Date   

Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a PDF of the 1940 Car Builder Cyc - this is the image on page 212.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/timboconnor/36237701146/

Tim O'



I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.



 Ed,

 A Bethlehem Steel Co. builder photo of CNJ 89108, built 1-30, series 89000-89199,
 was published in the 1931 and 1937 Car Builders� Cyclopedia on pages 221 and 245,
 respectively.

 Both books also include a related figure with plans that are the same as those in
 Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 5.

 Regards,
 Ed Hawkins


Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jul 30, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.


Ed,
A Bethlehem Steel Co. builder photo of CNJ 89108, built 1-30, series 89000-89199, was published in the 1931 and 1937 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia on pages 221 and 245, respectively.

Both books also include a related figure with plans that are the same as those in Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 5.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: There appears to be a trio of poultry cars in this image

Charlie Vlk
 

Claus
The cars are ordinary stock cars.   Poultry cars didn't fave full slatted sides, mostly chicken mesh!
Charlie Vlk


On Jul 29, 2017, at 2:35 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,

There appears to be a trio of poultry cars in this image, hiding in the distance by the trees. Too bad the resolution is not better
than it is.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294721735/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

Charlie Vlk
 

Claus
The ramp is for a railroad coal dock. The siding serves a stock pen and a fuel depot.
Charlie Vlk


On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:27 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund


Re: Unloading 1928 Buicks

ROGER HINMAN
 

I see at least three different auto cars in the film

    NYC 261702 is a 1916 SUF car blt by PSC, but never seems to be touched.

    There are two PM cars that appear to be the ones being unloaded, the camera switches randomly from the steel door car to the wood one. I oouldn't read the car numbers clearly, but from looking through the old Hundman PM freight car book, my guess is the steel door car is from 86000 series of cars built by PSC in 1923.

I watched the film three times

Roger Hinman


-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Wilber guycwilber@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Jul 30, 2017 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unloading 1928 Buicks

 
Tony Thompson wrote: 
 

"Great illustration of the wooden "hurdles" used to ship more than two autos in a car."

I have never seen the use of the term "hurdle" within automobile loading diagrams published by the MCBA or the ARA.  The first set of rules governing the loading of automobiles and light trucks within closed cars was published by the American Railroad Association in 1919.  All drawings and accompanying text within that set of rules displaying methods of tilting autos refer to the apparatus as a "horse". 

"The collapsible metal rack must have been a great advance in loading, though maybe less so in unloading."

Maneuvering vehicles in and out of auto cars equipped with Evans or NYC racks was no less intensive than from the years prior to the installations.  The systems did alleviate any need for lifting or lowering (via outside jacks, hoists, etc.).  Further, the use of racks was a much safer and less costly operation, estimated in 1947 to be around $1.00 per vehicle.  The Evans tie down assemblies and the NYC's tire chain "hold downs" also eliminated the need for nailing restraints into car floors.  Regular use of cement coated nails in order to secure such devices as well as the "horses" was common and their removal was brutal on the floor boards.   A 1924 ARA report noted that the floors of auto cars were requiring complete (or partial) repairs after a mere six loadings.

There are many facets of auto loading featured within this film that are noteworthy.  Freight Claim Division Rules required that nearly all fluids, including gasoline, be mostly drained from vehicles.  A gallon of gas was the maximum allowed which was enough to deliver cars to the loading docks and drive them away after removal from auto cars.  Radiators were often drained in colder times of year, baffles in battery caps were designed to prevent spillage, yet battery acid drips were often a source of damage claims.  Typically, drip pads were wired under the engine compartments to absorb (both) oil and battery drips, but obviously weren't used in this illustration. 

The driving of cars into and out of cars was strictly prohibited, but obviously there is at least one auto shown within the film showing an exception to the rule. 
  

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada     







                                         

.


Re: Unloading 1928 Buicks

Guy Wilber
 

Tony Thompson wrote: 
 

"Great illustration of the wooden "hurdles" used to ship more than two autos in a car."

I have never seen the use of the term "hurdle" within automobile loading diagrams published by the MCBA or the ARA.  The first set of rules governing the loading of automobiles and light trucks within closed cars was published by the American Railroad Association in 1919.  All drawings and accompanying text within that set of rules displaying methods of tilting autos refer to the apparatus as a "horse". 

"The collapsible metal rack must have been a great advance in loading, though maybe less so in unloading."

Maneuvering vehicles in and out of auto cars equipped with Evans or NYC racks was no less intensive than from the years prior to the installations.  The systems did alleviate any need for lifting or lowering (via outside jacks, hoists, etc.).  Further, the use of racks was a much safer and less costly operation, estimated in 1947 to be around $1.00 per vehicle.  The Evans tie down assemblies and the NYC's tire chain "hold downs" also eliminated the need for nailing restraints into car floors.  Regular use of cement coated nails in order to secure such devices as well as the "horses" was common and their removal was brutal on the floor boards.   A 1924 ARA report noted that the floors of auto cars were requiring complete (or partial) repairs after a mere six loadings.

