Date   

Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Dennis Storzek
 


Tony, can one solder Nichrome with ordinary tin/lead solder?

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Bill Welch
 

I sent an email to Kidney Puncher about the .4mm x .4mm material but will probably purchase the 100-foot spool. I am NOT going to try to sell off lengths through this list but will bring said spool and cutters to Lisle and CCB and give people whatever length—within reason—they want.

Bill Welch


Excellent book for; What industry is this?

np328
 

I used to look at an early published book in the Weyerhaeuser library at the Minnesota Historical Society.  

Such a book comes in handy when questions like :What industry is this arise. 


The book pre-dates this lists timeframe and I am hoping the Sheriff will allow me this transgression.  The book is about structures (strike two) however a handy reference for how things had come to be on the parts of the railroads that were the stage upon the railroad cars we so faithfully study ran.  


I have since found the book on line not once but several places: 

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100665777                                   Center lower middle - click on Full View 


and here also:  

https://archive.org/details/buildingsstructu00berg            


Do not dismiss the early date. Lots of good info, on many railroads. Read the first few paragraphs of any chapter and you will see. Coaling Stations is Chapter XV.
                                                                                                         Jim Dick - Roseville, MN




Re: Early Bulkhead Kit for SP Flat Car

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks Tony, fortunately I have one such car (which unfortunately is bent UPwards a little to the middle of the car- I still have to figure out what I can do to solve this...).
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 02. August 2017 um 00:46 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
An: STMFC@...
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] Re: Early Bulkhead Kit for SP Flat Car
 

 

Are these kits the same as were on the class F-70-6 cars sold exclusively through the SPH&TS some years ago?
  Yes, same kits that the SPH&TS is currently sold out of.
 
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 

 
 

 


Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

np328
 

Jerry Breon wrote:  I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed? 

Those were called Transfer Stations, however if you look for Transfer Stations, you will find that covers quite a lot, such as dry goods transfer in addition to mineral transfer. 
                                                                                                         Jim Dick - St. Paul


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

I don't know Tony - the web site said the wire was Sandvik, and it's the
SANDVIK web site that talks about their welding wire. The wire is fed from
the spools for some kind of welding applications. Check it out yourself.


   Yes, I can tell you "don't know." Sandvik is a well-known company with a wide variety of products, including machine tools, mining equipment, and production systems. Originally they were just a steel company in Sandviken Sweden (thus the name). Today they offer a lot of specialty alloys, including unusual stainless steels and Nichrome, along with materials like carbides. And yes, they make wire of many kinds. That it comes on spools by no means makes it a welding wire, though they do make a number of compositions of welding wire too. But Nichrome is not one of them.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Rich C
 

On a side note, Tony is correct, it is used for heating coils. I worked for Sandvik in Sonora California for 4 years. We specialized in heating coils for baking wafers used in the semiconductor industry. Our facility did not manufacture for household appliances. Most of the raw materials we used came directly from Sweden, in particular Swedish steel which 11 years ago went for $38 to $45 per pound! The average raw coil weight was roughly 75 to 100 pounds.

Rich Christie


On Tuesday, August 1, 2017, 8:47:03 PM CDT, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:


 


I don't know Tony - the web site said the wire was Sandvik, and it's the
SANDVIK web site that talks about their welding wire. The wire is fed from
the spools for some kind of welding applications. Check it out yourself.

The tensile strength numbers also came from the Sandvik web site.

Tim O'Connor



Nope, nothing to do with welding. Nichrome (commonly 80 percent Ni, 20 percent Cr) is used in heating elements, including toasters. It has the desirable quality of not very great conductivity, thus heating efficiently, and shows very little oxidation when incandescent.
      It is pretty ductile unless hard-drawn, and can certainly be annealed at home if not as soft as you want.
      This is pretty basic metallurgy. Wikipedia is your friend here.

Tony Thompson


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Tim O'Connor
 


I don't know Tony - the web site said the wire was Sandvik, and it's the
SANDVIK web site that talks about their welding wire. The wire is fed from
the spools for some kind of welding applications. Check it out yourself.

The tensile strength numbers also came from the Sandvik web site.

Tim O'Connor



Nope, nothing to do with welding. Nichrome (commonly 80 percent Ni, 20 percent Cr) is used in heating elements, including toasters. It has the desirable quality of not very great conductivity, thus heating efficiently, and shows very little oxidation when incandescent.
      It is pretty ductile unless hard-drawn, and can certainly be annealed at home if not as soft as you want.
      This is pretty basic metallurgy. Wikipedia is your friend here.

Tony Thompson


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Nelson Moyer
 

Bill, the nichrome (nickel chromium) wire we used for microbiological loops and needles was quite stiff, and it would hold its shape. I don't remember the gauge wire we used, but it ranged from approximately 0.5-1 mm in diameter, depending up the intended use. It came on a spool, and we stocked at least two sizes in the lab and bent our own loops. I think you could straighten it easily by putting on end in a vise, and pulling hard on it (without twisting if it's square wire!).

