Date   

Coil cars

Larry Smith
 

I wish to thank everyone who provided me with the info on the TCIX
cars. I have since found that they were built in 1947. Could anyone
take a look at a 48 ORER and see if they were listed.

Thanks

Larry Smith


Seaboard By Products

Larry Smith
 

Does anyone have a photot of any equipment operated by Seaboard By
Products. The reporting marks are SBPX. They became a part of Koppers
and I do know that they owned hoppers. From what I understand they were
a coke producer.

Larry Smith


Re: SCCX Tank Car Movements (was More reefer chat)

Len Allman <allmansipe@...>
 

--- "Chet French <cfrench@...>"
<cfrench@...> wrote:
Group,

The SCCX cars appeared to be moving reverse route
mty. I have found
the routing for the loads on the Wabash from Forrest
in several
symbol reports from 1954. The loads moved via the
Wabash to
Suspension Bridge NY-LV-CNJ-Shell Oil, Sewaren, NJ.
I noticed at
least one car moved Suspension Bridge-NYC-Sewaren.
This would have
included a move from Windsor, Ont to Niagara Falls,
Ont. I'm
guessing
the rest of the route was Forrest-TPW-Ft.
Madison-ATSF. Did the ATSF
serve the refinery at Martinez or was that SP
business? Total mtys
moving through the interchange in 1955: 144 - SCCX,
30 - SHPX, 4 -
GATX, 1 - NATX. Exceptions: one SCCX mty went to
Blackwell, OK. One
SCCX mty originated from Niagara Falls, NY and one
SCCX from Dayton,
OH.

Next problem. I also noticed Armour cars moving mty
from Chicago
through the interchange to Peoria 128 mty reefers,
I believe all in
the 1 - 2134 series, and about half that many ATLX
tank cars. I
don't know if they terminated in Peoria or were
billed to the TPW
Agent for further movement. I don't recall an
Armour facility
there. Did they have a contract with a vendor to do
repair work in
Peoria?

The neat thing about railroading in the 1940's and
50's was that all
this interchange took place in a small town of about
1000 pop.
surrounded by corn fields. NS tore this line out in
1991.

Chet French
Dixon, IL



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Re: Truck Ban Dates

Jeff English
 

Guy wilber wrote:

"T", "L", and "I" Section Trucks - January 1, 1957. This ban
included both
the Vulcan and Andrews design side frames cast with "L" and "I"
sections. It
did NOT include the cast Andrews with "U" section (USRA), nor
similar designs
(Pennsy Crown).
Guy,
I had previously recorded data from Richard Hendrickson
that at an unspecified date in 1957, an interchange ban was put
into effect against trucks without integrally-cast journal boxes.
Does this jibe with your data?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@...

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Truck Ban Dates

Jeff English
 

Guy Wilber wrote:

<<Were arch bars, etc. ever banned from non-interchange service
(e.g.,
cabooses) prior to creation of the FRA? >>

Not that I am aware of.
Isn't this a self-contradictory concept? The AAR is a
cooperative organization, which sets standards (the Interchange
Rules) by which members accept cars from other members. As
such, the AAR has no jurisdiction over what any individual member
road operates on their own lines, nor should it.
Before FRA was created, the ICC had many rules that
carried the weight of law, with safety as the justification (e.g. they
enforced the Safety Appliance Act provisions), but this has nothing
to do with AAR Interchange Rules.
There is a big difference between "banned from
interchange", which is a voluntary compliance with AAR rules, and
"prohibited by ICC (or FRA)", which made some car features
illegal.
P.S., thanks, Guy, for the updated info on the phase-out of
archaic truck sideframes.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@...

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: SCCX Tank Car Movements (was More reefer chat)

Chet French <cfrench@gallatinriver.net> <cfrench@...>
 

Group,

The SCCX cars appeared to be moving reverse route mty. I have found
the routing for the loads on the Wabash from Forrest in several
symbol reports from 1954. The loads moved via the Wabash to
Suspension Bridge NY-LV-CNJ-Shell Oil, Sewaren, NJ. I noticed at
least one car moved Suspension Bridge-NYC-Sewaren. This would have
included a move from Windsor, Ont to Niagara Falls, Ont. I'm
guessing
the rest of the route was Forrest-TPW-Ft. Madison-ATSF. Did the ATSF
serve the refinery at Martinez or was that SP business? Total mtys
moving through the interchange in 1955: 144 - SCCX, 30 - SHPX, 4 -
GATX, 1 - NATX. Exceptions: one SCCX mty went to Blackwell, OK. One
SCCX mty originated from Niagara Falls, NY and one SCCX from Dayton,
OH.

