Date   

Re: IC GS gon photo needed

Jack Mullen
 

Bill,
I'm not very familiar with the IC fleet, but from the info you have, it certainly sounds like two different groups of cars, 1000 GS gons and 750 GB. A possible explanation would be that the GB gons were in the 85000 series prior to 1940, then renumbered some time before the GS gons were delivered.
Perhaps someone can check an ORER from the '30s?

Jack Mullen


Re: IC GS gon photo needed

Bill Welch
 

Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000192 EndHTML:0000006638 StartFragment:0000002603 EndFragment:0000006602 SourceURL:file://localhost/Users/billwelch/Documents/Modeling%20IC%20GS%20gons%20.doc

Thank you Ray.

Still room for confusion that I will explain momentarily.

First here is a link (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ertxfp4kl0urh72/AAA8eHSfWA9ukTuQS58KCq2ca?dl=0) to photos of the model I am building using the Detail Associates kit with Accurail Dreadnaught ends substituted for the kits Improved Dreadnaught ends. Ladder and grab details were carefully carved off and styrene was used to fill in any holes or gaps. The white metal Dreadnaught drop doors were slightly undersized so I used styrene strip to shim the openings before I installed the doors. Small dabs of Devcon’s “Two-Ton Epoxy” secure them in place. The door locks I had were styrene instead of Engineering Plastic so I used styrene rod to secure these parts in place w/liquid Testers. The side and end “Economy” brand ladders are scratch-built with dimension strip styrene, 0.010 styrene rod and harvested rivets. The buffer plates are likewise scratch built with the same materials but wider than the prototype so as to fit the DA coupler pocket. The gussets on the corners of the bulb angles are Tichy with small slivers of the parts used to add some bulk to the parts. Kadee’s Bettendorf “HGC” trucks are an exact match for this model. With lead slivers in the center sill the model weighs 2.5 ounces.

My inspiration and authority for the model were the General American Builder’s Photos published in the Car Builder’s CYC beginning with the 1940 Edition plus the July 1955 Illinois Central entry in the ORER that shows 1000 cars still installed in the 1940 built 85000–85999 series where the cars are still classed as “GS” w/Drop Bottoms. These Builder Photos clearly show a black car.

One nit to pick is that I used an Ajax Brake wheel as I misinterpreted a photo. They were built with the Universal XL. My story is one of those accidents that required replacement of the wheel and gearbox offline.

I have over the years accumulated photos of IC GS gons but they are all cars built latter or cars from the 85000 series after they were renumbered and had the doors welded shut and locks removed. These are B&W photos and it is hard to tell if the cars are painted black or BCR/B so Ray’s information is helpful. I have not painted the model as I am waiting to have the appropriate DA Delrin sill steps burned out and converted to brass parts before I am saying I am finished.

Creating a cloud is an IC Shop Diagram last revised March 11, 1954 that says cars numbered 85000-85749 are “solid bottom” gondolas and have been renumbered to 99000–99743. This “GB” series also appears in the 7-55 ORER referenced above. This is conflicting and really confusing.

Is it known when the IC began to apply the “Mainline . . .” slogan? I assume they would have waited to apply this to cars as they were being repainted. Am I correct?

Bill Welch


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

D. Scott Chatfield
 

http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/rwy/id/1395/rec/91  

By my very rough calculation it is a 6500 gallon tank.  Definitely not a 10000 gallon tank.  Compare its height to the
car to its right.


Scott Chatfield


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Dave Nelson
 

I am always impressed by the depth of knowledge present on this list.  Thanks guys!

 

Dave Nelson


Re: IC GS gon photo needed

Ray Breyer
 

>>Ray or Chet:


>>Did the "Mainline of Mid-America" slogan appear on both the black and BCR cars?
>>Bill Welch

HI Bill,
Yes, at least after 1947. I've got a color photo of newly-built IC 94600 (Centralia, 1952), and it's brown with the MLMA slogan on it.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL





Re: Ajax brake wheel size.

Rhbale@...
 

Most wheels mounted vertically on power hand brake mechanisms are 22-inches in diameter which is within the A.A.R. standard. The A.A.R. standard for brake wheels mounted horizontally on vertical shafts is a minimum of 15-inches with 16-inches preferred.  Incidentally, between 1926 and 1994 Ajax produced 37 different models of hand brake wheels.

 

In a message dated 8/3/2017 6:27:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

22 inches for the style that mounts on a boxcar, hopper, gondola

From: repairman87@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 8:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Ajax brake wheel size.