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 6:31 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs




Bill and others, I am looking at this product: https://www.kidneypuncher.com/n80-square-wire-100ft-spool/
Only $8.50 The question I have is can the Sandvik Nichrome 80 !! material be straightened?
Bill Welch


Bill

I think it is "welding wire" steel. I looked up information such as tensile
strength and ductility. (The latter would, I think, impact your question.) What
I found said that phosphor bronze wire has about 2x the tensile strength of
this material. Tony Thompson, the metallurgist, probably can speak to this
more knowledgably.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor responded to this post:

 
Bill and others, I am looking at this product: https://www.kidneypuncher.com/n80-square-wire-100ft-spool/
Only $8.50 The question I have is can the Sandvik Nichrome 80 !! material be straightened?

by writing this:

I think it is "welding wire" steel. I looked up information such as tensile
strength and ductility. (The latter would, I think, impact your question.) What
I found said that phosphor bronze wire has about 2x the tensile strength of
this material. Tony Thompson, the metallurgist, probably can speak to this
more knowledgably.

     Nope, nothing to do with welding. Nichrome (commonly 80 percent Ni, 20 percent Cr) is used in heating elements, including toasters. It has the desirable quality of not very great conductivity, thus heating efficiently, and shows very little oxidation when incandescent.
      It is pretty ductile unless hard-drawn, and can certainly be annealed at home if not as soft as you want.
      This is pretty basic metallurgy. Wikipedia is your friend here.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Andy Carlson
 

I think Bill Pardie's suggestion is helpful. Over a year ago I purchased very small diameter heat-shrink tubing which works well as simple coupler for joining the distal ends of tank car perimeter hand rails.  I purchased a somewhat large quantity of 2 sizes which I offered to members of this list. Each responder got enough material for multiple dozens of tank cars, without breaking the bank.

Good suggestion, Bill. I have no need for the staff material, any volunteers?

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "pardiew001 PARDIEW001@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

 
I did not see any pricing as well  I can' see them shipping one 12" piece which is what most of us want.  Maby we shoud form a "hui" (group).  Anyone want to take this on?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
Date: 8/1/17 2:09 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

 

  I did a quick Google search and found this web site with 0.015" square wire:
  https://www.gibbswire.com/square-wire/
  I didn't look into pricing.
  Spen Kellogg


Wow, and it comes in phosphor-bronze too!

I am reminded of a very successful New England tech company called CABLETRON
(eventually absorbed by another tech giant). Their first "product" was simple
short lengths of telephone cable! They would buy giant spools, and sell shorter
lengths. Turns out no one had ever thought of this before, and they made a
small fortune. Then they started making gadgets...

Maybe some entrepeneur here can buy a 1000 ft spool of square wire... :-)

Tim O'Connor




Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Tim O'Connor
 


Bill and others, I am looking at this product: https://www.kidneypuncher.com/n80-square-wire-100ft-spool/
Only $8.50 The question I have is can the Sandvik Nichrome 80 !! material be straightened?
Bill Welch


Bill

I think it is "welding wire" steel. I looked up information such as tensile
strength and ductility. (The latter would, I think, impact your question.) What
I found said that phosphor bronze wire has about 2x the tensile strength of
this material. Tony Thompson, the metallurgist, probably can speak to this
more knowledgably.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Help ID'ing cars in MPA notebooks

James McDonald
 

Thank you for the replies Steve, Bill, and Garth. They’re very helpful.

I should have caught the ATSF gondola. It was in my 1950 ORER, but I missed it because I was tricked by the way the entry for ATSF is parsed. It skips the number range where you’d first expect these cars to appear, only to show them on a later page. Of course I have encountered that before, but didn’t remember it in this case. Thanks to you all for getting me squared away.

All the best,

James

=-=-=
James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD


Re: Early Bulkhead Kit for SP Flat Car

Tony Thompson
 

Are these kits the same as were on the class F-70-6 cars sold exclusively through the SPH&TS some years ago?

  Yes, same kits that the SPH&TS is currently sold out of.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

Bill Welch
 

Bill and others, I am looking at this product: https://www.kidneypuncher.com/n80-square-wire-100ft-spool/

Only $8.50

The question I have is can the Sandvik Nichrome 80 !! material be straightened?

Bill Welch
 


Re: Increase to 30 Cars. --WAS Re: Re: HO 20 car freight car train

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Rich, Todd and Friends,

What railroad? Which branch/section, or between which cities? What season?
What overhead traffic moved on this track? Any branches or captive shortlines? What industries were served by this line? Which industries are you modeling? These are the sort of factors that will determine your consist, not what is a typical train for a broad three-state region. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I think this is a more profitable and interesting exercise.

With courtesy,


Garth Groff


On 8/1/17 5:19 PM, Richard Ramik richramik@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I have found this thread very informative and helpful from a modeling perspective.  I have deficiencies that I obviously need to address.

To your point, the plan (mine) is to run 30 car trains in the Fall of 1955.  This would be in NJ, PA, NY.  What would or could a train look like????



Rich Ramik
richramik@...


