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NYC Steel Gondola photo

robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Re: Side reporting marks

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

 
“The reporting marks assigned by the Car Accounting and Transportation Officers should be placed between the horizontal lines.  If desired the name or initials of owner may be placed above the bars.”

      Note the key words, "should be placed." This was by no means required. There was also a recommendation (about 1915 IIRC) that reporting marks be limited to four characters, but many continued to violate that, from easy ones like D&RGW to bigger ones like NC&StL. Railroads added or dispensed with the horizontal lines as they pleased, as many examples can show.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Side reporting marks

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

Very interesting Tony, since I have a BUILDER PHOTO from July 1946 with the
simple SP and no road name.


   Builders did not always follow the latest drawing, Tim. There are lots of examples from lots of roads, including SP. I'd be happy to supply examples. And anyway, this one is only off one month.

But on further photo searching, I found an Overnight B-50-24 with the simple
SP in July 1946, and another Overnight B-50-24 with the spelled out name from
September 1946.


           That doubtless reflects the changeover, one a month off and the other one correct. And BTW, I note you supply no examples of your claimed 1948 date.

Official documents are rarely as reliable as photographs. You can look that up, too.

         Nice try, Tim, but in this case your own examples strongly support the document date.


Tony Thompson
Worried about dear friend David Sieber

Andy Carlson
 

It has been close to a year since I have last spoken with David Sieber of Reno, NV. I have not gotten any responses from numerous Emails and I do not have his phone number. Anyone reading this note who knows if David is OK and report back?
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Re: Facebook posting of 192 Life Pictures 1943 US Army Rail Move

Tim O'Connor
 


John LOL - that reminds me of Woody Allen's "Sleeper" where they try to
clone their great leader from his nose, the only remnant they have of him.

I've got the kits right here in front of me, the -5/8/9 and the -10/12. They
will both be in company MofW service. Really nice kits!

Tim O'Connor
Re: Placards

Charles Peck
 

This is only supposition but I would be very surprised if military munitions in both
the American Civil War and the Spanish-America War were not placarded in
some fashion when moved by rail. 
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Deis Paul curlyp2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

The earliest regulations I have been able to find are from September 1908 issued by the Interstate Commerce Commission.


The tile of the publication I have is

The American Railway Association RULES and the Interstate Commerce Commission REGULATIONS for the transportation of Explosives. 
The American Railway Association Regulations for the Transportation of Inflammable articles and Acids.

Long title :-)





Paul Deis
D&P Mountain Railroad
SP Santa Margarita Sub
Re: Facebook posting of 192 Life Pictures 1943 US Army Rail Move

John Barry
 



 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


From: "smadanek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Facebook posting of 192 Life Pictures 1943 US Army Rail Move

 
I don't know how thus French site finds them. A lot appear to be posed for the photographer but lots of pix of jeeps and deuces being loaded and traveling on western roads. 


Ken Adams
Re: Glass loaded on freight car

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

 
A cool diagram.  Not mentioned is an interesting detail about the melting and extrusion… the glass is very likely to be floating on a bed of molten tin.  That flotation is why it’s flat.  Another curious thing about glass (at any time)  is it is not a solid – no crystals.  I’m led to understand it is (essentially) an extremely slow moving liquid.

 

Tony is our resident materials guy… perhaps he can expound on this stuff for us.


     Actually, at room temperature silica glass is NOT a liquid any longer, but is rigid. But as Dave says, it's not crystalline. To get to the super-viscous liquid, you have to go up to a couple hundred degrees F (depends on the particular glass). The popular story, that medieval glass is thicker at the bottom than the top, because the glass has been SLOWLY settling, is false. Medieval glass is indeed often uneven in thickness, but if you measure lots of pieces, there are just as many thicker at the top, as there are thicker at the bottom.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Placards

Paul Deis
 

The earliest regulations I have been able to find are from September 1908 issued by the Interstate Commerce Commission.

The tile of the publication I have is

The American Railway Association RULES and the Interstate Commerce Commission REGULATIONS for the transportation of Explosives. 
The American Railway Association Regulations for the Transportation of Inflammable articles and Acids.

Long title :-)





Paul Deis
D&P Mountain Railroad
SP Santa Margarita Sub
Re: Placards

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Thanks, Guy.

 

I was asking about the paper rather than the boards their were attached to.

 

So far, 1907, as you mentioned, is the earliest date I have. That was the year the Bureau of Explosive was formed and it appears it took them around a year to issue their first requirements.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: Placards

Guy Wilber
 

Bob wrote:

"Does anyone know when placards first began appearing on freight cars?"

Are you asking about the placards or placard boards?

