Date   

Re: a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars

James McDonald
 

Hi Richard,

I wondered if it could be RF&P too. The logo is about the right shape and position, and it’s possible that the lettering to the right side of the door says “RICHMOND” (though it’s hard to tell, honestly).

The car appears to be double sheathed. Contenders would then be the RFP 301-979 series 37’ box built in 1906 by the railroad’s shops with wooden frame, truss rods, metal draft arms, Hutchins inside metal roof, and Wagner doors* (58 in service in 1930), or the RFP 2001-2200 series 38’ boxcar built in 1907 by Western Steel Car & Foundry with steel fish belly under frame, Hutchins inside metal roof, and Wagner doors (166 in service in 1930). Both series had 5’6” door openings. The other double sheathed cars on the RF&P roster were 1911 Standard Steel Car automobile cars with double Wagner doors and a pronounced fascia that the other double sheathed cars did not have. I do not believe that the photo shows one of the automobile cars. If any RF&P car, I’d suspect it’s one of the 2001 series. By 1929/30 many of the RFP 301 series were on their way out and/or being converted into cabooses.

What puzzles me a bit is that the car ends are clearly steel, and all indications I’ve yet seen by reviewing RF&P records and photos show all of the RF&P’s double sheathed cars to have wood-sheathed ends. This would be the first retrofit I’ve encountered, if this is really an RF&P car.

All the best,

James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD

* At least one car from this series made it into MoW service and was photographed with its Wagner doors replaced with top hung sliding doors, though it is unclear when and how many cars were so treated.

________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars
Posted by: "Richard Townsend" richtownsend@netscape.net richtownsend2002
Date: Fri Aug 4, 2017 7:48 pm ((PDT))


Two rows back from the Winston-Salem car, second from the left, is that an RF&P car? Or maybe BAR?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: a rarety to see an image of a BA&P boxcar!

Douglas Harding
 

John W Barriger III began working for the Pennsy in the 20’s. And while many photos date from his time working for the US Government in the 30s & 40s, his collection contains images and documents going back to the very first years of railroads. According to the website http://www.umsl.edu/mercantile/barriger/barriger-history.html

“The photographic holdings include some 50,000 images dating 1917 to 1970 for over 200 North American railroads. Included are views of the railroad fixed plant - track and right-of-way, junctions, yards, shops and service facilities, depots and structures.”

Do not assume a photo dates from the 30s or 40s if it is the Barriger Collection

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 12:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: a rarety to see an image of a BA&P boxcar!

 

 

I am a little puzzled by the timeline. The lettering on BA&P box car looks original "as built" and it still has pressed steel trucks. Is date ~1933, but the box car was no longer in interchange service or was the photo from some other earlier project and ended up at the Barriger?

Yes, one of the comments with the photo, states this is Rocker, MT and states the photo also shows the BA&P tie plant and yard on the left after flipping the photo.

Bob Witt


Re: We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Garth,

I'm not at all sure I agree this is the 1930s - could more than likely be the 1920s if you asked me. In that case, the standards were certainly fewer and further between...

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff sarahsan@embarqmail.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...


Friends,

Can anyone comment on the boxcar with the end ladder in the odd place. I
know things like this took a while to standardize, but the photo must
date to the 1930s and that seems awfully late for such a car.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/5/17 1:11 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@hellgatemodels.com [STMFC] wrote:

Hi List Members,

We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12351157973/sizes/o/

Usual Barriger Collection disclaimers apply.

Claus Schlund


Re: We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Can anyone comment on the boxcar with the end ladder in the odd place. I know things like this took a while to standardize, but the photo must date to the 1930s and that seems awfully late for such a car.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/5/17 1:11 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] wrote:
�

Hi List Members,

We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12351157973/sizes/o/

Usual Barriger Collection disclaimers apply.

Claus Schlund



Re: CNJ Boxcar oddity

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Ray. It is an awfully small car for 1950, I wonder if it hung on in online captive service. 

It would be funny to be ordering an empty box car on the CNJ in 1959 and getting that car.

Brian J. Carlson 

On Aug 5, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi Brian,

These cars are only oddities to diesel-era modelers like yourself.   :-)

Originally built by Haskell & Barker in 1898, they were rebuilt with steel roofs, ends and steel center sills by ACF/Berwick in early 1922. The car's still on the 1951 ORER too, but not 1955. Likely, the K brake ban got it more than age.
 
Photo of one coming offlist!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "'Brian Carlson' prrk41361@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 10:52 AM
Subject: [STMFC] CNJ Boxcar oddity



While working on a portion of my next presentation I came across an oddity in the CNJ section of the July 1950 ORER. There is a listing for 1 car in the 33658-36457 series. The particulars of this series are fascinating for 1950.
Inside length 34’-9” inside height 6’-10”, outside length 35’-6” door 5’-6” x 6’-5” At first, I thought this might have been a boxcar converted to hopper service but it is classified as an XM and there are no footnote explaining it.  Under the “Markings and kind of Car” column it states, “Bradford steel center sill and pressed steel ends.”
 
