Date   

Re: Terminology

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I'm a little surprised by the fact that no one has mentioned this (this
time around) ...

There were definitely two 'languages' regarding a lot of the terminology
in use by railroaders. Specifically the use of different names for things
that occurred between the road/field crews (the guys on the 'ground')
and the engineering departments (the guys in the 'offices'). Neither
was "wrong" - it was just what words they used - every day.
The 'industry publications' tended to use the same terms that the
guys in the offices used ... it was who they were dealing with daily.

****

I'm also considerably surprised ... and even a little bit disappointed ...
that guys I consider to be 'giants in our hobby' have -again- deemed it
important to roll out this recurring topic and opine at length on the
'correctness' of one term or another.
To me - both sides are well known and understood by the members
of this list and we should just give it a rest.
In addition - whether I call it a switch or a turnout ... you all know
what I'm talking about ... so what's the big deal about which word I
use? Are you a brakeman or a 'suit'? I try to modify my usage based
upon the role I think you fill.

****

On the other hand - if I call something a "ponger" just because I
find it difficult to spell/type/say "diaphragm" when the entire
industry and most other hobbyists call it by only one name ... I'm
'wrong' (although you still know what I'm talking about).

BUT - when we, as hobbyists, use our own term within the hobby
for something that the industry (either segment) didn't ever use ...
I agree that it's 'wrong' for us to do so. Even though I know what
you are talking about when you use those terms - I tend to correct
you.

===> Hopefully, when I do so, I do it in a way that doesn't
offend you and you learn and start using the correct
term rather than an incorrect one.

My preferred method of doing that 'correction' is to simply use
the correct term when responding - without pointing out what I'm
doing nor even without my emphasizing the correct term - and
you 'pick up' on it without having had it "pointed out to you".
- Jim B.


Re: Terminology

Arianne Coble
 

 Oh man, why in the world would you want to bring this up again? The terminology discussion seems to come up from time to time and to what end. Are we filling out legal documents? Are we on trial or giving a deposition? I find these discussions to be circle arguments. For example, as has been mentioned and references sited, the term switch and turnout are accurate and appropriate to describe the same piece of track arrangement, so why must we argue over which one to use? It does little in the way of promoting clarity, help us model better, or for that matter discuss issues. Here in the real world we are trying to communicate with one another, so as long as the listener or reader understands what the speaker or writer is communicating what on earth does the “proper” term matter? It tends to remind me of someone during a conversation who mid sentence corrects you on the grammar error you made.
Kyle Coble Auburn Indiana


Re: Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

John Barry
 

Eric,

Thanks,  I've not had a chance to examine this on my larger screen.  Do you have a number series and know when they retired?  It would be a very interesting variation to model.  A little late in the same album is another photo with more of these unique ends plus another Hutchins ended gon.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2017 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

 
John,
The Monon had a number of gondolas with this kind of pressed steel end reminiscent of a Van Dorn end. If you look closely at the gondola with this end, you can make out part of MONON in the shadow near the top left corner of the car.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On July 1, 2017 at 10:20 PM "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" wrote:



Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC YahooGroup
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation

 
 


In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation.  Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation.  Any ideas whose car this is?  The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side.  I think I found a project for my vaccuform!
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736
 





Posted by: John Barry



Re: Tank Cars On The SP

Paul Deis
 

What cars did the SP use to ship the oil into San Luis Obispo for Loco fuel for steam engines?

Paul Deis



Paul Deis
D&P Mountain Railroad
SP Santa Margarita Sub





Turnout Terminology

Andy Carlson
 

I wasn't "attempting to be funny", I was sarcastically expressing my annoyance with attempts over the decades to SUBSTITUTE the word "Turnout' for switch. Sure, most recognize what a turnout is, but it is an unnecessary addition which does not add utility for our uses. The example of moving parts vs. non-moving parts is not the reason most users of "turnout" are conveying. So maybe both are synonymous terms; then why the effort to abandon the term "Switch" which EVERYONE knows simply because "Turnout" was/is used sometimes by the various non-operations departments?

