Date   

Re: UP B-50-17 boxcar

brianleppert@att.net
 

The Union Pacific B-50-17 rebuilt boxcars rode on trucks with cast steel side frames with Barber Lateral Motion Devises.  Photos of these boxcars in Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Cars article #13, June 2004 RMC show a variety of side frame shapes.  One of these is accurately modeled by Tahoe Model Works' TMW-109/209 Barber Lateral Motion 50-Ton Truck.

These can be seen at  resincarworks.com/tahoe.htm

These are also accurate trucks for Owl Mountain Models' new SP F-50-10 and F-50-12 flat cars, OMM #2003 and #2005.

I have seen no photos of UP B-50-17 cars on Barber S-1-L trucks.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Glass loaded on freight car

Eric Hansmann
 

I was checking the Historic Pittsburgh site and found a new collection of images from PPG Industries. These links lead to a description page. Once the page loads, click on the image to view a large size.

 

Here’s a look inside of a box car with a load of plate glass, circa 1945.

http://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A20170227-hpichswp-0009

 

 

 

A detailed diagram shows the glass making process, circa 1930. Note the raw materials are shoveled from a box car and the finished product is loaded into box cars or gondolas.

http://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A20170227-hpichswp-0030

 

 

 

This gem shows a mid-1920s view of a PPG warehouse in Newark, NJ, with a string of classic freight cars. The loco sports Erie lettering.

http://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A20170227-hpichswp-0002

 

 

 

These are just a few of the many rail and industrial images in the Historic Pittsburgh site.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: [EXTERNAL] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/26/2017 6:43 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] wrote:
Speaking of riveted flats

    Seems this is similar to a flat Red Ball made.  Don't remember if the rivets were close or not.  Might have been a good stand in.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Photos on eBay

Scott
 

Looking at those gets me excited about the upcoming rpm event and digging through the photo vendors stuff.

Scott McDonald


Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

rwitt_2000
 

I agree with Eric that the car with number 7008 looks a lot like a B&O class N-12 with end sills and a built date of 1922 supports that assumption. The use of ladders rather than hand holds and the use of a style and hand holds on the left side of the hopper is another B&O characteristic for stake side twin hoppers.

Regards,

Bob


Re: B&O P-11 Flatcar (F&C 6721)

Chris Adams
 

Wow Ed! That's great information and really enriches the photo Gary linked to. Thanks so much for taking the time to weigh in, and thanks again to the rest of you for responding as well.

I've compiled all this prototype info and photos and included it all in my latest blog post, with credit - and gratitude :^)

Thanks again,
Chris
Modeling the New Haven Railroad's Connecticut Valley Line in October, 1948.


Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

Eric Hansmann
 

The RF&P October 1926 ORER listing includes two hopper series.

 

3401-3505 :: 100 cars with 1667 cubic capacity, 30-foot interior length, and 10-foot height to eave

3506-3590 :: 80 cars with 1880 cubic capacity, 30-foot, 6-inch interior length, and 10-foot, 10-inch height to eave

 

I suspect RF&P sand car 7006 from the photo on eBay was converted from a hopper in the 3401-3505 series. Note the angle of the center slope sheets is similar to that used on earlier hopper designs. Here's the link to RF&P 7006 again.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-7006-converted-covered-hopper-8x10-photo/372085206789?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47507%26meid%3D5c25fea7069d4044ac18d9e72e9dc5fe%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122722159904&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

 




Upon magnification, the built date looks like 3-22. The heavy end sills are similar to pre-USRA hopper designs. The ladders remind me of a B&O hopper class.

 

Here's an RF&P hopper with more of a USRA look. You might need to copy the link into a WORD doc to make it complete.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-3549-USRA-design-hopper-8x10-photo/122722159904?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47507%26meid%3Db90139c3858b4a7e92240bf05811cb8a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D372085206789&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

On September 26, 2017 at 3:00 AM "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bob,

 

Not apparently from our era. The reweigh date is 6-68. My 1958 ORER does not list this group of cars. At that time the RF&P owned 16 1700 cubic foot hoppers in series 3402-3501; 48 of 1880 cubic feet in series 3506-3555; and 30 of the same dimensions in series 3561-3590. The latter two series were USRA clones from the 1920s according to Richard Hendrickson.