There are many facets of auto loading featured within this film that are noteworthy.  Freight Claim Division Rules required that nearly all fluids, including gasoline, be mostly drained from vehicles.  A gallon of gas was the maximum allowed which was enough to deliver cars to the loading docks and drive them away after removal from auto cars.  Radiators were often drained in colder times of year, baffles in battery caps were designed to prevent spillage, yet battery acid drips were often a source of damage claims.  Typically, drip pads were wired under the engine compartments to absorb (both) oil and battery drips, but obviously weren't used in this illustration. 

The driving of cars into and out of cars was strictly prohibited, but obviously there is at least one auto shown within the film showing an exception to the rule. 
  

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada     







                                         

.


Re: Detail on CNW/CMO gondolas

Ted Culotta
 

Tim,

I don't think it's the defect card holder. In the Gerstley photo, the defect card holder is on the side sill, below the capacity data and in other of these gon photos, the defect card holder and this "thing" are both visible. Still stumped...

If Jeff Koeller didn't mention in his article, it's likely he didn't know either. I have to believe he noticed them, though, given his history of research.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta


Re: Prototypes for Precision Scale 65-foot mill gon?

spsalso
 

I found the plans for this car (but no prototype photo) in "Train Shed Cyclopedia No.5"  (1940).  It was definitely CNJ.  Just preceding the plan are two photos of similar (but NOT at all identical) cars: NKP 65018 and B&O 450200.

I expect someone sent the drawings to Korea--"No problem.  What should we paint it?"  And then the NKP and B&O photos were sent.  Or, more likely, the whole book.


I checked out the CNJ car series (89000-89199) in assorted ORER's.

It was in January 1939 as that full series.
In July 1945, that was still true.  There was a listing for CRP, but not for this series.  Still all CNJ.
In October 1947, there were 119 CNJ and 81 CRP.
In October 1950, there were 14 CNJ and 186 CRP.
In July 1956 and April 1961, there were 199 listed with CNJ/CRP (not separated)
In January 1965, 22 CNJ
In October 1966, 3 CNJ
In April 1968, none

Probably much more than you wanted to know, but that 1947--1950 flip in number count is somethin'.

Thanks, all, for your help,


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Announcing: A new RPM meet

twsicrr
 



From: Tom Sinks <twsgso@...>
Date: July 30, 2017 at 3:30:47 PM EDT
To: "Tom Sinks=)" <twsgso@...>

This is to announce a new Railway Prototype Modeler's meet, The Carolinas School of Railway Prototype Modeling (or RPM Carolinas).

 

Focusing on teaching popular modeling skills, RPM Carolinas will be held in Winston-Salem, North Carolina on Friday, October 20 and Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 1450 Fairchild Road, Winston Salem, North Carolina.



 

Please look at our website -- https://sissonstony.wixsite.com/rpm-carolina for a current list of clinicians and nearby hotels.

 



Some items of note about RPM Carolinas:


 

1. Create Your Own Southern Railway 36’ Ventilated Box Car.  We will offer a "Bash 'n Build" clinic (with sincere appreciation to Greg Martin) taught by Fenton Wells that will enable participants to create a Southern Railway 120000-132499 series thirty-six foot ventilated boxcar – a few of which ran until 1953.  The first 25 paid registrations received at our mailing address shown below will entitle the registrant to a complimentary Bash ‘n Build kitcontaining
• An Accurail #1800 36' Boxcar kit
• Resin conversion castings by Dr. Dave Campbell; and 
• Custom decals by Dr. David Bott.  

 

A limited number of castings and decals will be available in the future for sale to those who do not receive one of the 25 complimentary “Bash ‘n Build kits”.  Details later.

 

2. Hands On Weathering.  We will have several continuous "hands-on" weathering clinics over the two days featuring expert modelers, each of who have different weathering styles and application techniques so attendees can watch, practice “hands on” weathering and decide what weathering style he or she prefers.  Our weathering clinicians are:
• Dave Schroedle:  Oils + Powder + Gouache mix – 33% each.
• 

Brian Banna: Truck sideframes only, Pan Pastels varying color depth & cast.
• Tony Sissons:  90% PanPastels + 5% oils + 5% acrylic.  Also hand painted graffiti.
• Butch Eyler: Gouache 90% + oils/powder 10%.  Also hand painted graffiti.

 

Weathering materials will be supplied.  Please bring your own brushes and a freight car 

(We'll have a limited number of "practice" cars for those who need one).


