Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Automobile Shipping

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

Jumping in late; I am not certain about the earliest date(s), but I have found photos and limited correspondence, on the PRR, on auto shipments in the twenties, shipped on their tires, blocked. They were rolled out through the double side doors onto a loading dock.

There were literally hundreds of damage claims filed on the RRs in this trade, since no one could prove the RR didn't damage the cars. This was particularly aggravating to RR leadership, who were spending lots of time training people how to load cars so they did not get away and cause damage.

I'll share more as I get it.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping



Well, RJ, I am in the process of building a model of a box car that was built in January 1942 as an automobile car. It’s definitely a 10’-6” IH car, but it’s even labeled on the side as a 10’-4” IH car because it was originally equipped with racks, reducing the clear IH by 2”. So the railroads anticipated shipping automobiles in box cars at least into the early 40s.

They didn’t ship many, of course, because most auto manufacturers were converting their factories to make war materiel.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 4:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping

Thanks Bruce,

I've seen the replies in the past that the info is in conversation history and in the photos section, and I think "what a newbie". Until now when it is my turn! Ya know, I searched all 3 "Misc" and "Miscellaneous" folders, plus searched prior message history back to 2001. Nada. Did find a scan of an auto-rack loading damage form though in the photo section. Lots of pictures of model Auto cars.

A Google search found 2 pictures of actual boxcar loading in the 30's-40's, but no unloading.

So maybe the question is, were Automobile boxcars actually used to deliver cars from the factory to the dealers for any length of time? I figured there would be more images out there if they were.

Attempting to keep the rolling stock fleet balanced and find a use of all these automobile boxcars I tend to build/acquire.

Thx,

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA

---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

​RJ,

There are several photos in the Miscellaneous album on the group page. There include an N&W automobile car with the Evans loaders down and in position to receive a car as well as a photo with the car loaded in the upper position.

A search of the Conversations of this group will also yield much more information.

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

_____

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of radiodial@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 9:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping

I've never actually seen pictures of loading/unloading of driveable cars in Automobile boxcars. Mainly interested in the 1930s-1940's. Are there any? From period newspaper accounts I gather that is how the cars were delivered to the far flung dealers in towns across America then.

Follow-up question is would the boxcars have been only from railroad(s) that served that manufacturing plant? For example, Yarmouth's nice looking CPR Automobile boxcar, would you expect to see it delivering cars only from factories that the CPR served? Or could it end up loaded with cars from Detroit for example?

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Automobile Shipping

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <srrfan1401@...> wrote :

 I wonder who was responsible for damage to vehicles if a lazy or incompetent operator made a mistake.
AAHHHH the good old days

--
Fenton Wells
====================

Like any other shipment.The railroad spotted the car for loading. The consignor, usually the manufacture, loaded the car with his people. If they damaged something, it was on them. If there was a history of excessive damage claims, the RR had the right to inspect the load before the car was sealed.

The railroad(s) then moved the car to it's destination.

When the consignee, usually a dealer, opened the car, first order of business was to inspect for damage. Damage claims were a lot easier if the damaged load was inspected before unloading., as the railroad would claim the damage was done during unloading, which would then be the responsibility of the consignee.

If no damage, the dealer's people then unloaded the car. Any damage done during unloading was on them.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Automobile Shipping

O Fenton Wells
 

I'm no expert by any means but while digging into railroad history in Sanford NC we found a team track (now long gone) near downtown on the A&Y.  Several "old timers' told us that the box car would be spotted at the ramp on the team track and the local dealer had to come down and unload the autos.  The railroad did not do it.  I wonder who was responsible for damage to vehicles if a lazy or incompetent operator made a mistake.
AAHHHH the good old days

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

mwbauers
 

Craft beading wire is available as square brass wire, 0.020 thick, 4-meter long coils, at $7

You'll have to use the classic pull method to get straight rod out of the coiled wire. But brass pull-straightens very easily. It's a very old method that has long been used in the hobby.