 

Does anybody know what exactly the outside diameter of the Ajax brake wheel measures? Going to use that measurement to figure out other details on the end.

Thanks

Scott.McDonald



Re: Ajax brake wheel size.

Scott
 

Thank you Mark!


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Tony Thompson
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

 
As has been stated, it is a PA Tank Car prototype, but the dome size may create unnecessary confusion. There are plenty of examples of cars by this company with excessively large domes. I have no insight into the reason, but there are plenty of photos to illustrate the distinctly large size.

      Always remember, for all tank cars, that the BUYER chose the tank dimensions and specs, within the limits of what the manufacturer was prepared to do. (And those were broad limits; these were semi-custom freight cars.) Only the underframes were quasi-standard (as in Type 27, etc.).

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Ajax brake wheel size.

mark_landgraf
 

22 inches for the style that mounts on a boxcar, hopper, gondola

From: repairman87@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 8:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Ajax brake wheel size.

 

Does anybody know what exactly the outside diameter of the Ajax brake wheel measures? Going to use that measurement to figure out other details on the end.

Thanks

Scott.McDonald



Re: Ajax brake wheel size.

Rhbale@...
 

When was the prototype car built? Is the brake wheel in question cast iron or pressed steel?
 

In a message dated 8/3/2017 5:44:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Does anybody know what exactly the outside diameter of the Ajax brake wheel measures? Going to use that measurement to figure out other details on the end.

Thanks

Scott.McDonald


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Ted Culotta
 

As has been stated, it is a PA Tank Car prototype, but the dome size may create unnecessary confusion. There are plenty of examples of cars by this company with excessively large domes. I have no insight into the reason, but there are plenty of photos to illustrate the distinctly large size.

Cheers,
Ted


Ajax brake wheel size.

Scott
 

Does anybody know what exactly the outside diameter of the Ajax brake wheel measures? Going to use that measurement to figure out other details on the end.

Thanks

Scott.McDonald


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Schleigh Mike
 

Thanks Steve----

But Dave is right about that dome.  The 8K Sinclairs from PTCCo. have domes at 265 so I think that this MOW car is simply not one of the RR's former 15000 series.  Perhaps it is an 8K.  That was my first thought until I saw they had 100 cars at 10K.

Regards from western Penna. outside Grove City----Mike Schleigh



From: "'Steve and Barb Hile' shile@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 
I will vote with Mike on the Pennsylvania Tank Car company as builder.  But, I think an 8000 gallon capacity is more likely.  Similar to the Sinclair cars in the same section of Ted's manual.
 
Many railroads purchased used tank cars for MOW purposes.
 
Steve Hile


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 4:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 
Mike:

I am not sure exactly what this car is, but I am skeptical that it has a 150-gal dome.  First, it looks considerably bigger.  Second, as a Class III tank car it should have been required to meet the 2% dome requirement -- 200 gal minimum for a 10,000 gal car.  Third, the 100 cars in the 15000 series of the FW&DC are present in my Dec 1915 ORER, well before the 1917 adoption of the Class III standard.

That said, I can't shed any further light on the identity or history of this car.

Best regards,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM, "Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
This is a Pennsylvania Tank Car Company tank car, perhaps of 10K gallon capacity built approx. 1918 to early 1920s.  See the section beginning on page 88 of the Steam Era Ref Manual Vol. 2.  The 1955 Tariff shows 94 cars (15001-15100 series) of nominal 10K capy. under Fort Worth & Denver all with 150 gallon dome capy.  They all could have been this car.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



From: "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 2:53 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 
Anyone want to express an opinion on who & when this tankcar was built?
 
Dave Nelson







Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I will vote with Mike on the Pennsylvania Tank Car company as builder.  But, I think an 8000 gallon capacity is more likely.  Similar to the Sinclair cars in the same section of Ted's manual.
 
Many railroads purchased used tank cars for MOW purposes.
 
Steve Hile



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 4:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 

Mike:

I am not sure exactly what this car is, but I am skeptical that it has a 150-gal dome.  First, it looks considerably bigger.  Second, as a Class III tank car it should have been required to meet the 2% dome requirement -- 200 gal minimum for a 10,000 gal car.  Third, the 100 cars in the 15000 series of the FW&DC are present in my Dec 1915 ORER, well before the 1917 adoption of the Class III standard.

That said, I can't shed any further light on the identity or history of this car.