 

3. Historical Exhibitors/ Research Sources.  For attendees interested in railroad history, the Southern Railway Historical Association and the Norfolk and Western Historical Society will be exhibitors.  Moreover, there will be tables containing binders and binders of historic railroad photographs offered by Bob's Photos.

 

4. Clinicians: 

 

                         Tony Sissons              Modifying "outta da box" NS coal gons to achieve prototype accuracyRick Bell                           Historical Societies

            Chris Zygmunt                 Model Photography

            Ken Rickmann                  Using Shapeways

            Kevin von der Lippe         The Atlantic and Yadkin Winston-Salem Division

            Bob Harpe                        Modeling with Cannon Parts

            Rick Bell                           DCC Installation

            Fenton Wells                    Bash 'n Build a Southern 36 foot Ventilated Box Car

            Ken Rickmann                  Modeling Realistic Rail

            Kevin von der Lippe         Modeling Tobacco Barn

           Tom Sinks                        Beyond the Ps-4:  Southern Steam 1903 - 1953

 

Please mark your calendars for October 20-21 and, for updates and more details, go to

 

https://sissonstony.wixsite.com/rpm-carolina

 

Tom Sinks

Tony Sissons

James Wall

Fenton Wells

Kevin von der Lippe

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REGISTRATION FORM

RPM Carolinas

Winston-Salem, NC

October 20 and 21, 2017

 

 

Name:    _________________________________________

 

Address:_________________________________________

 

    __________________________________________

 

E-Mail:   ______________________________________

 

Optional:If you wish to receive complimentary Southern Ventilated Box Car Conversion Kit for our “Bash ‘n Build” Seminar presented by Fenton Wells, please indicate below.

 

________ I wish to receive a complimentary “Bash ‘n Build” Ventilated Box Car Conversion kit.

[The first 25 paid registrations received will get the conversion kit.]  The first 25 paid registrations received will “get the kit”.

 

Please mail your registration form and check for $25 to:

 

Kevin von der Lippe

P.O Box 38604

Greensboro, NC 27438

---------------------------------------------------------
Tom Sinks
126 Connally St.
Black Mountain, NC 28711
336-202-3545


Re: Detail on CNW/CMO gondolas

Tim O'Connor
 

Good question.

Photos of other CNW cars show defect car holders in the same place, so I think
that's the best guess. The Gerstley collection shot of CNW 70351 shows a strange
casting (?) on the right side, B end of the car. It kinda look like one of those
stick-on hooks to mount on the walls in your house... Weird. I have other photos
that show more conventional looking card holders on other CNW gondola classes,
in that same location. One photo even shows a card in the holder.

Tim O'Connor





If one looks at photos of the CNW/CMO AAR recommended practice and related "11-panel" gondolas of 1945-1956, there is a distinctive detail at the lower right corner of the far left panel (adjacent to the left end). It appears to be a casting of some sort. In looking at my photos, I cannot identify it or its purpose. Since it is on both sides of the car, it is unlikely a defect card holder, as these were usually only on one side of the car. Does anyone know what this detail is?

It can be seen in the articles on these cars by Jeff Koeller in Mainline Modeler, May and June, 2005.

The Sunshine kits do not duplicate this feature.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: I count five (5) pickle cars in this image

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :

looks like BPX to me, and the lettering looks like BROWN PICKLE


https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294908846/sizes/o/

========================
Tim, 
They list their products on the tanks. At least one of the words ends with a double E, and Dingee would be a good match. One of the Squire Dingee product lines was "Ma Brown Pickles".

The photo appears to be taken at their Chicago packing plant on Elston Ave. on Chicago's near north side. The track in the foreground is C&NW's Clybourn Jct. where the like to Milwaukee split from the line to central Wisconsin.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Any special purpose for trucks?

Bruce Smith
 

​Mark? (please sign your name so we know who we are talking to)


Absolutely - Without them, the cars had a distressing tendency to wander off in any old direction instead of following the tracks ;)


Seriously... I'm not sure what you're asking.  These are two of many different types of freight car trucks. Each truck manufacturer claimed that their truck had better ride or maintenance features that the other company's truck.  Both model commercial available steam era 50 ton freight car trucks.  On this list, the availability off these trucks allows us to properly equip freight cars with the prototypical truck.  The National B1 is distinctive because of the round holes in the side frame.  The plank less truck lacks a spring plank, which is a "U" shaped channel that went under the spring package and spanned the truck side to side. Plankless trucks were an innovation in the late 1930s which no longer had the spring plank.  If you know trucks, then when you look at any car, you can see what they have.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of markstation01@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Any special purpose for trucks?
 