This is an awfully small boxcar for 1950. Does anyone have more info or a photo of this series? While I won’t cover this car in my talk I am curious about it.
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
 





Re: CNJ Boxcar oddity

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Brian,

These cars are only oddities to diesel-era modelers like yourself.   :-)

Originally built by Haskell & Barker in 1898, they were rebuilt with steel roofs, ends and steel center sills by ACF/Berwick in early 1922. The car's still on the 1951 ORER too, but not 1955. Likely, the K brake ban got it more than age.
 
Photo of one coming offlist!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "'Brian Carlson' prrk41361@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 10:52 AM
Subject: [STMFC] CNJ Boxcar oddity



While working on a portion of my next presentation I came across an oddity in the CNJ section of the July 1950 ORER. There is a listing for 1 car in the 33658-36457 series. The particulars of this series are fascinating for 1950.
Inside length 34’-9” inside height 6’-10”, outside length 35’-6” door 5’-6” x 6’-5” At first, I thought this might have been a boxcar converted to hopper service but it is classified as an XM and there are no footnote explaining it.  Under the “Markings and kind of Car” column it states, “Bradford steel center sill and pressed steel ends.”
 
This is an awfully small boxcar for 1950. Does anyone have more info or a photo of this series? While I won’t cover this car in my talk I am curious about it.
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
 





Re: a rarety to see an image of a BA&P boxcar!

rwitt_2000
 

I am a little puzzled by the timeline. The lettering on BA&P box car looks original "as built" and it still has pressed steel trucks. Is date ~1933, but the box car was no longer in interchange service or was the photo from some other earlier project and ended up at the Barriger?

Yes, one of the comments with the photo, states this is Rocker, MT and states the photo also shows the BA&P tie plant and yard on the left after flipping the photo.

Bob Witt


We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

We get a nice view of DL&W 38146 DS boxcar and a NYC DS boxcar...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12351157973/sizes/o/

Usual Barriger Collection disclaimers apply.

Claus Schlund


RPM Kansas City?

Jim Betz
 

Is there an RPM group/meet in KC? Contact info pls. Thanks.


Re: it's just a STRING of hopper cars . . .

tbarney2004
 

With the tell tales breaking up the outline of the letters, it's hard to make out.  To me, looks like the words to the right of the pole above the lettering on PL 719097 are Doors & Sash with the last two word to the left being MFG CO.  The first word visible I can only make out 5 letters, looking to be ARNES or ARMES.  The first obscured letter looks to have a straight edge on it's right side to me though.

And my doubts about it being what is today Secaucus Junction are stronger due to the lower track now looking to me more than 4 tracks, possibly 5 or 6 now?  In addition, looking closer, there looks to be a second crossing behind the first which explains the semaphores in the distance.

Tim Barney

On 8/5/2017 9:26 AM, abrown@... [STMFC] wrote:
Forgot to mention that the ORER doesn't say anything about the height of the PSEX hoppers.

Anyone recognize the industry behind the embankment, to the left of the overhead bridge?

AL B.



CNJ Boxcar oddity

Brian Carlson
 

While working on a portion of my next presentation I came across an oddity in the CNJ section of the July 1950 ORER. There is a listing for 1 car in the 33658-36457 series. The particulars of this series are fascinating for 1950.

Inside length 34’-9” inside height 6’-10”, outside length 35’-6” door 5’-6” x 6’-5” At first, I thought this might have been a boxcar converted to hopper service but it is classified as an XM and there are no footnote explaining it.  Under the “Markings and kind of Car” column it states, “Bradford steel center sill and pressed steel ends.”

 

This is an awfully small boxcar for 1950. Does anyone have more info or a photo of this series? While I won’t cover this car in my talk I am curious about it.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 


Re: a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars

David
 

I'm reasonably convinced these WSS boxes were closely related to the N&W class BS boxes and built by Roanoke sometime in the late 1920s.

David Thompson


Re: Ajax brake wheel size.

 

There are 5 malleable ( cast ) versions of the Ajax 22" vertical brake wheel. These would apply for most of the time period of this list. The first 2 are rare and were only applied to very early gears from the '26 period. I know of only 3 versions of the forged ( stamped ) wheel with 2 coming in at the end of our period of interest. I would very much like to see or be directed to any documentation of any other wheel versions. Gears, that's another story.

As to the original question, all vertical wheel power hand brakes use 22" wheels except for a small number of early outlier wheel / gear variants. None of these outliers has been produced in model form or are likely to be.

Dan Smith


Re: Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume Four

Ted Culotta
 

Whoops. Here is the link!