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"

 
Andy Carlson wrote:

 
Let the industry's practitioners define the terms. RR turnout jobs, head and rear turnout men, throw the turnout on the main, and my favorite--Turnout stands.
Switches are little chromium toggles for electricity! (snark)

    Andy is of course attempting to be funny. But the fact is, the term "turnout" is NOT, repeat NOT, just a modelers' term. It is well embedded in prototype usage, when it is necessary to distinguish between the movable part and the fixed part of the track arrangement. You can look it up. But prototype usage, both in track engineering and in signaling, tends to use the two terms as synonyms. In other words, despite Andy's snarky language, a prototype railroader would NOT be confused by the term "turnout" for a track switch.
    It's true that Model Railroader magazine editors, years ago, decided to refer always to track switches as turnouts, to obtain separation from electrical switches, but that does not affect the prototype language. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Silicon for attaching weights

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

CLEAR silicone is not an adhesive (usually so warned on the label) but has an uncanny ability to simply grab onto a surface, fingers of silicone locking into any crevice, or irregularity. . The objects so joined can be resilient to mild stresses, but when separated, the silicone just peels off. This characteristic makes it quite useful in mounting new can motors in brass locomotives, and I have done so for about 20 years. . Flat featureless or painted surfaces are a recipe for failure. It is also pretty inert, probably the reason that it is commonly used to seal aquariums, and probably exactly why it has so poor adhesive qualities.

The blue Barge Cement in the small consumer tubes holds as well as the old yellow (only now available in bulk amounts). The blue is not as easy to work (more stringy-ness), but it is certainly manageable. As Tony Thompson avers, contact cements properly applied, like Barge, GOO, or Pliobond, provide incredibly strong lasting adhesion, virtually all failures that I have experienced (I have used them in modeling since the ‘50s) have been substrate failure, i.e. peeling paint, deteriorating or poor surface preparation, etc. Non destructive separation does not become an option.

Canopy and Kwik Clear: Sleeper adhesives that are incredibly useful for modelers. I do think that too much may be asked of these adhesives inasmuch as they are simply not the strongest.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento CA


Re: Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

Eric Hansmann
 

John,

The Monon had a number of gondolas with this kind of pressed steel end reminiscent of a Van Dorn end. If you look closely at the gondola with this end, you can make out part of MONON in the shadow near the top left corner of the car.


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



On July 1, 2017 at 10:20 PM "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Two more of this distinctive end, spotted next to a composite gon with a Hutchins end.



 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola with coiled end corrugation

 
 


In the Wabash album of the Barrenger collection is this gondola with a very unusual end corrugation.  Looks like a coiled form was used to press the continuous corregation.  Any ideas whose car this is?  The same pattern end is on the opposite end as you can see the hollow side.  I think I found a project for my vaccuform!
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736
 





Posted by: John Barry <northbaylines@...>


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Craig Zeni
 

On Jul 2, 2017, at 8:39 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

10b. Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656
Posted by: "Don Burn" burn@... don_burn
Date: Sun Jul 2, 2017 4:51 am ((PDT))

Anyone have comments on the accuracy / quality of the BLI model?
Reasonably good and an easy way to get a very common car on your layout but....weird truck mounts and the trucks themselves are pretty ghastly...very flat and with the wheel ribs *printed* on the backside of the wheels. That weird mount makes it more work than should be necessary to swap trucks. Andy Sperandeo figured out a way to do it (I think that's in the STMFC group files); when I used one of the BLI cars as a basis for a DL&W car I pitched the entire floor and used a Tichy underframe. And with that DL&W car the only parts of the BLI car I actually used were the body and the doors. The rest went in the trash as part of either upgrading or matching prototype details. I still couldn't match the oddball DL&W dreadnaught ends but that's another story all together...

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Terminology

Craig Zeni
 

On Jul 2, 2017, at 12:20 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

And, of
course, what do you think about the term "Turnout"?

Mike Brock
A turnout discussion? On a freight car list? Now that's a switch.

I'll get my hat and show myself out.....


Craig Zeni
"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Bill Welch
 

I thought it was clunky and did not buy any as I have a stash of Westerfield kits.

Bill Welch


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Terry Link
 

The Westerfield site indicates that the NYC cars in the 2900 series kits are
to be reissued:

http://www.westerfieldmodels.com./118401.html


Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario
www.canadasouthern.com

-----Original Message-----
From: fgexbill@... [STMFC]

Makes sense as the styrene Broadway Limited release would have killed sales
of a resin kit. Maybe it will be available again at some point/

Bill Welch


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Jeff Sankus
 

All
I have been in contact with Westerfield( Andrew Dahm) about resurrecting the #2900 kit that builds the car in question as well as the 700 series Northampton & Bath. The #2900 kits will be available again, though Andrew did say there are a couple of projects ahead of the 2900 and he would like to "tweak" the 2900 molds.