The placard boards dimensions (16" x 24") and construction details for use on House Cars with steel ends or all steel construction were adopted as "Recommended Practice" by the MCBA in 1914.

"And when did the practice become formalized through a rule or recommended practice?"

See above.  The first formal requirements I have seen for the use of explosives placards was in 1908 from the Bureau of Explosives.  PRR and other railroads were using placards prior to that year.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
Re: Small LO

Tim O'Connor
 

Jack

I regard glass/sand as a near impossibility for Dupont. Another dense cargo
could be ferrous metal powder. I used to see covered hoppers parked in front
of the Hoeganaes factory in my home town in New Jersey. But I don't think that
Dupont was in that business.

Don't get hung up on LD LMT - this number is a simple CALCULATED value
based on the GRL of the trucks, and the LT WT.

 GRL - LT WT = LD LMT   always

For a "70 ton" car prior to 1963, GRL is always = 210000

Silicon carbide was, and still is, a Dupont industrial product. Norton, here
in Massachusetts, and several others around here are also abrasives manufacturers.
And they all used covered hoppers.

Tim O'



Tim,
That's a possibility, and I hadn't thought of carborundum.  I don't know whether DuPont was a producer of silicon carbide (carborundum).  I know the big player in the Steam Era was, uh, the Carborundum Company, and there were a couple of other firms  focused on basic production of carborundum and other industrial abrasives.

To me, the size of the car suggests the intended cargo would be somewhat more dense. My reasoning is that the relevant weight isn't the nominal capacity, but the load limit.  For GACX 40880, that's 162,100; say 160K.
But the cubic capacity isn't all available -  Granular materials tend to form piles rather than leveling, and the space under the roof doesn't fully fill as material is poured thru the hatches. For the sake of argument, say 1300 cuft of material in a 1400 cuft car. 160,000 / 1300  ~ 120 lb/cuft. All in all, I figure a material with a bulk density around 115 - 125 lb/cuft would be a more likely target.  One common material in that range is glass, either as beads/pellets or cullet. I don't see where that fits into DuPont, though.  Doubtless some  of you know more about Dupont c1950 than I do.
Placards

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Does anyone know when placards first began appearing on freight cars?

 

And when did the practice become formalized through a rule or recommended practice?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: Small LO

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

This car appears in my 1958 ORER, but there are no notes about special loading or assignments. (Poop!)

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sep 29, 2017, at 1:53 AM, jack.f.mullen@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Tim,

That's a possibility, and I hadn't thought of carborundum.  I don't know whether DuPont was a producer of silicon carbide (carborundum).  I know the big player in the Steam Era was, uh, the Carborundum Company, and there were a couple of other firms  focused on basic production of carborundum and other industrial abrasives.

To me, the size of the car suggests the intended cargo would be somewhat more dense. My reasoning is that the relevant weight isn't the nominal capacity, but the load limit.  For GACX 40880, that's 162,100; say 160K.
But the cubic capacity isn't all available -  Granular materials tend to form piles rather than leveling, and the space under the roof doesn't fully fill as material is poured thru the hatches. For the sake of argument, say 1300 cuft of material in a 1400 cuft car. 160,000 / 1300  ~ 120 lb/cuft. All in all, I figure a material with a bulk density around 115 - 125 lb/cuft would be a more likely target.  One common material in that range is glass, either as beads/pellets or cullet. I don't see where that fits into DuPont, though.  Doubtless some  of you know more about Dupont c1950 than I do.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack Mullen
Re: Small LO

Jack Mullen
 

Tim,
That's a possibility, and I hadn't thought of carborundum.  I don't know whether DuPont was a producer of silicon carbide (carborundum).  I know the big player in the Steam Era was, uh, the Carborundum Company, and there were a couple of other firms  focused on basic production of carborundum and other industrial abrasives.

To me, the size of the car suggests the intended cargo would be somewhat more dense. My reasoning is that the relevant weight isn't the nominal capacity, but the load limit.  For GACX 40880, that's 162,100; say 160K.
But the cubic capacity isn't all available -  Granular materials tend to form piles rather than leveling, and the space under the roof doesn't fully fill as material is poured thru the hatches. For the sake of argument, say 1300 cuft of material in a 1400 cuft car. 160,000 / 1300  ~ 120 lb/cuft. All in all, I figure a material with a bulk density around 115 - 125 lb/cuft would be a more likely target.  One common material in that range is glass, either as beads/pellets or cullet. I don't see where that fits into DuPont, though.  Doubtless some  of you know more about Dupont c1950 than I do.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack Mullen
Re: NP 52 foot flatcar 60909

benjamin
 

I found the trucks under the baggage (kitchen) car next to the Army band very interesting.  Does anyone know anything about them and who the car belonged to?