Next problem. I also noticed Armour cars moving mty from Chicago
through the interchange to Peoria 128 mty reefers, I believe all in
the 1 - 2134 series, and about half that many ATLX tank cars. I
don't know if they terminated in Peoria or were billed to the TPW
Agent for further movement. I don't recall an Armour facility
there. Did they have a contract with a vendor to do repair work in
Peoria?

The neat thing about railroading in the 1940's and 50's was that all
this interchange took place in a small town of about 1000 pop.
surrounded by corn fields. NS tore this line out in 1991.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


New Proto48 Website

losgatos48 <endeimling@attbi.com> <endeimling@...>
 

The new Proto48 Modeler site is up and running. This replaces the
old Proto Journal website. The new domain is
http://www.proto48.org/

We try to feature accurate model building.

Gene Deimling


Re: Trucks and Axles

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@indy.rr.com> <rmwitt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., James D Thompson <jaydeet@i...> wrote:
Please advise how someone can detect the difference from a photo
between
a truck having a 5 1/2" x 10" axle journal from one having a 6" x
11"axle journal.

If the photo is sharp enough and close enough, you can read that
data off the sideframe casting. Failing that, 70-ton trucks often have
enough additional "bulk" in the casting to distinguish them from
50-ton trucks, with some practice. The same can be said for comparing
70-ton trucks to 85/90/100-ton trucks.
Another way is to check the wheelbase. Typically 70-ton trucks have a
wheelbase of 5'-8" and 50-ton trucks wheelbase is 5'-6". Higher
capacity "modern" trucks have longer wheelbases.

Bob Witt


Re: F&C ERIE Milk Car

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

But I think the critical thing here is that, as Eric quotes the F&C
History Page as saying that the car is "based on the 1932 ARA Boxcar
design."

Note that it says "based on," not "is a duplicate of." The ERIE's milk
cars weren't much like a typical 1932 ARA Box, so the dimensional
differences may be appropriate, and the model may be "correct."
If you're talking about the 6600-series, yes they were a modified
version of the Erie's ARA 1932 boxes: Viking roof, Buckeye ends,
vertical brake staff, same sides and underframe.

David Thompson


Trucks and Axles

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Please advise how someone can detect the difference from a photo between
a truck having a 5 1/2" x 10" axle journal from one having a 6" x 11"
axle journal.
If the photo is sharp enough and close enough, you can read that data
off the sideframe casting. Failing that, 70-ton trucks often have enough
additional "bulk" in the casting to distinguish them from 50-ton trucks,
with some practice. The same can be said for comparing 70-ton trucks
to 85/90/100-ton trucks.

David Thompson


Re: AAR flat cars was: Intermountain 3/4 idEnds

Scott Pitzer
 

But the car design is more telling (the 70 ton AAR flat cars have exposed bolsters and a lower deck.)
Sometimes models don't look right with (accurate) representations of 50-ton trucks under 70-ton cars. I've used Bowser metal 70-ton trucks under two-bay cement cars and three-bay coal cars. They're not perfect but the "bulk" of the sideframe looks better. Are there cases where the sideframe is exactly the same with only the journal size changed to allow the extra capacity?
On the other hand, there's the example of the Atlas 50-ton coal cars that have wheels that look more like what you'd see on a 70-ton car. (Thicker "tires".) At least we can mix and match.
Scott Pitzer

Please advise how someone can detect the difference from a photo between
a truck having a 5 1/2" x 10" axle journal from one having a 6" x 11"
axle journal.

Tim Gilbert


Re: SCCX Tank Car Movements (was More reefer chat)

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

"Beckert, Shawn" wrote:

In his very informative post this morning, Chet French
mentioned, among other items,

...a steady stream of mty SCCX tank cars along with
some GATX and SHPX moving from Sewaren, NJ to Martinez,
California.
SCCX tank cars belonged to the Shell companies, though I
disremember whether SCCX reporting marks were for Shell Oil
or the Shell Chemical Division. Martinez, California was the
site of their very large refinery and chemical plant.