-----Original Message-----
From: sullivant41@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: HO 20 car freight car train

 
I really like the suggestions for substitutions made so far.  The list was limited to 20 cars, and I did consider some of the suggested cars, but had to make the cut somewhere.  Now, if we increased it to 25 or 30 ... lots more could be added!   ;-)

Todd Sullivan


Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I did not see any pricing as well  I can' see them shipping one 12" piece which is what most of us want.  Maby we shoud form a "hui" (group).  Anyone want to take this on?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 8/1/17 2:09 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Square Wire for Vertical Brake Staffs

 


  I did a quick Google search and found this web site with 0.015" square wire:
  https://www.gibbswire.com/square-wire/
  I didn't look into pricing.
  Spen Kellogg


Wow, and it comes in phosphor-bronze too!

I am reminded of a very successful New England tech company called CABLETRON
(eventually absorbed by another tech giant). Their first "product" was simple
short lengths of telephone cable! They would buy giant spools, and sell shorter
lengths. Turns out no one had ever thought of this before, and they made a
small fortune. Then they started making gadgets...

Maybe some entrepeneur here can buy a 1000 ft spool of square wire... :-)

Tim O'Connor


Increase to 30 Cars. --WAS Re: Re: HO 20 car freight car train

Richard Ramik <richramik@...>
 

I have found this thread very informative and helpful from a modeling perspective.  I have deficiencies that I obviously need to address.

To your point, the plan (mine) is to run 30 car trains in the Fall of 1955.  This would be in NJ, PA, NY.  What would or could a train look like????


Rich Ramik
richramik@...


-----Original Message-----
From: sullivant41@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: HO 20 car freight car train

 
I really like the suggestions for substitutions made so far.  The list was limited to 20 cars, and I did consider some of the suggested cars, but had to make the cut somewhere.  Now, if we increased it to 25 or 30 ... lots more could be added!   ;-)

Todd Sullivan


Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Some of these coaling stations did not have even platforms.  A coal-carrying-gondola was spotted and blocked on the top of a raised track.  Manual labor moved the coal from the car directly to the tender of the locomotive strategically spotted on an adjacent track.  No cover, no lighting, no platform, no chutes, no machinery, and no extra help for the one worker who did this between the switching shifts of those terminals.  He was likely also the keeper of the locomotive's fire and the night watchman.  Times have changed.

From Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh 


From: "'Doug Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

 
Remember many of the trestle style coaling stations were built in the early days of railroading. Engines were small, labor was cheap. The first were indeed simple raised platforms on which coal was shoveled from a gon, then when an engine needed coaling the crew shoveled coal form the platform to the tender. As engines got larger the trestles got taller, and bins replaced the platforms. Many were covered. One or more gons or hoppers were shoved up the trestle and coal was shoveled or dumped into the bins. The bins had chutes on the side so an engine could be coaled by spotting the tender under the chute. The coaling station with a trestle was used by many railroads up into the 20s. But I believe they are all gone, replaced with coaling towers. As engine size increased, the appetite for coal grew, but also the distance an engine could go on one load of coal. Railroads began replacing their trestle coaling stations with coaling towers for faster more efficient coaling of locomotives. The first were built out of wood, but then concrete and steel. Some of these concrete behemoths still stand, no longer used and stripped of their metal parts.
 
Doug  Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:32 PM
To: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 
 
The LV had a coal transfer facility in Rochester NY  that was about twice as high. It could store and dump into hopper‎s on the sides. 
 
This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal. 
 
Mark Landgraf
Albany NY
 
From: 'Charles Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:49 PM
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 
 
A ramp set up like this was used to transfer bulk commodities from narrow gauge cars to standard gauge cars.  The SP had a similar facility at its narrow gauge/standard gauge interchange.
 
Charlie
 
From: Jerry Breon jbreon@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp
 



While I agree with the majority of group members that the incline ramp in the photo below is leading to a small, steam locomotive coaling facility, I'm wondering if there were ever any similar facilities of this era that existed for the purpose of transferring bulk commodities (coal, sand, gravel, etc.) from one freight car to another or if the need to do so even existed?
Thanks,
Jerry Breon
Mooresville, NC
 
Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Claus Schlund" clausschlund

Hi List Members,

What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp, being served by steam era freight cars on the C&NW?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12294845895/sizes/o/

Claus Schlund
 





Re: What type of industry is this, at the inclined ramp

Dennis Storzek
 

---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :





This CNW facility is a little strange in that there is not enough elevational change ‎to make the coal flow. The ramp is also very clean, unlike the LV ramp that was heavily covered in coal. Maybe the CNW facility wasn't for coal.


Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

===================


And what would it be for? It's not a transfer facility, as the only track it serves is the main line.

It may just be out of service. These empty the gon with a shovel, then shovel into the tender facilities were painfully labor intensive, and were eventually superseded by either coaling towers, or mechanized plants. As the railroads adopted larger capacity tenders, a lot of these intermediate coaling facilities were no longer needed, but possibly left in place against future need, until the decision was made to tear them down. The Soo Line had several of these through central Wisconsin; as far as I know, none lasted beyond WWII.

Dennis Storzek

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