Ben Heinley
Denver, Colorado

Re: [EXTERNAL] Speaking of the New York Central here is an. . .

Ray Breyer
 

>>I and others have repeatedly begged various decal manufacturers for a complete and accurate high-quality set
>>of NYC and P&LE freight car (or even just box car) decals, to no avail.  It will likely be up to motivated
>>individuals to do so.  It is unfortunate someone has not taken this on.
>>Elden "Got many NYC and P&LE projects with no decals" Gatwood




Again, Resin Car Works. They currently have two out of four (five?) of their NYC decal sets available. They include P&LE boxcar decals (of course, they won't do you much good if you're not modeling the 1920s or 1930s.....)

1920s NYC gondola decals will likely be one of next year's offerings. At least, they'll be made; dunno if Frank will want to stock any, or if they'll just be private stock for a few of us. (some of us DO make proper and accurate NYC decals. It's not rocket surgery to do right).

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Re: Speaking of the New York Central here is an. . .

Tim O'Connor
 

Hugh

Most railroads including NYC had standard stencils they created from drawings.
The lettering diagrams are simply instructions for each particular car, but most
cars in a given era shared the stencils for numbers, letters, road names, heralds,
etc. So it's possible to create decal sheets that can cover many different cars.

In the case of the NYC you need a "number jumble" to cover LOT NUMBERS that were
always stenciled on the cars. Also SHOP stencils and jumbles for SHOP DATES. Same
for BUILD DATES. CAPY/LT WT/LD LMT and dimensional data are usually the most specific
for each class, although many classes were nearly identical. Trust stencils are so
small that one can often get away with stuff that's just close enough. And there are
special appliance stencils, the paint stencils (Bill's triangles), load devices,
door stencils, safety stencils - and those are often shared by many cars too.

I guess what I'm saying is that a few Microscale sized sheets of lettering can cover
a whole LOT of different cars. Ted Culotta's NYC box car set, his SP box cars set, and
other sets can do many different cars over a period of time.

Tim O'



NYCSHS has literally hundreds of lettering diagrams and drawings for freight and passenger cars.
A few years ago I had all of them here at my house. I worked up a list of the most important diagrams
and drawings. I believe those were scanned. These were all in the Lans Vail collection. I had at least
seven or eight boxes that I went through. Way too many to scan all of them unless a person had absolutely
nothing else to do for a long time. In many cases there would be a dozen or more iterations based on
the same original drawing or diagram, each one showing a change of some sort, each one dated and
initialed. I have a relationship with the NYCSHS modeling committee. I will inquire about producing
decals. But, it would not be possible to produce everything. The quantity is just too vast. The NYCSHS
now has a permanent home for its archives in Middleburg Heights OH. This will help in the research.
Hugh T Guillaume, former Director, NYCSHS.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Speaking of the New York Central here is an. . .

Ray Breyer
 

Resin Car Works decal set NYC004

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


From: "'Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Speaking of the New York Central here is an. . .

Bill;

I and others have repeatedly begged various decal manufacturers for a complete and accurate high-quality set of NYC and P&LE freight car (or even just box car) decals, to no avail.  It will likely be up to motivated individuals to do so.  The PRR is extremely fortunate to have people like John Frantz to do this for the multitude.  It is unfortunate someone has not taken this on.

We need the many variants as well, to include not only serif and sans serif "Century", but all the subvariants and sizes of logo, cap data, past the end date of this list.  For a start, one can go to the P&LEHS article Larry Kline did on box cars, and go from there.

Elden "Got many NYC and P&LE projects with no decals" Gatwood


-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:52 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Speaking of the New York Central here is an. . .

 

. . .interesting link about their Paint Data Triangle: Blockedhttps://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/paintcodetriangle.pdf

With so much information pity there are no decals for these. How about NYCHS?

Bill Welch





------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J CIV CESAW CESAD (US)" <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
------------------------------------


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Re: Small LO

Tim O'Connor
 

Jack

From Mainline Modeler 5/1982 p.23

100lbs/cubic foot - carborundum (silicon carbide)

^ This ^ is my best guess for the contents of the car. This synthetic compound
is commonly used in abrasives, which definitely did travel in covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor


Among Ted's recent ebay offerings, this photo of a DuPont covered hopper
http://www.ebay.com/itm/372085271042
From the proportions, I first thought it was unusually tall, but taking a better look, and seeing the 1400 CuFt capacity,  I realized it's unusually short (lengthwise). This is a very small cubic capacity for a 70 ton car, and I can't think of other postwar covered hoppers this small. Any idea of the intended cargo?
Jack Mullen
39841 - 39860 of 192760