Date   

Confirmation of 3 Orders of 50-ton AAR Emergency Flat Cars

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC,
For a 1/4”-scale (proto-48) model project currently underway, request your help to confirm 3 series of 53’-6”, 50-ton, AAR flat cars as being built with wood stringers (emergency design) vs. the standard design using 4” steel Z stringers.

1. C&O 80625-80724, Ralston Steel Car Co., ordered 8-43, built 5-44.
2. D&RGW 22000-22199, Mount Vernon Car Mfg. Co., ordered 4-43, built 12-43 to 2-44.
3. EJ&E 6375-6574, Ralston Steel Car Co., ordered 12-41, built ca. 1943 (am yet to locate a photo with a readable build date).

Based on the order and build dates it’s likely these cars received wood stringers, however, searches for drawings & other technical data including the C&O H.S. have come up empty. Railroad diagrams for C&O and D&RGW do not specify, and I’ve not located a diagram for the EJ&E cars. Data from Railway Age annual order lists can be used as a general guide, and I have verified that the “composite” design sometimes designated in these lists has been proven to be less than 100% reliable since timing of when the cars were ordered & built was an important factor.

Byron Rose, who 20 years ago produced urethane HO models of emergency 50-ton AAR flat cars (Pittsburgh Scale Models) could not confirm, but he also believes they were likely built to the emergency design.

Request confirmation documented with original-source information of these cars such as a builder drawing or equivalent railroad drawings or bill of materials. Thank you.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ah, so I am NOT the only one that thought that!!

 

Schuyler

 

 

Which railroad's switchers are those?  I love the one to the far left almost completely shrouded in steam.  Looks like something out of a Thomas the Tank Engine episode.  

 

 

Scott Chatfield


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott Chatfield wrote:
"Are we sure that's Omaha?  The nameboard on the station to the does not appear to say OMAHA or even OMAHA NEB.

Which railroad's switchers are those?  I love the one to the far left almost completely shrouded in steam.  Looks like something out of a Thomas the Tank Engine episode."

FWIW, image data from the LoC website states Omaha.  
https://www.loc.gov/item/fsa1998026642/PP/


Ben Hom





Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Are we sure that's Omaha?  The nameboard on the station to the does not appear to say OMAHA or even OMAHA NEB.

Which railroad's switchers are those?  I love the one to the far left almost completely shrouded in steam.  Looks like something out of a Thomas the Tank Engine episode.  


Scott Chatfield


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

Different prototypes. Note the double sheathed end, and the truss rod. The Sunshine and Rapido cars are later prototypes without the truss rods, and the later cars have either Murphy or Dreadnaught ends.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

tyesac@...
 

Those roofs resemble Mather Stock car construction.

Tom Casey

No one has pointed out that the first foreground car, and then the two
after the Rock Island car, have no lateral running boards. How common was
that on box cars, at this date? Or could they be stock cars? Either way,
weren't laterals required by 1938?



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Sep 15, 2017 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

 

No one has pointed out that the first foreground car, and then the two
after the Rock Island car, have no lateral running boards. How common was
that on box cars, at this date? Or could they be stock cars? Either way,
weren't laterals required by 1938?

  http://www.shorpy.com/node/22502

Tim O'


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Dennis Storzek
 

You guys that see corrugations on every roof ought to remember that the main spotting feature of a Viking roof is the big, Big, BIG seam caps, taller but somewhat narrower than Hutchins. Like Hutchins, they have a prominent bolt in a foot or so from the end; unlike Hutchins the bolts have a bent metal clamp under them. See pix:
The clamps are a bit hard to see on the car that is the subject of this pic, but show well in the foreground on the roof the photographer is standing on. Without these features, it's not a Viking roof.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Dennis Storzek
 

The key consideration was a man was not supposed to have to walk on a steel roof; they can be incredibly slippery when wet of snow covered. If the roof had wood sheathing, however, it wasn't any different than wood latitudinal walks, so the railroads omitted same. Many stockcars still had double board roofs, since stock is not considered damaged if the roof drips on them. There were also still a certain amount of inside metal roofs in service, many on reefers, but emos on boxcars. If you see the corner grab irons mounted directly to the roof sheathing, it has to be one of these two types.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Bill Welch
 

No Bob, the car coupled to the RI boxcar w/o a Latitudinal.