Cheers,
Ted Culotta

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:
I am pleased to announce Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume Four. It features several articles with deep prototype information and highly informative content about superdetailing models. The highlight is a profile of Jim Dufour's exquisitely detailed Cheshire Branch of the Boston & Maine. The overall "fit and finish" of Jim's layout is among the finest in the hobby. More detail, including ordering information, may be found by clicking the link above. There is a pre-publication discount.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted



Re: a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars

Ted Culotta
 

The Winston Salem Southbound cars were ARA "Double sheathed" (steel with wood lining a la X29, M-26 et al) 1923 design, although photos are extremely scarce. I have a partial photo of one (well it's a negative that I need to print). I bought the neg just for that partial of the WSS car. Once I print it, I will post it on my blog.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: it's just a STRING of hopper cars . . .

al_brown03
 

Forgot to mention that the ORER doesn't say anything about the height of the PSEX hoppers.

Anyone recognize the industry behind the embankment, to the left of the overhead bridge?

AL B.


Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume Four

Ted Culotta
 

I am pleased to announce Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume Four. It features several articles with deep prototype information and highly informative content about superdetailing models. The highlight is a profile of Jim Dufour's exquisitely detailed Cheshire Branch of the Boston & Maine. The overall "fit and finish" of Jim's layout is among the finest in the hobby. More detail, including ordering information, may be found by clicking the link above. There is a pre-publication discount.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: it's just a STRING of hopper cars . . .

al_brown03
 

(1) Public Service Electric & Gas was and is a New Jersey utility. Per the 7/35 ORER, they had 600 55-ton hoppers, PSEX 0001-0600.

(2) Above PL 749097, some lettering just barely shows on the car behind it. I can convince myself it says "PUBLIC SERVICE ELECTRIC CO."

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: it's just a STRING of hopper cars . . .

tbarney2004
 

I can't say that the list would be 100% accurate/inclusive, but the only reporting marks containing -SEX I could find online are:

A: ASEX Armour Stock Express (Armour Car Lines) 7/1932-7/1935 unlikely to be hoppers

D: DSEX East Carbon Development Co. (out of time frame/added 10/2006)

M: MSEX Muessel Brewing Co. (Merchants Despatch, Inc). 7/1935 or
MSEX Mountain States Energy Corp. (out of time frame/added 7/1986/eliminated 10/1987)

P: PSEX Public Service Electric & Gas Co. 7/1930-1/1941

R: RSEX Riverside Chemical Co. (out of time frame/added 1/1975 eliminated 4/1978)

U: USEX United States Railway Equipment Co. (out of time frame/added 4/1955 10/1957-1/1975 eliminated 7/1979)

The above came from Ian Cranstone's website. The page at the below link says the list is incomplete, but it includes ORER info from 8/1920, 7/1923, 7/1930, 7/1932, 7/1935, 7/1937, 4/1938, 1/1941 and newer which is well after the timeframe in question. Link to that copy is http://www.nakina.net/other/report/report.html

Also looks to be 3 or 4 tracks crossing 4 tracks at a 90 degree angle on similar style bridges. I know the configuration of Secaucus Junction today is 4 over 4 at right angles, with the former Erie line under, and the NEC above. Been a few months since I've been through there, but I think the upper tracks cross on through girder bridges similar to those in the picture that are mostly hidden by the platforms. That said, I have doubts that make me want to think this would not be the location.


Tim Barney

On 8/4/2017 11:10 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@hellgatemodels.com [STMFC] wrote:
Hi

I was wondering that too. Given the reporting marks "-SEX", there are only 26 possibilities for what the dash can stand for!

Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: "rwitt_2000@yahoo.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 8:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: it's just a STRING of hopper cars . . .


Claus,

Any guesses about the owner of the string of hoppers behind the PRR ones? To my eyes the reporting marks end in "-SEX". They are
obviously taller than the GLa.

Bob Witt

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Claus Schlund" <claus@hellgatemodels.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




Re: a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars

Brad Andonian
 

Yes, one too many zeros.    Will re check orer 

On Friday, August 4, 2017, 7:55 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

How do you know what series it is? I think you have one too many zeros in your capy data!

Schuyler

Brad Andonian wrote;

Ok, in may orer:

Car series 2000-2024

40-6

10' h

3548 cu ft

1000,000 capy

Need a build date

Image of herald...?

Thanks,

Brad andonian

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, August 4, 2017, 6:16 PM, Brad Andonian wrote:

Fellas,

Anyone have info on the Winston Salem boxcar? Possible car dimensional data, number etc

Thanks,

Brad andonian

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, August 4, 2017, 4:15 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] wrote:

Friends,

Over on the left there is what appears to be a Winston-Salem Southbound.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

On 8/4/17 4:32 PM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] wrote:

Hi List Members,

Here is a nice yard scene with several identifiable cars... from the Barriger collection. Like many in this collection, it needs
some post-processing to return best value.

MC 64878DS auto box
MC 93156 steel auto box

Next track...

PRR 723139 H21a hopper
PRR class XL boxcar (number illegible)
PRR steel drop end gon (number illegible), possibly class G22-subclass or G25 with possible wheel load
NH 109762 DS boxcar with steel ends

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12349994333/in/dateposted/

Enjoy!

Claus Schlund



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