Date   
Re: GN dump cars in 1936

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Carl,

I will take a look at the code tomorrow.

Claus

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Jack Burgess' jack@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936


Richard…



Those cars are available as resin kits from Westerfield. The YV had 51 of them. There is a prototype and model photo on my website at



http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/modeling/available-yv-models



and just over halfway down.



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 4:53 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936








By GN ore cars I assume you are referring to the shorty steel ore cars like those once modeled by Varney, MDC, and Walthers (essentially single-bay hoppers).



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR





-----Original Message-----
From: Gary vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936



If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars. Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy iron ore.



Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock
On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I forgot to put a subject on my original post.



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR





-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]



I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR
















------------------------------------
Posted by: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Railway Prototype Cyclopedia questions

Jared Harper
 

I an wondering if the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia had articles on the USRA box car rebuilds, and on the SS USRA box cars?


Jared Harper

Athens, GA

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks, Gary.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 5:11 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936

 
Yes, those are the cars and they were bottom dump cars for use on the ore docks. 
 
Gary Laakso
South of Mike Brock
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 7:53 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936
 
 
By GN ore cars I assume you are referring to the shorty steel ore cars like those once modeled by Varney, MDC, and Walthers (essentially single-bay hoppers).
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936
 
If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars.  Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy  iron ore.
 
Gary Laakso
south of Mike Brock


On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
I forgot to put a subject on my original post.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]
 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

Jack Burgess
 

Richard…



Those cars are available as resin kits from Westerfield. The YV had 51 of them. There is a prototype and model photo on my website at



http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/modeling/available-yv-models



and just over halfway down.



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 4:53 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936








By GN ore cars I assume you are referring to the shorty steel ore cars like those once modeled by Varney, MDC, and Walthers (essentially single-bay hoppers).



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR





-----Original Message-----
From: Gary vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936



If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars. Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy iron ore.



Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock
On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I forgot to put a subject on my original post.



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR





-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]



I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

gary laakso
 

Yes, those are the cars and they were bottom dump cars for use on the ore docks. 

 

Gary Laakso

South of Mike Brock

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 7:53 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936

 

 

By GN ore cars I assume you are referring to the shorty steel ore cars like those once modeled by Varney, MDC, and Walthers (essentially single-bay hoppers).

 

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936

 

If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars.  Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy  iron ore.

 

Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock


On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I forgot to put a subject on my original post.

 

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]

 

I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  

 

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

Richard Townsend
 

By GN ore cars I assume you are referring to the shorty steel ore cars like those once modeled by Varney, MDC, and Walthers (essentially single-bay hoppers).
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN dump cars in 1936

 
If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars.  Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy  iron ore.

Gary Laakso
south of Mike Brock


On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
I forgot to put a subject on my original post.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]

 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Jon Miller
 

On 5/9/2017 1:53 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] wrote:
It is my understanding that Athearn bought out Globe in the early 1950s.
    True.
The steel boxcars and reefers were continued for a while, and eventually sold off to other producers.
    Menzies, or something like that.
It is possible that Athearn didn't continue the Globe tank cars.
    It's my understanding that the Globe tank cars were close to scale and 2 or 3 different types (someone mentioned a 2 dome).  Very hard to find now.


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Don't be chicken

Jon Miller
 

On 5/9/2017 12:55 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
Remember, chickens of that era didn't have our present day obesity problems :-)

    Sorta of off topic but I have some chickens, farm yard type.  They eat and get fat and couldn't fly over a fence.  However my neighbors have what are called "jungle fowl".  I watched one of the birds fly 40 feet up (to one of my oaks) to get away from a dog.  Point, a skinny chicken could be hard to catch and/or load!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

gary laakso
 

If they are hauling iron ore, my money is that they are GN ore cars.  Otherwise the ore would have to be emptied from the ore car to another type of car not designed for heavy  iron ore.

Gary Laakso
south of Mike Brock


On May 9, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I forgot to put a subject on my original post.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]

 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

Re: GN dump cars in 1936

Richard Townsend
 

I forgot to put a subject on my original post.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, May 9, 2017 9:29 am
Subject: [STMFC]

 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

Re: Don't be chicken

George Eichelberger
 

Dennis:

Nothing inside the Southern cars at all.

Re the SNB article, in a railroad owned style of car style if there were 60,000 “head” in fifteen cars, we have approx 4,000 birds per car. If they made it to NYC in 24 (less?) hours, would that meet the “hog law” for chickens and not require an attendant? Did that rule even exist in 1919.

Ike

PS I am having a hard time believing 6,600,000 eggs! Carried in ? vent box cars?

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Jon,

I wasn't really around then (well not old enough for anything but wooden trains). It is my understanding that Athearn bought out Globe in the early 1950s. The steel boxcars and reefers were continued for a while, and eventually sold off to other producers. It is possible that Athearn didn't continue the Globe tank cars.

In any case, the car in hand is a dead ringer for the plastic Athearn tank, but actually a more accurate model.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/9/17 2:22 PM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

On 5/9/2017 11:06 AM, mguill1224@... [STMFC] wrote:
old Globe and Athearn metal tank cars

    This is old memory as I don't have my old metal Athearn handy but I think the Globe and Athearn were different cars.  Never had a Globe.  I seem to remember that at least the dome on the metal Athearn was the same as the plastic one.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Don't be chicken

Douglas Harding
 

As I have one photo of a poultry car with a sign saying a load of pigeons, it is quite possible the reference to 4000 birds was pigeons not chickens, certainly not turkeys.