Bill Welch


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Tim O'Connor
 


No one has pointed out that the first foreground car, and then the two
after the Rock Island car, have no lateral running boards. How common was
that on box cars, at this date? Or could they be stock cars? Either way,
weren't laterals required by 1938?

  http://www.shorpy.com/node/22502

Tim O'


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Tim O'Connor
 


Really, Yarmouth? I thought that was a Sunshine kit, and soon to be
the Rapido plastic model.

Tim O'


Bill,

You mean the car with the brakeman riding the side ladder, coupled to RI 79609? My interpretation of that is that the car has a very weathered double board roof, with most of the paint worn off the flat surfaces of the roof sheathing boards and running boards. I think the remaining paint in the grooves of the boards is causing an optical illusion of corrugations.

The NP car to the right is offered as a kit from Yarmouth Model Works.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8b14203a.jpg


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Benjamin Hom
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
"Track in center being worked - Viking roof? no brake, most likely A end of car, RI79609 vertical shaft and wheel, far end, next car vertical shaft and wheel, near end, next car vertical shaft and wheel, far end (shaft between the W and A of WABASH), WABASH car, no brake visible, next car (N&W?) vertical shaft and wheel, near end, next car vertical shaft and wheel, near end, then too grainy to see.


Not a Viking roof. Snow softens the details, but you can clearly make out individual boards and fasteners along the outer edges of the roof. The clincher is there are no latitudinals and the corner handholds are mounted directly to the roof.


Ben Hom


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Bruce Smith
 

Peter,

I’m not sure I’d say “many”.  As others have noted, the image does not lend itself well to seeing the brake wheels, but I see hand brakes on most cars.  It is important to note that the lack of a vertical shaft hand brake and wheel did not mean the car was equipped with “power hand brakes”.  While some cars (especially in 1938 when the photo was taken) would have had horizontal shaft power hand brakes, others might have had lever style hand brakes or even horizontal shaft direct take-up (not power) hand brakes.

For this photo, what I see, starting on the left, is:
Milwaukee stock car - vertical shaft and wheel, far end

Track in center being worked - Viking roof? no brake, most likely A end of car, RI79609 vertical shaft and wheel, far end, next car  vertical shaft and wheel, near end, next car  vertical shaft and wheel, far end (shaft between the W and A of WABASH), WABASH car, no brake visible, next car (N&W?) vertical shaft and wheel, near end, next car  vertical shaft and wheel, near end, then too grainy to see.

2 tracks to the right - reefer  vertical shaft and wheel, near end, Double door steel car, no visible brake (most likely power hand brake, far end), car by water column, no visible brake? maybe too grainy to see.

Far right - NP double sheathed car,  vertical shaft and wheel, near end.

So, as far as I can see, the brake wheel is not visible on 3 (maybe 4 if you count the car with only one end showing at the bottom of the photo) and two of those cars are newer steel cars, likely to have horizontal shaft brakes and the third is an older car whose brake wheel should be on the far end and may not be visible simply due to photo quality, but could also be a lever style brake.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



http://www.shorpy.com/node/22502

On September 14, 2017 at 8:00 PM "Peter Burr pburr47@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

In today's Shorpy pic of a Nebraska rail yard in 1938, I notice many of the box cars pictured have no visible brake wheel. What's with that???
-- 


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Robert Heninger
 

Bill,

You mean the car with the brakeman riding the side ladder, coupled to RI 79609? My interpretation of that is that the car has a very weathered double board roof, with most of the paint worn off the flat surfaces of the roof sheathing boards and running boards. I think the remaining paint in the grooves of the boards is causing an optical illusion of corrugations.