Best regards,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM, "Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
This is a Pennsylvania Tank Car Company tank car, perhaps of 10K gallon capacity built approx. 1918 to early 1920s.  See the section beginning on page 88 of the Steam Era Ref Manual Vol. 2.  The 1955 Tariff shows 94 cars (15001-15100 series) of nominal 10K capy. under Fort Worth & Denver all with 150 gallon dome capy.  They all could have been this car.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



From: "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 2:53 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 
Anyone want to express an opinion on who & when this tankcar was built?
 
Dave Nelson





Re: IC GS gon photo needed

Bill Welch
 

Ray or Chet:

Did the "Mainline of Mid-America" slogan appear on both the black and BCR cars?

Clark:

Not to be too technical but the IC cars were built wi/Dreadnaught ends, not the Improved Dreadnaught ends I think are on the Red Caboose model.

Bill Welch


Re: a rarety to see an image of a BA&P boxcar!

Chuck Soule
 

I've been in touch with a couple of people, and the location is Rocker, about 3 miles west of Butte.  It is also post 1913, when the BA&P electrified.  That is consistent with the other observations that Berringer did his work 1933-1941.

Chuck Soule


Re: 5 course tank car in MOW service

Dave Parker
 

Mike:

I am not sure exactly what this car is, but I am skeptical that it has a 150-gal dome.  First, it looks considerably bigger.  Second, as a Class III tank car it should have been required to meet the 2% dome requirement -- 200 gal minimum for a 10,000 gal car.  Third, the 100 cars in the 15000 series of the FW&DC are present in my Dec 1915 ORER, well before the 1917 adoption of the Class III standard.

That said, I can't shed any further light on the identity or history of this car.

Best regards,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM, "Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
This is a Pennsylvania Tank Car Company tank car, perhaps of 10K gallon capacity built approx. 1918 to early 1920s.  See the section beginning on page 88 of the Steam Era Ref Manual Vol. 2.  The 1955 Tariff shows 94 cars (15001-15100 series) of nominal 10K capy. under Fort Worth & Denver all with 150 gallon dome capy.  They all could have been this car.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



From: "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 2:53 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 5 course tank car in MOW service

 
Anyone want to express an opinion on who & when this tankcar was built?
 
Dave Nelson





Re: IC GS gon photo needed

Ray Breyer
 

Sort of correct: the IC hopped between brown and black for their open-topped cars, just like the NYC did, and they did it a lot. 

Originally, their wood gons were black, but switched to brown by 1916, including their USRA cars.

By the time their first batch of "modern" all-steel GS gons were built in 1940 the standard was black.

By 1947 the standard was brown again, and black again by 1960. According to Chet French there was really never a time when  black or brown was seen exclusively.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 3:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] IC GS gon photo needed



Hi,
I recently had a visitor that is a big IC fan. He saw a Red Caboose GS gon I’d built and painted black. He said it was an IC car and they were black early on without the mainline slogan. He just sent me Champ IC box car decals. I need a photo of one of these black cars (as built?) to see what from this set I can use and where to put it.
 
As always I appreciate any and all help,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa





Re: Some enjoyable steam era freight car views in the Barriger collectio

Kenneth Schanz
 

Here is a similar shot to the original, from the University of Iowa Digital Collection


Shot is circa 1951.

Ken Schanz


On Thursday, August 3, 2017 3:08 AM, "Nelson Moyer npmoyer@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Yes, it's a Burlington Route GS-5 or GS-7 with a Perfection power hand brake. It's not possible to determine which class without being able to read the road number.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 10:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Some enjoyable steam era freight car views in the Barriger collectio

I do require reading glasses, but I can't make out any of the lettering on the car clearly.

In any case the car is clearly not a USRA gondola but it looks exactly like one of the Burlington's
composite gondolas.

C&S reporting marks were "C&S." That's three letters. "CS" was Canada Southern.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: IC GS gon photo needed

O Fenton Wells
 

All my stuff is packed for my upcoming move. Email Tom Sinks he is a big IC fan and could possibly help you
Fenton 


On Aug 3, 2017, at 4:47 PM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi,
I recently had a visitor that is a big IC fan. He saw a Red Caboose GS gon I’d built and painted black. He said it was an IC car and they were black early on without the mainline slogan. He just sent me Champ IC box car decals. I need a photo of one of these black cars (as built?) to see what from this set I can use and where to put it.
 
As always I appreciate any and all help,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

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