 

Anyone old enough to remember grandma packing the chicken coop to take them to market in town? I have a vague memory, and think the coop was stuffed full. They were in there tight, but the trip was short.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 2:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Don't be chicken

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Given the ORER info I cited of 1760 Square Feet of coop space, each coop (cage, compartment, whatever) would be 13.75 sq.ft., or just under 2000 square inches. Divide that by 31 birds, and each bird gets 64 square inches, or about an 8" square to roost in. Tight, but doable. At least they won't fall down due to slack runs, etc.

 

Remember, chickens of that era didn't have our present day obesity problems :-)

 

Dennis Storzek

Re: St. Louis RPM Vendors and Historical Societies

Bill Welch
 

Be sure to specify it is for the RPM because some of the rooms are blocked specifically for this event.

Bill Welch

Re: Don't be chicken

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Given the ORER info I cited of 1760 Square Feet of coop space, each coop (cage, compartment, whatever) would be 13.75 sq.ft., or just under 2000 square inches. Divide that by 31 birds, and each bird gets 64 square inches, or about an 8" square to roost in. Tight, but doable. At least they won't fall down due to slack runs, etc.


Remember, chickens of that era didn't have our present day obesity problems :-)


Dennis Storzek

Re: Don't be chicken

Douglas Harding
 

Don and all, the poultry car in St Louis, for which I have an interior photo, had cages built into the car structure. There was no “shelf” on which you slid a chicken coop. Which means the chickens were loaded by hand. It is possible the chicken coup was carried into the center walkway and birds transferred from coop to cage. The walkway looks to be 30” in width, not 24”. There were end doors, but it is quite possible the birds were carried through the attendants room, as most photos show vehicles pulled up to the attendants door.

 

Now some car designs may have been set to load/stack chicken coops. But I have not seen photos that would suggest coops were loaded on the cars. I do have one photo of an ACF car, lettered for FC Brown Company, that appears to be one giant bird cage. Think of a stockcar covered with chicken wire instead of slats. Perhaps it was setup to stack chicken coops inside. I don’t know as the car is empty. The car was built in 1904 and was numbered 104. I has no center attendants room.

 

The typical poultry car was divided into two compartments, with attendants room in the middle. Each end/compartment had 8 levels, of 4 cages per level, per side. IE 32 cages per side, per compartment. Thus 128 cages per car. The capacity of each cage would depend upon the size of the bird. Pidgeons are much smaller than turkeys. I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 10:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Don't be chicken

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :

On 5/8/2017 2:23 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

for a total of 128 compartments, for a grand total of 2,000, maybe 2,500 birds per car.

    I'm misunderstanding something here.  Are we saying they would have to load 2-2.5K chickens using a 24" wide passage way?  Seems like that would take a long time.  I'm picturing in my mind two birds in each hand, opening and closing each cage, etc.

 
 
    That's what I had wondered for some years as well, Jon, until the comment was made that what we are seeing in the cars were crates loaded onto  rails or racks. That makes sense. The standard chicken crate that I am familiar with is roughly 4 ft. long, 3 ft. wide and 1 1/2 ft. high with a wooden hinged opening near the center of the top. Can't recall how many birds were put in each crate but it wold obviously be easier to load a crate off of the car and then place the entire crate onto racks built into the car, probably on crate on each side of the central aisle but how many on top of one another I don't know.
Cordially, Don Valentine


 

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Jon Miller
 

On 5/9/2017 11:06 AM, mguill1224@... [STMFC] wrote:
old Globe and Athearn metal tank cars

    This is old memory as I don't have my old metal Athearn handy but I think the Globe and Athearn were different cars.  Never had a Globe.  I seem to remember that at least the dome on the metal Athearn was the same as the plastic one.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Don't be chicken

Dennis Storzek
 

It sounds like we are talking about two different business models here. The Southern Ry. example presented by George Eichelberger sounds like a bulk movement of birds for a single customer, likely the consignee, perhaps a packing house. It is possible the consignee owned the coops, and distributed them to farmers who were under contract to raise chickens for them. Ike says the Sou. cars have no racks or coops, although it is unclear to me if they had the compartment for the attendant.

The way the Live Poultry Transit Co. business is being explained, it sounds like the car was either leased or assigned to the attendant, who arranged to have it moved from station to station, collecting birds from local farmers as he went, until he either ran out of room or birds offered for sale, then arranged for the car to head to market. Under this system, returning coops would be a nightmare.

I looked up the LPTX listing in the Feb. 1929 ORER; at that time they had 2200 cars, 35'-10" IL, 9'-6" IH, 9'-11" IW, capacity 1760 sq.ft. of coop space, 20,000 pounds of poultry. It firther states, "Each of these cars contains 128 permanent coops." It looks like each permanent coop was about 3'-6" x 3'-9" x 131/2" high.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Hugh Guillaume
 

I too like the old Globe and Athearn metal tank cars.  I have a few.  But I do not have a two-dome Globe tank car.  I would like to have one – either GATX, UTLX or SHPX.  Hugh T Guillaume

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

Jeffrey White
 

David,

Which series box car is it? I have several undecs in my unbuilt kits stash.  I would trade you an undec for your car if I have the right one.

Jeff White

Alma, IL


On 5/8/2017 9:41 PM, 'David Jobe, Sr.' tangerine_flyer@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Unfortunately, 91% Isopropyl alcohol barely touches the paint.  It did get most of the lettering though.

 

David Jobe, Sr.

Saint Ann, Missouri

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 7:37 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

 




Have you tried 91% Isopropyl alcohol?

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


On May 8, 2017, at 6:30 PM, 'David North' david.north@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Because the undec version of this series is out of stock at all our suppliers.

Cheers

Dave