The NP car to the right is offered as a kit from Yarmouth Model Works.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Bill Welch
 

Meanwhile no one has mentioned the Viking roof in the foreground.

Bill Welch


Re: SFRD 17558 Rr-25

Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler the original post is on the Yahoo web site. It's actually very easy
to find.

Jack, and others, when you are making a comment on a linked image, PLEASE include the link to the photos you’re talking about., It’s not easy to go back and find the original email, and it’s not hard to do.



Schuyler


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Walter
 

Looks like brakeman is setting the hand brake on the reefer in the lower right.


Re: Building the new Owl Mountain flat car

Allen Montgomery
 

Congrats dude!!!
The demos look great. Did you do the weathering? I'm so happy for you that you are getting a nice product line together.When and at what price are the narrow lumber loads coming out?
Here at the WDHS, we are taking the first steps to self sufficiency. One of the ways I think we should go is to offer up some of the buildings and scenery stuff that we have created on our own. Lenny has been busy converting blueprints I got from the American Heritage Center up in Laramie into laser cut kits and possibly 3D. In fact, the two of us are leaving on Monday for another research trip to the area. I've run the cost analysis for custom colors of ground foam and it shouldn't be a problem to offer a wide range of western foliage that can't be found anywhere else.
Maybe we should talk about a cross promo thing for the future. Anwho, I'm stoked for ya bud.
Put me down for a flatcar. I want to try it out.
Nothin but love,
Allen


On Thursday, September 14, 2017, 6:36:05 PM MST, owlmtmodels@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

Bill,

1. The Steps are brass castings, as are the brake wheel and roping staples.

2. Complete Roster is reposted at http://www.owlmtmodels.com/OMM_Aug_2017_News/OMM_August_2017_News.html

Advanced reservations are closing Friday, Sept 15, 2017.  Public release will follow our filling of the advanced reservation orders.

Jason Hill
OwlMtModels, LLC



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Two questions Tony

1.) are the Sill Steps plastic or metal?

2.) Did the TN&O own any of these?

Bill Welch
 


Re: SFRD 17558 Rr-25

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Jack, and others, when you are making a comment on a linked image, PLEASE include the link to the photos you’re talking about., It’s not easy to go back and find the original email, and it’s not hard to do.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 12:53 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: SFRD 17558 Rr-25





Tim,



Great find. That's just a wonderful series of photos at State Line Tower, with a lot of trains, really giving a feel for the busyness of this area.. I'd forgotton that the late Bill Raia had albums up in Flickr. .



My gut feel was this set was sometime in the early '60s. Trying to verify that without a lot of research, the only thing I can offer is that NYC DD boxcar just ahead of the reefer. The cigar band logo dates from 1959, but the line omitted from the reporting marks dates it later than Sept 18, 1961, per Terry Link's CASO website.



Anyhow, I'm darn sure that Flickr's stupid "Taken on January 16, 2012" is very, very wrong.





Jack Mullen







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy pic Omaha railyard 1938

Benjamin Hom
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
"I would agree with Marty on the use of lever-type hand brakes.
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/22502?size=_original#caption 
 
There are a couple elements about the image that make it difficult to see staff-mounted handbrake wheels sticking above the car ends. One is visible in the foreground on a Rock Island car. As you scan deeper into the image, the photo angle and the distance work against us to see these details. After zooming in a bit, I’m unable to determine if I see a brake wheel or part of a latitudinal running board on the dreadnaught end car in the near center of the image, just before the steam loco tender. The car just beyond looks like it might have a lever-type hand brake and the details are a bit fuzzier."

A note about photos on Shorpy - keep in mind that it's a blog that links photos from other collections, in this case, the Library of Congress' Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information.  Going to the source collection yields much more than what's posted to the blog.  The LoC has digitized this collection, including high-resolution TIFFs, which are available on their website.

Here's a link to the image at the LoC website where you can download the TIFF:

As Greg Martin says, "Feed your head" - don't wait for someone to spoon-feed information to you.


Ben Hom




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