Mike Bauers

On Jul 9, 2017, at 2:40 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

A square brake shaft on the "B" end of a boxcar would be vey cool I think


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

mwbauers
 

Square brass wire, also NS wire and if you'd care to use it, square silver wire is a stock supply in the fine arts jewelry makers supply stores.

It's quite possible that our past hobby suppliers of the stuff sourced it from them.


Mike Bauers

On Jul 9, 2017, at 7:15 PM, "destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Where square stock was universally used was drop brakes on flatcars, since the whole staff had to slip through the ratchet wheel, and should be functional at any point between fully raised to fully retracted.

Special Shapes Co. used to have .020" square brass, which at a scale 1.75" square, was about the perfect size. I used some on a flatcar model years ago.


Re: Decals

 

I may have some at home. I will check when I get back tomorrow. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jul 9, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Jared Harper harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I am looking for white Santa Fe passenger car style lettering to letter my wooden mineral brown coach, baggage and caboose car.  Microscale doesn't have what I need.  Besides the "Santa Fe" I need "Baggage" and "Railway Express. Agency, Inc."  Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Automobile Shipping

Bruce Smith
 

RJ


From the Misc Album

Empty N&W car

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/photos/albums/1686885752/lightbox/957153180?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/957153180

N&W car with a car loaded

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/photos/albums/1686885752/lightbox/851276406?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/851276406


On the web a search of "Loading automobile boxcar" got plenty of photos.


Yes these cars were used for this traffic very frequently.  The time frame starts shortly after the automobile became popular and lasted into the mid to late 1950s.  Post WWII, the traffic tapered off with other modes of delivery starting to take precedence.


Some automobile cars had end doors that made them useful for loads that wouldn't fit in the racks (and not all automobile cars had end doors).  Among the more popular cargos were fire engines, and even airplanes,.  In fact the Army's movies of the very first US jet airplane show it being delivered in an end door automobile car.


See Tony's excellent blog for a good discussion and a photo of an Aeronica airplane being loaded.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/12/delivering-loads-from-automobile-cars.html


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



From: STMFC@... on behalf of radiodial@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2017 3:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping
 


Thanks Bruce,
I've seen the replies in the past that the info is in conversation history and in the photos section, and I think "what a newbie". Until now when it is my turn!  Ya know, I searched all 3 "Misc" and "Miscellaneous" folders, plus searched prior message history back to 2001. Nada. Did find a scan of an auto-rack loading damage form though in the photo section. Lots of pictures of model Auto cars.
A Google search found 2 pictures of actual boxcar loading in the 30's-40's, but no unloading.
So maybe the question is, were Automobile boxcars actually used to deliver cars from the factory to the dealers for any length of time?  I figured there would be more images out there if they were.
Attempting to keep the rolling stock fleet balanced and find a use of all these automobile boxcars I tend to build/acquire.
Thx,
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA


---In STMFC@..., wrote :

​RJ,


There are several photos in the Miscellaneous album on the group page.  There include an N&W automobile car with the Evans loaders down and in position to receive a car as well as a photo with the car loaded in the upper position.


A search of the Conversations of this group will also yield much more information.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of radiodial@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 9:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping
 


I've never actually seen pictures of loading/unloading of driveable cars in Automobile boxcars. Mainly interested in the 1930s-1940's.  Are there any?  From period newspaper accounts I gather that is how the cars were delivered to the far flung dealers in towns across America then.

Follow-up question is would the boxcars have been only from railroad(s) that served that manufacturing plant? For example, Yarmouth's nice looking CPR Automobile boxcar, would you expect to see it delivering cars only from factories that the CPR served? Or could it end up loaded with cars from Detroit for example?