 

The car in question seems to be one of the USRA clones. Though I can’t read all the small lettering, it does say the car is restricted to sand loading service (note the spillage under the car) with a return location of Dillwyn, Virginia. Dillwyn was at the end (literally) of the C&O Dillwyn subdivision (now the Buckingham Branch Railroad) where there was a sand loader owned by the Willis Sand Co., a division of the Kyanite Mining Corporation. The sand was a by-prodict from their kyanite mine on nearby Willis Mountain. The loader track at Dillwyn was often crowded with covered hoppers up into the 1980s, among them similar rebuilt RF&P covered hoppers of a different class. The loader and track are still there, though no longer in use.

 

Though I can’t say for certain, I believe RF&P 7006 was in company service (though going off-line) for carrying locomotive sand.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:00 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This covered hopper appears to be a conversion from an open top hopper, especially considering the bays:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone know about the history of this or other (assumed) cars in the series?

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Bob Chaparro

 

Hemet, CA

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: [EXTERNAL] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bruce;

I was just saying that the MILW also had cast steel 4-truck flats like the F34. Any idea how long these guys lasted?

Speaking of riveted flats, these early 20thC HD flats have that proliferation of riveting because they were sandwiching numerous plates together to get the necessary strength to resist failure, and in such great cases as this, the riveting almost overwhelms the available space in which to rivet!

One of my most favorite flats is the PRR F25 well flats, on which they sandwiched several shaped plates along the bottom of the side, to achieve necessary strength, and resulted in a really one of a kind look.

There weren't a lot of roads that owned HD, depressed center, well and well hole cars, but they sure are beautiful.

Love these cars!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:31 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car



Elden,

I agree, with one minor point and that is that the PRR F34s were cast bodies (kits) from GSC and the MILW car has a neat riveted bodies :)

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 26, 2017, at 8:10 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

That IS a great photo. I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats. Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

BlockedBlockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <BlockedBlockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor






------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)" <Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil> >
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: [EXTERNAL] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car

Bruce Smith
 

Elden,

I agree, with one minor point and that is that the PRR F34s were cast bodies (kits) from GSC and the MILW car has a neat riveted bodies :)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Sep 26, 2017, at 8:10 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

That IS a great photo.  I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats.  Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor






------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)" <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
------------------------------------


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Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

James McDonald
 

Hi Bob and Garth,

I can confirm that the car in question, and its seven brethren also converted from open hoppers, was in use for locomotive sand exactly as Garth describes. Their conversion happened after the time of this list.

All the best,

James
=-=-=
James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD.

On Sep 26, 2017, at 7:05 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

________________________________________________________________________
6b. Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?
Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@embarqmail.com ggg9y
Date: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:00 am ((PDT))

Bob,

Not apparently from our era. The reweigh date is 6-68. My 1958 ORER does not list this group of cars. At that time the RF&P owned 16 1700 cubic foot hoppers in series 3402-3501; 48 of 1880 cubic feet in series 3506-3555; and 30 of the same dimensions in series 3561-3590. The latter two series were USRA clones from the 1920s according to Richard Hendrickson.

The car in question seems to be one of the USRA clones. Though I can’t read all the small lettering, it does say the car is restricted to sand loading service (note the spillage under the car) with a return location of Dillwyn, Virginia. Dillwyn was at the end (literally) of the C&O Dillwyn subdivision (now the Buckingham Branch Railroad) where there was a sand loader owned by the Willis Sand Co., a division of the Kyanite Mining Corporation. The sand was a by-prodict from their kyanite mine on nearby Willis Mountain. The loader track at Dillwyn was often crowded with covered hoppers up into the 1980s, among them similar rebuilt RF&P covered hoppers of a different class. The loader and track are still there, though no longer in use.

