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Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Bruce Smith
 

Dennis,

One does have to wonder why wheel sets, be they freight or passenger, would be an “express” cargo ;)  Note that the trucks appear to be off of an H21 hopper.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:53 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I find it interesting that the Pennsy found reason to retain the steam line on this car:

http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/undefined/PRR%20F45%20Flat%20Car%20-491165%20E22700%20BLT%203-26%20Wheel%20Loaded%201024x.jpg

  I suppose it makes sense if the normal route is to a passenger car maintenance facility, it would allow adding the car to a deadhead move and still maintain heat to the cars.


Dennis Storzek
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Dennis Storzek
 

I find it interesting that the Pennsy found reason to retain the steam line on this car:

http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/undefined/PRR%20F45%20Flat%20Car%20-491165%20E22700%20BLT%203-26%20Wheel%20Loaded%201024x.jpg

  I suppose it makes sense if the normal route is to a passenger car maintenance facility, it would allow adding the car to a deadhead move and still maintain heat to the cars.


Dennis Storzek
Re: Box Car Crack Filler For Grain Transport

Tim O'Connor
 


At first I thought this was a joke!

 "tar mixed with a small percentage of other and unknown ingredients" !!

I wonder whether it might have stuck to some of the grain itself.

Ah the good old days.

Tim O'



Thought members would enjoy this interesting excerpt from the Fort Madison, Iowa Evening Democrat - December 18, 1919

USE OF PATENT CRACK FILLER FOR CARS SUCCESSFUL

The test of the Baco combination which was recently introduced on the railroads for use in freight cars to stop small grain leakage has been carried on for some time by the Santa Fe and is said by the local employees of the company to be a success in every way. In composition it contains a very large percentage of tar mixed with a small percentage of other and unknown ingredients

The method of procedure in the case of mending car floors and sides is to place a considerable quantity of Baco over a fire to reduce it from a lumpy stiff mass to a simmering ebony liquid in which state it is poured along the seams and tiny openings in the car floor to make the car grain proof.  The loss in grain leakage in freight cars is said to be considerable, several bushels dropping out of a loaded car while in transportation."

Michael Gross

Pasadena, CA
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

Note ALL the wheels are standing on edge. I recall reading years ago was the standard method of handling was to have men roll them. Even though each wheel weighed 750-900 pounds, if held at the proper angle they were easily (relative term) balanced and rolled, same as a mounted truck tire. Once they fell over, they were a major project to lift upright again..


     For anyone interested, I included a photo of an SP workman rolling one of these wheels, in a blog post awhile back. Here's the link:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Dennis Storzek
 

Here is, I think, a more direct link to the Griffin Wheel Co. pic:

https://saintpaulbybike.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/griffin-wheel-company-c1918.jpg

 

Note ALL the wheels are standing on edge. I recall reading years ago was the standard method of handling was to have men roll them. Even though each wheel weighed 750-900 pounds, if held at the proper angle they were easily (relative term) balanced and rolled, same as a mounted truck tire. Once they fell over, they were a major project to lift upright again..

Dennis Storzek
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Jack Mullen
 

Unmounted wheels were indeed shipped in carload lots as new wheels or worn wheels as scrap. Large car shops would be equipped with wheel presses for mounting and dismounting wheels. 

A quick look on the internet phor a photo of a car of wheels came up empty, but here's a neat picture of what seems to be the shipping area at Griffin Wheel's St.Paul plant, c1918. That must be a very sturdy loading dock.


 
Re: RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Tony Thompson
 

RPC 18 is the reference for this. L&N and B&M were the biggest XM1 users, with A&WP, BAR, CGW, CRI&P, Georgia, GF&A, M&StL, SAL, SP, WA&G and WRofA all having some.


         SP built two as tests of the stock design, then changed the design for greater inside height (and modified the underframe), went on to build thousands -- but they are NOT ARA standard cars except those first two.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

Brian is correct, it was rebuilt as a 70-ton capacity car to haul freight car wheelsets, based on an old baggage car chassis. Unfortunately you have axles in there, but by the end date of this list, they were mostly shipping them as complete wheelsets.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:23 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?



This car appears to be a capy of 140,000: Blockedhttp://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/undefined/PRR%20F45%20Flat%20Car%20-491165%20E22700%20BLT%203-26%20Wheel%20Loaded%201024x.jpg

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:13 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

How much would a 33-inch freight car wheel weigh, both new and worn, on average? I appreciate allowances need to be made for wheel style, manufacturer and era, but let's say an "average" wheel in the steam-diesel transition era.

I recall seeing a figure of 800 pounds in the distant past, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

The reason I ask is to settle a debate about how many wheels could be carried in a freight car with a fifty ton capacity.

