentioned.  Interesting to note the Orange-Red cab matches the nose of the E-1, but the stake panels look like the redder Indian Red famous on the post-war diesels.  And yes, the fenders look black to me, especially contrasted with the light blue herald on the door.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 12:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: using blue flags

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

John,

In the Delano images, did you also notice the ATSF service vehicle? I  It looks like a Dodge (power wagon?) painted ATSF orange with blue trim and probably there to provide support materials for the diesel fuel tank cars.

Regards,

Bob Witt
=====================

I don't think Dodge started using the Power Wagon name for civilian vehicles until after the war. From the little of the horizontal grill I can see, looks like it could be an International, but really, it could be a lot of things.

And, I don't think the fenders and frame are blue, but rather black. Black fenders on any color truck were pretty common back in those days.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Truss Rod Cars

Dave Parker
 

Bob:

There is no such ban on truss rods that I can see in the widely circulated Jeff English tabulation of AAR interchange dates.  That of course doesn't mean that one doesn't exist, it's just not in the handiest reference.

The wood UF ban dates back to the early 1930s.  I believe Guy Wilber places the final drop-dead date as 1/1/1935.  But cars with steel UFs (often rebuilt) still bore truss rods well into the 1930s and beyond.

Best,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Roommate for Collinsville.

Jared Harper
 

I am looking for a roommate for the Collinsville RPM meet.  If you are interested contact me directly.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: RF Refrigerator Cars

Bruce Smith
 

They are plain jane ice reefers - R or RS

The RF comes from the fact that they were the 6th design in the R class for the PRR.  It was preceded by the RA, RB, RD and RE (no evidence that RC was built). Following the RF, the PRR switched to a numerical designator for the R7, which like the RF was a member of a standardized group of cars, the X23, X34, K7 and K7A.

-Bruce

On May 4, 2017, at 1:45 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Thank you, Bruce and Ben.


So where does the RF refrigerator car fit in the AAR mechanical designations?


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA






Re: RF Refrigerator Cars

Bill Welch
 

Thanks to others that have contributed to answering Bob's question. I am not sure where I found the linked photo but it is a good representation of what an "RF" looked like FGE/National Car Co. service. The new FGE also acquired some PRR "RE" types too, short cars w/truss rods. The 36/37 foot cars that FGE acquired were outdated for shipping produce but were ideal for shipping meat. I forgot to check before I started writing this message but I think there are photos of the NX 36-footers over in the "Shake_N_Take" Yahoo Group.

Note that the RF type had a vertical grab on the ends because of the way the end sill extened. Hinges are unique Pennsy style, unsure of the manufacturer.


Not sure where I found this image but need to find its source for a higher quality photo
Bill Welch


Re: RF Refrigerator Cars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Thank you, Bruce and Ben.


So where does the RF refrigerator car fit in the AAR mechanical designations?


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Re: RF Refrigerator Cars

Bruce Smith
 

To add to Ben’s response, the RF refrigerator was part of a family of PRR cars based on certain standard characteristics that included the XL boxcar, the KF stock car and RF refrigerator. These cars all shared a steel under frame.  The RF in FGEX and then NX colors served until just after the end of WWII.

All three classes are available in HO from Westerfield.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On May 4, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro asked:
"My question is, what is an RF reefer?"

PRR Class RF.

Ben Hom


Re: RF Refrigerator Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"My question is, what is an RF reefer?"

PRR Class RF.


Ben Hom


RF Refrigerator Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Hello, Bill -


Recently I was reading a copy of your article, The Wood Sheathed Cars of the


FGEX/WFEX/BREX Freight Refrigerator Fleet: 1940-1953.


In the middle of Page 16 it reads, "On that same date the Pennsylvania Railroad Company sells FGEX 2,676 "RF" type 36-foot reefers, which had previously been under lease. On the same day a lease takes effect for FGEX to use 264 New York, New Haven & Hartford refrigerator cars."


My question is, what is an RF reefer?


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


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