Though I can’t say for certain, I believe RF&P 7006 was in company service (though going off-line) for carrying locomotive sand.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:00 AM, thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





This covered hopper appears to be a conversion from an open top hopper, especially considering the bays:




http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-7006-converted-covered-hopper-8x10-photo-/372085206789?hash=item56a201af05:g:fZ0AAOSwLdNZxvP2 <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-7006-converted-covered-hopper-8x10-photo-/372085206789?hash=item56a201af05:g:fZ0AAOSwLdNZxvP2>



Does anyone know about the history of this or other (assumed) cars in the series?



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [EXTERNAL] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

That IS a great photo. I just love flat cars in general, but the oddballs even more.

I don't know the details, but MILW had a nice (small) fleet of HD flats, including those nice cast steel GSC 4-trucks flats. Very like the PRR F34's.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:01 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car




This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191 <Blockedhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191>

Tim O'Connor


Re: UP B-50-17 boxcar

Bryian Sones
 

Arnold,

I just took a look at my Sunshine Model kits of the U.P. B-50-17.  The reference photos show them riding on what appears to be a Barber s1 freight truck. Just off the top of my head I believe the Rapido Barber s1 truck would be a close match.

Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta CA 


On Monday, September 25, 2017 5:56 PM, "Arnold van Heyst mrdata1968@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Does anyone have information of the trucktype used for UP B-50-17 boxcar in the 1950's?
Thanks allready.



Re: Glass Placard

Eric Hansmann
 

This Libby reefer illustrates a couple details I see on images of wood sheathed cars. 

Note a route card is in the lower right corner. 

There seems to be a card remnant beside the LD LMT data.

More card remnants are seen near the GLASS placard.


On some images, the light and photo angle line up to reveal a number of tacks remaining on the sheathing after the cards have disintegrated. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On September 25, 2017 at 11:56 PM "thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

This refrigerator car has a placard marked "Glass":

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Libby-McNeill-Libby-LMLX-1656-URTX-wood-reefer-refrigerator-car-8x10-photo-/122722200128?hash=item1c92d02a40:g:hUYAAOSwV25Zxv6o

 

 

 

While Libby was known more for canned food I assume there is a load of jars in this car and not some car structure or appliance made of glass, correct?

 

 

 

Bob Chaparro

 

Hemet, CA

 




Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

Eric Hansmann
 

Upon magnification, the built date looks like 3-22. The heavy end sills are similar to pre-USRA hopper designs. The ladders remind me of a B&O hopper class.


Here's an RF&P hopper with more of a USRA look. You might need to copy the link into a WORD doc to make it complete.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-3549-USRA-design-hopper-8x10-photo/122722159904?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47507%26meid%3Db90139c3858b4a7e92240bf05811cb8a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D372085206789&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN



On September 26, 2017 at 3:00 AM "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bob,

Not apparently from our era. The reweigh date is 6-68. My 1958 ORER does not list this group of cars. At that time the RF&P owned 16 1700 cubic foot hoppers in series 3402-3501; 48 of 1880 cubic feet in series 3506-3555; and 30 of the same dimensions in series 3561-3590. The latter two series were USRA clones from the 1920s according to Richard Hendrickson.

The car in question seems to be one of the USRA clones. Though I can’t read all the small lettering, it does say the car is restricted to sand loading service (note the spillage under the car) with a return location of Dillwyn, Virginia. Dillwyn was at the end (literally) of the C&O Dillwyn subdivision (now the Buckingham Branch Railroad) where there was a sand loader owned by the Willis Sand Co., a division of the Kyanite Mining Corporation. The sand was a by-prodict from their kyanite mine on nearby Willis Mountain. The loader track at Dillwyn was often crowded with covered hoppers up into the 1980s, among them similar rebuilt RF&P covered hoppers of a different class. The loader and track are still there, though no longer in use.

Though I can’t say for certain, I believe RF&P 7006 was in company service (though going off-line) for carrying locomotive sand.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:00 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:




 


This covered hopper appears to be a conversion from an open top hopper, especially considering the bays:


 



 


Does anyone know about the history of this or other (assumed) cars in the series?

 


Thanks.