Jeff Sankus

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 7:49 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Makes sense as the styrene Broadway Limited release would have killed sales of a resin kit. Maybe it will be available again at some point/


Bill Welch



Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Don Burn
 

Anyone have comments on the accuracy / quality of the BLI model?

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2017 7:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656



Makes sense as the styrene Broadway Limited release would have killed sales of a resin kit. Maybe it will be available again at some point/

Bill Welch


Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Bill Welch
 

Makes sense as the styrene Broadway Limited release would have killed sales of a resin kit. Maybe it will be available again at some point/

Bill Welch


MAIN train with passenger and equipment

John Barry
 

From the Barringer Unknowns Album a unit move of personnel and equipment at the Desert Training Area



 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


Re: Silicon for attaching weights

nvrr49@...
 

Liquid Nails Clear Silicone ADHESIVE. http://www.liquidnails.com/en-US/products/green-glue-LN207?wt.mc_id=ln17ps-b&wt.tsrc=Paid%20Search&gclid=CJfXkuK_6tQCFUK4wAod3nAA3A

Having worked for Liquid Nails, it is an adhesive. Just about every manufacturer of caulks and adhesives makes a similar product.

Kent Hurley
KC, MO
nvrr49.blogspot.com


Re: questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks, Rupert, but I don't model the war years but shortly thereafter. Understandbly that during the war many of the only system-wide used cars came into the pool for nation-wide use to ease an speed-up traffic.
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 02. Juli 2017 um 03:57 Uhr
Von: "'Rupert & Maureen' gamlenz@... [STMFC]"
An: STMFC@...
Betreff: RE: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering
 

 

There is a note in the 1943-1945 ORER’s in respect of all CB&Q (and presumably other companies’) company service tank cars -

“Cars in series 230000-231601 are temporarily assigned to commercial service and are on mileage basis effective March 1, 1943 as covered by A. A. R. Circular T-117-L.”

So, if you were modelling this period ………

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2017 1:20 p.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering

 

Johannes,

 

That car would really probably only be appropriate for someone modeling MKT.  Railroad owned tanks cars rarely if ever made it off line.  They were typically in some sort of company service, although a small number were used in commercial interchange service.

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


Re: questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks, Bruce. One more issue: -for how long would the lettering M.K.&T.Ry have been in use? All engines and rolling stock I have seen at pictures of the transition era were lettered just MKT or "The Katy" - but I am by now means an expert on this.
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 02. Juli 2017 um 03:19 Uhr
Von: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
An: "STMFC@..."
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering
 

 

Johannes,

 

That car would really probably only be appropriate for someone modeling MKT.  Railroad owned tanks cars rarely if ever made it off line.  They were typically in some sort of company service, although a small number were used in commercial interchange service.

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of j.markwart@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 4:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering
 


Hello friends,

I found the following offer of a W&R tank car:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M-K-T-Katy-High-Walkway-Tank-Car-1-Dome-W-R-Enterprises-AC-F-6-000-GAL/282541463687?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

-which in my eyes looks very nice and just needs weathering.
But as I have even less knowledge about tank cars compared to other cars, I have the following questions:
- is this a prototypical paint job correct for this car?
- does it match my time frame of late 1940s to early 1950s?
- could this car be seen in a(ny) typical freight train, or is it something special (e. g. fuel car mostly sitting in a depot, etc.)?

Many thanks

Johannes
 
 

 


Treasure trove of SoCal MAIN trains in Barringer Collection

John Barry
 




EXTRA 3741 with hooded class lights

This is only one of more than a dozen wartime photos Barringer took in October 1942.  They are in the Flicker album Barringer Unknowns


If you are interested in MAIN trains or how southern California looked during WWII, this grab bag of 602 otherwise uncatagorized photos is worth scrolling through.


 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


Re: Silicon for attaching weights

ron christensen
 

I have used Dap clear silicon adhesive to stick plastic miniature switches to homemade metal  snap switch machines for well over 10 years and have never had a failure. I think clamping the items together is the reason for success. It also works well glueing figures to the layout, just peal them off if you want  to move them.
Ron Christensen

46221 - 46240 of 196982