I've acquired several pairs of Proto 2k B-1 National and 50-ton Plankless, did either of these serve a special purpose?




Any special purpose for trucks?

markstation01@...
 

I've acquired several pairs of Proto 2k B-1 National and 50-ton Plankless, did either of these serve a special purpose?


Re: Westerfield 2400/7400 Hopper Construction

 

Drew – I’ve built dozens of them, mostly flat kits.  In fact, the unibody kits used masters from the flat kits.  So just look at the unibody to determine how the flat castings were assembled.  You shouldn’t have any trouble.  If you need assembly photos, contact me directly. – Al Westerfield  westerfieldalfred@...
 

From: Drew phillydrewcifer@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 1:33 AM
To: Resinfreightcars ; STMFC YahooGroup
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield 2400/7400 Hopper Construction
 
 

Greetings,
   I asked Andrew Dahm at Westerfield for his experiences and he suggested I ask the groups.
 
Background: I have numerous Westerfield 2400 and 7400 series hoppers as I model an anthracite road. Some of the kits I have are older, flat kits while a few, maybe a dozen, are the newer unibody style.
 
Question: Regardless of the need for adding channels to the sides and ends for safety appliances, has anyone assembled the sides and ends of a flat kit to match the unibody and then followed the instructions of the unibody kit to complete the car? Is it practical?
 
Regards,
Drew Marhsall
Philadelphia, PA


Detail on CNW/CMO gondolas

Ted Culotta
 

If one looks at photos of the CNW/CMO AAR recommended practice and related "11-panel" gondolas of 1945-1956, there is a distinctive detail at the lower right corner of the far left panel (adjacent to the left end). It appears to be a casting of some sort. In looking at my photos, I cannot identify it or its purpose. Since it is on both sides of the car, it is unlikely a defect card holder, as these were usually only on one side of the car. Does anyone know what this detail is?  

It can be seen in the articles on these cars by Jeff Koeller in Mainline Modeler, May and June, 2005.

The Sunshine kits do not duplicate this feature.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted


Westerfield 2400/7400 Hopper Construction

Drew M.
 

Greetings,
   I asked Andrew Dahm at Westerfield for his experiences and he suggested I ask the groups.

Background: I have numerous Westerfield 2400 and 7400 series hoppers as I model an anthracite road. Some of the kits I have are older, flat kits while a few, maybe a dozen, are the newer unibody style.

Question: Regardless of the need for adding channels to the sides and ends for safety appliances, has anyone assembled the sides and ends of a flat kit to match the unibody and then followed the instructions of the unibody kit to complete the car? Is it practical?

Regards,
Drew Marhsall
Philadelphia, PA


Re: Unloading 1928 Buicks

Tony Thompson
 

The film is set on the NYC:

 https://www.historicvehicle.org/history-in-motion/    No wonder those doors took a beating, look at the gear used to open them. 

 Gary Laakso


     Great illustration of the wooden "hurdles" used to ship more than two autos in a car. The collapsible metal rack must have been a great advance in loading, though maybe less so in unloading.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Unloading 1928 Buicks

Todd Horton
 

I would assume this would have been from chalk markings?
 
Todd Horton



From: "repairman87@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 11:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unloading 1928 Buicks

 
I have to admit I laughed out loud at the graffiti on the side of the car. Cannot beleive they didnt try and clean it off before filming.

Scott McDonald



Re: Six more was RE: One Canadian Freight Car in the US

Brian Carlson
 

I’d love to see these photos, do you know of any?

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 9:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: Six more was RE: [STMFC] One Canadian Freight Car in the US

 

 

I remember distinctly TH&B cars sitting at the International Nickle Company's plant in Huntington, WV in the 1950s.  This seems logical as INCO was a Canadian firm.  These cars probably were transferred to the C&O in Canada and brought south on C&O as the plant was located on the main line.

 

Larry Smith

 


Re: Six more was RE: One Canadian Freight Car in the US

Brian Carlson
 

Until more information is produced the answer is MAYBE. The TH&B operated over the NYC from Niagara falls (Suspension Bridge) to Buffalo. I believe they terminated in Frontier Yard after it was built. I am not sure if they used the old NYC Gardenville yard before that or one of the other NYC yards in the area. The NYC could have hauled the cars to West Virginia themselves or they could have been handed off to the C&O in Buffalo (Pere Marquette) or potentially someplace else.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: Six more was RE: [STMFC] One Canadian Freight Car in the US

 

 

Thanks, Ben, good to know I am more than half right!

But Larry surmised that the cars in question would have been “transferred to the C&O in Canada and brought south on C&O.“ Assuming (danger!) that the TH&B cars were loaded on TH&B, wouldn’t a routing through Niagara Falls to NYC to some junction with the C&O west of Buffalo be more likely?