Presumably these cars were moving loaded to Sewaren, New Jersey.
Can any of you East Coast listmembers tell us what might have
been located there that would need a great number of Shell tank
cars?
According to Yahoo Maps, Sewaren NJ is located across the Arthur Kill
from the west side of Staten Island. These is a slew of refineries and
petrochemical plants - Conrail referred to the areas the Chemical Coast.
Ordinarily, crude oil is (was) brought in by tanker. It appears that for
some reason, there was a stoppage of the trade. While I do not remember
exactly what happened in 1955, but the decade of the Fifties had a lot
of Longshoreman and Tugboat strikes. The tank cars may have had to be
used to supply crude to the chemical coast.

I'm also very curious as to how they got home - sent through
Chicago, maybe, to be returned via the CNW-UP-SP Overland Route?
Private Tank Car Lines earned mileage revenue for Empty Car Miles from
each carrier so long as the Empty Miles were less than Loaded Car Miles
for that carrier. Shell would have tried to maximize this as much as
possible so the answer will come from what was the normal route for SCCX
cars.

Hope someone else can remember more than me, Tim Gilbert

Shawn Beckert

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Re: Age of Freight Cars

Stuart A. Forsyth <forsyths@...>
 

Keith - Thanks for the quick reply. - Cheers, Stuart

On 1/30/03 3:16 PM, "Keith Jordan" <kjordan@...> wrote:

Stuart,

Yes, I transposed numbers in the 25-30 year bracket for 1960. It should be
96,320.

Good catch!

Keith

From: "Stuart A. Forsyth" <forsyth@...>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:42:11 -0800
To: <kjordan@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Age of Freight Cars

On 1/29/03 3:40 PM, "Keith Jordan" <kjordan@...> wrote:

Jan. 1, 1960
14.85% 1 to 5 years old 248,397
16.28% 6 to 10 years old 272,296
17.76% 11 to 15 years old 292,072
14.81% 16 to 20 years old 247,838
8.38% 21 to 25 years old 140,171
5.60% 25 to 30 years old 93,620
22.32% Over 30 years old 373,400
Total owned 1,672,794
Hi Keith,

There may be a typo in this data. The individual numbers add up to a total
of 1,667,794--not 1,672,794. I'm not sure where the total is in error or
one of the individual numbers, but I thought I would flag it for you.

Thanks for sharing this!

Cheers,

Stuart

--
Stuart A. Forsyth
forsyth@...



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Re: Age of Freight Cars

Keith Jordan <kjordan@...>
 

Stuart,

Yes, I transposed numbers in the 25-30 year bracket for 1960. It should be
96,320.

Good catch!

Keith

From: "Stuart A. Forsyth" <forsyth@...>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:42:11 -0800
To: <kjordan@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Age of Freight Cars

On 1/29/03 3:40 PM, "Keith Jordan" <kjordan@...> wrote:

Jan. 1, 1960
14.85% 1 to 5 years old 248,397
16.28% 6 to 10 years old 272,296
17.76% 11 to 15 years old 292,072
14.81% 16 to 20 years old 247,838
8.38% 21 to 25 years old 140,171
5.60% 25 to 30 years old 93,620
22.32% Over 30 years old 373,400
Total owned 1,672,794
Hi Keith,

There may be a typo in this data. The individual numbers add up to a total
of 1,667,794--not 1,672,794. I'm not sure where the total is in error or
one of the individual numbers, but I thought I would flag it for you.

Thanks for sharing this!

Cheers,

Stuart

--
Stuart A. Forsyth
forsyth@...



Re: SCCX Tank Car Movements (was More reefer chat)

Richard Hendrickson
 

Shawn Beckert writes:

In his very informative post this morning, Chet French
mentioned, among other items,

...a steady stream of mty SCCX tank cars along with
some GATX and SHPX moving from Sewaren, NJ to Martinez,
California.
SCCX tank cars belonged to the Shell companies, though I
disremember whether SCCX reporting marks were for Shell Oil
or the Shell Chemical Division. Martinez, California was the
site of their very large refinery and chemical plant.
I also found this piece of information interesting, and somewhat
surprising. SCCX cars were operated by Shell of California (Shell Chemical
cars bore SCMX reporting marks) and normally didn't stray beyond the
western states, so something unusual seems to have been reflected by the
movement Chet reports.
At one time, Shell's Eastern affiliate had their own tank car fleet under
SEPX reporting marks, but these were merged into the midwest Shell (Roxana
Petroleum) RPX fleet during WW II. Midwest Shell then got out of the tank
car business in the early '50s, divesting themselves of more than 3,000
tank cars in the process (it would be interesting to know where those cars
went - they didn't go to Shell of Calif., whose fleet size remained more or
less constant at 600-700 cars. My guess would be that they were sold to,
and leased back from, General American but I'm not aware of any direct
evidence for this.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Passenger Car Question