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA






Contact info for David Sieber-Reno NV

Andy Carlson
 

I have misplaced Davids phone number for his Reno residence. Can anyone help me by supplying this request?
Thanks,
-Andy


Re: Decals

Steve SANDIFER
 

The Santa Fe Society has these in stock, $4 per set. Contact Jonathan Moore, jbnanmoore@.... I just did one myself.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2017 4:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Decals

 

 

I am looking for white Santa Fe passenger car style lettering to letter my wooden mineral brown coach, baggage and caboose car.  Microscale doesn't have what I need.  Besides the "Santa Fe" I need "Baggage" and "Railway Express. Agency, Inc."  Any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Jared Harper

Athens, GA


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Rod Miller
 

When building several SP flat cars, I noticed the brake
staff was square. I presume that was to allow vertical movement
of the staff, e.g., lowered to below the deck surface, but
retain effectiveness of the wheel. See Thompson's SP Freight
Cars Vol 3. p 252, top photo.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com


Re: Decals

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Jared,

Check out the SFRH&MS "company store". I believe that they have what you are looking for. I purchased some sets while attending the Santa Fe convention in Tulsa in late June.

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 9, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Jared Harper harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I am looking for white Santa Fe passenger car style lettering to letter my wooden mineral brown coach, baggage and caboose car.  Microscale doesn't have what I need.  Besides the "Santa Fe" I need "Baggage" and "Railway Express. Agency, Inc."  Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Automobile Shipping

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, RJ, I am in the process of building a model of a box car that was built in January 1942 as an automobile car. It’s definitely a 10’-6” IH car, but it’s even labeled on the side as a 10’-4” IH car because it was originally equipped with racks, reducing the clear IH by 2”. So the railroads anticipated shipping automobiles in box cars at least into the early 40s.



They didn’t ship many, of course, because most auto manufacturers were converting their factories to make war materiel.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 4:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping





Thanks Bruce,

I've seen the replies in the past that the info is in conversation history and in the photos section, and I think "what a newbie". Until now when it is my turn! Ya know, I searched all 3 "Misc" and "Miscellaneous" folders, plus searched prior message history back to 2001. Nada. Did find a scan of an auto-rack loading damage form though in the photo section. Lots of pictures of model Auto cars.

A Google search found 2 pictures of actual boxcar loading in the 30's-40's, but no unloading.

So maybe the question is, were Automobile boxcars actually used to deliver cars from the factory to the dealers for any length of time? I figured there would be more images out there if they were.

Attempting to keep the rolling stock fleet balanced and find a use of all these automobile boxcars I tend to build/acquire.

Thx,

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA



---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

​RJ,



There are several photos in the Miscellaneous album on the group page. There include an N&W automobile car with the Evans loaders down and in position to receive a car as well as a photo with the car loaded in the upper position.



A search of the Conversations of this group will also yield much more information.



Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

_____

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of radiodial@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 9:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping





I've never actually seen pictures of loading/unloading of driveable cars in Automobile boxcars. Mainly interested in the 1930s-1940's. Are there any? From period newspaper accounts I gather that is how the cars were delivered to the far flung dealers in towns across America then.

Follow-up question is would the boxcars have been only from railroad(s) that served that manufacturing plant? For example, Yarmouth's nice looking CPR Automobile boxcar, would you expect to see it delivering cars only from factories that the CPR served? Or could it end up loaded with cars from Detroit for example?

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Edward, I dug a little deeper and made an offer for this item w/free shipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111326669989?ul_noapp=true

I will probably buy a dedicated set of cutters. First boxcar to get the square wire will be an Erie 1932 steel boxcar.

Bill Welch


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

A square brake shaft on the "B" end of a boxcar would be vey cool I think.

Bill Welch
=======================

Careful with assumptions, Bill. I've looked at a lot of drawings, and more than a few surviving cars, and don't recall ever seeing square stock specified for a vertical brake staff. The tapered square end that fit the brake wheel was easy enough to forge on round stock.

Where square stock was universally used was drop brakes on flatcars, since the whole staff had to slip through the ratchet wheel, and should be functional at any point between fully raised to fully retracted.