 


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 




Culotta photos on Ebay

Andy Carlson
 

About 4 years ago, I was returning cross-country from a Minot, N.D. GN convention. I dropped as due south as the bad lands allows until I came across an East/West RR right of way in South Dakota. I paralleled the line West and soon the line had active track. I came into a very small town (this is S.D.) with an ideal engine facility for a model short line. It seemed to be a former CNW facility for no other reason than the presence of a former CNW 40' DD riveted PS-1 boxcar on the ground used by the signal department as an out building. The all silver painted car had ghost lettering of "The route of the 400". There was also a single sheathed car, truckless as well, used for a storage building.

I imagine that car would still be there today.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"

 

Bill, this one is pretty interesting for two reasons.

First, it's double door PS-1 with riveted sides.

And second, the brake service and journal lube stencils PREDATE the built date
by several months!! :-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122722164723

Tim O'



Re: Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob,

Not apparently from our era. The reweigh date is 6-68. My 1958 ORER does not list this group of cars. At that time the RF&P owned 16 1700 cubic foot hoppers in series 3402-3501; 48 of 1880 cubic feet in series 3506-3555; and 30 of the same dimensions in series 3561-3590. The latter two series were USRA clones from the 1920s according to Richard Hendrickson.

The car in question seems to be one of the USRA clones. Though I can’t read all the small lettering, it does say the car is restricted to sand loading service (note the spillage under the car) with a return location of Dillwyn, Virginia. Dillwyn was at the end (literally) of the C&O Dillwyn subdivision (now the Buckingham Branch Railroad) where there was a sand loader owned by the Willis Sand Co., a division of the Kyanite Mining Corporation. The sand was a by-prodict from their kyanite mine on nearby Willis Mountain. The loader track at Dillwyn was often crowded with covered hoppers up into the 1980s, among them similar rebuilt RF&P covered hoppers of a different class. The loader and track are still there, though no longer in use.

Though I can’t say for certain, I believe RF&P 7006 was in company service (though going off-line) for carrying locomotive sand.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:00 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:





This covered hopper appears to be a conversion from an open top hopper, especially considering the bays:


 



 


Does anyone know about the history of this or other (assumed) cars in the series?

 


Thanks.

 


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Re: Culotta photos on Ebay

Jack Mullen
 

Well spotted, Tim.

First, if you like riveted PS-1, ya gotta love the North Western.

As to the dates, I can't be sure of the month for the brake and lube stencils, but my best guess for the dates is 9-22 and 9-24 respectively. Were you able to get a definite reading?

It makes sense that the brake valve and trucks would be serviced and in working order before they were attached to the car as it's being built, and so have somewhat earlier dates.. That said, the six weeks or so between late Sept and early Nov seems excessive, but I dunno. 

Now I have to look for some other builder's photos with legible fine print.

Jack Mullen


Re: Glass Placard

Tim O'Connor
 


Could be glass jars of food. Libby sold frozen foods too. Or it could just be a load of glass platters (ref: sign on the building).

Here's another glass load - http://www.ebay.com/itm/122722166985

Tim O'


This refrigerator car has a placard marked "Glass":
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122722200128
While Libby was known more for canned food I assume there is a load of jars in this car and not some car structure or appliance made of glass, correct?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: MILW 67053 200-ton 4-truck flat car

Tim O'Connor
 


I theng you veddy mooch


Tim O'Connor wrote:

This is a fascinating photo - I'm guessing circa 1940, with the heavy duty
flat car pressed into service to carry large timbers. But clearly the car is
very overqualified for this duty. Those hills in the background and the Harriman
cars give me the feeling this could be San Luis Obispo, California, on the
Coast Line. And that SP B-50-19 box car... is that a Klasing brake wheel??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/372085310191
      Nope, it's an Equipco wheel, just as listed in Vol. 4 of the Good Book series.

Tony Thompson 


Open Hopper Turned Covered Hopper?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This covered hopper appears to be a conversion from an open top hopper, especially considering the bays:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richmond-Fredericksburg-Potomac-RF-P-7006-converted-covered-hopper-8x10-photo-/372085206789?hash=item56a201af05:g:fZ0AAOSwLdNZxvP2

 

Does anyone know about the history of this or other (assumed) cars in the series?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

30781 - 30800 of 183574