Jeff Hands <jhands@...>
 

Loaded question. It matters how well the loco is sprung and balanced. It matters how much weight is in the boiler. It matters what the locomotive driver treads are made of.
The easy solution for brass passenger cars is to get the Intermountain needle bearing wheelsets - which are expensive, but roll great.
My Key Crown Niagara struggles with 10 cars, my Westside destreamlined J-3 Hudson will walk away with around 12 cars, my LMB Niagara will run great with 22 cars, and my old Tenshodo Mohawk (unsprung, boiler packed with Cerro bend) will walk away with 24. (These are mostly brass oem trucks, or Central Valleys, and I haven't installed the roller bearing wbeelsets yet) Most of my cars are Great Brass Fleet or Soho, JC and Walthers heavyweights, and weighted heavyweights hacked from Rivarrossi 12-1's with CV trucks, some in need of lubrication (haven't been serviced in years!)
J


benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Eric Thur wrote:
I wanted to ask any of you who run Brass passenger car
trains, how many Brass cars can you pull, before
slipping starts, with an average size Engine, 4-8-2,
4-8-4 etc, with Can motors ? Do you use all Brass cars
or mix some in with Plastic ones. Is there a way to
free up the wheels to roll better on the Brass cars,
i.e. Teflon bushings, or re-drilling the needle
bearing holes ? Basically I have a few Brass prototype
Passenger cars. I wanted to add a few more , but I
don't want to get to a point where My engines won't
pull at least 10-12 cars total.
Eric, recommend you post this question to the Passenger Car List,
moderated by Tom Madden:
To subscribe:
PassengerCarList-subscribe@...
To Post:
PassengerCarList@...
Ben Hom
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STMFC-unsubscribe@...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


SCCX Tank Car Movements (was More reefer chat)

Shawn Beckert
 

Fellow Listers,

In his very informative post this morning, Chet French
mentioned, among other items,

...a steady stream of mty SCCX tank cars along with
some GATX and SHPX moving from Sewaren, NJ to Martinez,
California.
SCCX tank cars belonged to the Shell companies, though I
disremember whether SCCX reporting marks were for Shell Oil
or the Shell Chemical Division. Martinez, California was the
site of their very large refinery and chemical plant.

Presumably these cars were moving loaded to Sewaren, New Jersey.
Can any of you East Coast listmembers tell us what might have
been located there that would need a great number of Shell tank
cars?

I'm also very curious as to how they got home - sent through
Chicago, maybe, to be returned via the CNW-UP-SP Overland Route?

Shawn Beckert


Re: Intermountain 3/4 idEnds

Richard Hendrickson
 

I also have one Pittsburgh Scale Models AAR 70 Ton Flat, with no decals,
offered at $27.00.
Andy, I still have some Westrail decal sets for some of these cars, if
whoever buys the kit wants lettering for it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Windex

Ian Cranstone
 

Of course, if you saw My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you'd also
know of its wonderous healing qualities.
Hmmm, I'm gonna to be getting taunted big time when folks see me using
Windex for modelling purposes -- I'm engaged to a Greek girl, and am
currently living the sequel to My Big Fat Greek Wedding...

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Re: Passenger Car Question

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> <b.hom@...>
 

Eric Thur wrote:
I wanted to ask any of you who run Brass passenger car
trains, how many Brass cars can you pull, before
slipping starts, with an average size Engine, 4-8-2,
4-8-4 etc, with Can motors ? Do you use all Brass cars
or mix some in with Plastic ones. Is there a way to
free up the wheels to roll better on the Brass cars,
i.e. Teflon bushings, or re-drilling the needle
bearing holes ? Basically I have a few Brass prototype
Passenger cars. I wanted to add a few more , but I
don't want to get to a point where My engines won't
pull at least 10-12 cars total.


Eric, recommend you post this question to the Passenger Car List,
moderated by Tom Madden:

To subscribe:
PassengerCarList-subscribe@...

To Post:
PassengerCarList@...


Ben Hom

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