Special Shapes Co. used to have .020" square brass, which at a scale 1.75" square, was about the perfect size. I used some on a flatcar model years ago.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Automobile Shipping

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

RJ,

Here are links to some N&W auto cars:

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=NS2856

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=NS2904

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=NS2905

These photos show the Evans auto racks ready for loading on the car floor and stowed to the roof for non-auto loading.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



Decals

Jared Harper
 

I am looking for white Santa Fe passenger car style lettering to letter my wooden mineral brown coach, baggage and caboose car.  Microscale doesn't have what I need.  Besides the "Santa Fe" I need "Baggage" and "Railway Express. Agency, Inc."  Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Tank car retainer valve location

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

On an ACF drawing I purchased, it was on a bracket attached to the diagonal brace between the corner and the center sill/body bolster junction.  Mounted vertically, it protruded just above the end platform.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville N


On Jul 9, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Jared Harper harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Where was the retainer valve located on tank cars? I have been looking through Ted Culotta's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual:  Tank Cars looking for pictures showing the valve location.  I think I see a valve peeking up at the end of the car on p.52.   I think I might see another one on a SCOX car on p. 65.  I might seen another on GATX 24126 on p. 104.  Was there a standard location and how was it plumbed?

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Automobile Shipping

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

For looking at C&O and N&W photos it is not that unusual to find pictures of portions of the auto unloading docks with ramps next to the team track.  Unfortunately, photographers focused on the adjacent depots.  These ramped-docks are rarely captioned in the photo credits.  The station history cards for changes many times list removal of the team track and docks.  Ramps would be erected for end-door unloadings.


After WW2, folks were allowed to arrange through their dealer to pick up their cars at the assembly plants and save the shipping charges.  My uncle, working in a dealership shop, living in Washington would take the train to Flint, Michigan, and then drive the family back through his old home in South Dakota in their new car.


Trucking new cars longer distances became more common in the mid-50's.


Al Kresse

On July 9, 2017 at 4:26 PM "radiodial@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Bruce,

I've seen the replies in the past that the info is in conversation history and in the photos section, and I think "what a newbie". Until now when it is my turn!  Ya know, I searched all 3 "Misc" and "Miscellaneous" folders, plus searched prior message history back to 2001. Nada. Did find a scan of an auto-rack loading damage form though in the photo section. Lots of pictures of model Auto cars.
A Google search found 2 pictures of actual boxcar loading in the 30's-40's, but no unloading.
So maybe the question is, were Automobile boxcars actually used to deliver cars from the factory to the dealers for any length of time?  I figured there would be more images out there if they were.
Attempting to keep the rolling stock fleet balanced and find a use of all these automobile boxcars I tend to build/acquire.
Thx,
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA


---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

RJ,


There are several photos in the Miscellaneous album on the group page.  There include an N&W automobile car with the Evans loaders down and in position to receive a car as well as a photo with the car loaded in the upper position.


A search of the Conversations of this group will also yield much more information.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of radiodial@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 9:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Automobile Shipping
 


I've never actually seen pictures of loading/unloading of driveable cars in Automobile boxcars. Mainly interested in the 1930s-1940's.  Are there any?  From period newspaper accounts I gather that is how the cars were delivered to the far flung dealers in towns across America then.

Follow-up question is would the boxcars have been only from railroad(s) that served that manufacturing plant? For example, Yarmouth's nice looking CPR Automobile boxcar, would you expect to see it delivering cars only from factories that the CPR served? Or could it end up loaded with cars from Detroit for example?

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA



 

 


 


Tank car retainer valve location

Jared Harper
 

Where was the retainer valve located on tank cars? I have been looking through Ted Culotta's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual:  Tank Cars looking for pictures showing the valve location.  I think I see a valve peeking up at the end of the car on p.52.   I think I might see another one on a SCOX car on p. 65.  I might seen another on GATX 24126 on p. 104.  Was there a standard location and how was it plumbed?

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Tim O'Connor
 


A Google search for square wire finds sizes down to 30 gauge which is
0.010 instead of 0.016 - quite a difference in HO scale!

Tim O'



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