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

=====================

I'm a little surprised that the MCB drawings someone linked to the other day don't include the weight of the various wheels, but they don't. However, as far as cast iron wheels are concerned, I recall different capacity wheels being referred toin the trade press by weight; 750# wheels, 800# wheels, etc. I would assume that wrought steel wheels of equal size are essentially the same.

Now, did you mean loose wheels, or wheelsets? I had to look into this a number of years ago to estimate a transit weight for a car in preservation, and as I recall, one car axle weighted about the same as one wheel, so a wheelset, two wheels and an axle, was just over 2000#, or one ton.

Dennis Storzek

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

This car appears to be a capy of 140,000: http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/photos/undefined/PRR%20F45%20Flat%20Car%20-491165%20E22700%20BLT%203-26%20Wheel%20Loaded%201024x.jpg







Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:13 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?









---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

How much would a 33-inch freight car wheel weigh, both new and worn, on average? I appreciate allowances need to be made for wheel style, manufacturer and era, but let's say an "average" wheel in the steam-diesel transition era.



I recall seeing a figure of 800 pounds in the distant past, but I have no idea if that is accurate.



The reason I ask is to settle a debate about how many wheels could be carried in a freight car with a fifty ton capacity.



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

=====================



I'm a little surprised that the MCB drawings someone linked to the other day don't include the weight of the various wheels, but they don't. However, as far as cast iron wheels are concerned, I recall different capacity wheels being referred toin the trade press by weight; 750# wheels, 800# wheels, etc. I would assume that wrought steel wheels of equal size are essentially the same.



Now, did you mean loose wheels, or wheelsets? I had to look into this a number of years ago to estimate a transit weight for a car in preservation, and as I recall, one car axle weighted about the same as one wheel, so a wheelset, two wheels and an axle, was just over 2000#, or one ton.



Dennis Storzek
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/247226.aspx





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:13 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?









---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

How much would a 33-inch freight car wheel weigh, both new and worn, on average? I appreciate allowances need to be made for wheel style, manufacturer and era, but let's say an "average" wheel in the steam-diesel transition era.



I recall seeing a figure of 800 pounds in the distant past, but I have no idea if that is accurate.



The reason I ask is to settle a debate about how many wheels could be carried in a freight car with a fifty ton capacity.



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

=====================



I'm a little surprised that the MCB drawings someone linked to the other day don't include the weight of the various wheels, but they don't. However, as far as cast iron wheels are concerned, I recall different capacity wheels being referred toin the trade press by weight; 750# wheels, 800# wheels, etc. I would assume that wrought steel wheels of equal size are essentially the same.



Now, did you mean loose wheels, or wheelsets? I had to look into this a number of years ago to estimate a transit weight for a car in preservation, and as I recall, one car axle weighted about the same as one wheel, so a wheelset, two wheels and an axle, was just over 2000#, or one ton.



Dennis Storzek





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

How much would a 33-inch freight car wheel weigh, both new and worn, on average? I appreciate allowances need to be made for wheel style, manufacturer and era, but let's say an "average" wheel in the steam-diesel transition era.

 

I recall seeing a figure of 800 pounds in the distant past, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

 

The reason I ask is to settle a debate about how many wheels could be carried in a freight car with a fifty ton capacity.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

=====================


I'm a little surprised that the MCB drawings someone linked to the other day don't include the weight of the various wheels, but they don't. However, as far as cast iron wheels are concerned, I recall different capacity wheels being referred toin the trade press by weight; 750# wheels, 800# wheels, etc. I would assume that wrought steel wheels of equal size are essentially the same.


Now, did you mean loose wheels, or wheelsets? I had to look into this a number of years ago to estimate a transit weight for a car in preservation, and as I recall, one car axle weighted about the same as one wheel, so a wheelset, two wheels and an axle, was just over 2000#, or one ton.


Dennis Storzek
Re: Weight Of A Freight Car Wheel?

Jeff Coleman
 

Bob
I'm not sure you'd see individual wheels as a car load but rather a wheel set. Two wheel plates and axle.
33" 50 ton = 2200 lbs & 33" 70 ton 2400 
lbs. These weights would be for new. Worn would only reduce weight by avgerage 100 lbs per set. 

Jeff Coleman

On Oct 3, 2017 1:23 AM, "thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

How much would a 33-inch freight car wheel weigh, both new and worn, on average? I appreciate allowances need to be made for wheel style, manufacturer and era, but let's say an "average" wheel in the steam-diesel transition era.

 

I recall seeing a figure of 800 pounds in the distant past, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

 

The reason I ask is to settle a debate about how many wheels could be carried in a freight car with a fifty ton capacity.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: Thanks: RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Bill Welch
 

I think it is important not too generalize too much about the cars grouped under this banner of Pratt truss frames with Hat Section bracing. Going from memory for example I think the CRI&P and SP cars were taller than the XM-1 design specs while the SAL had three groups of car with slightly different underframes. The RP CYC article is a good authority for these cars.

Bill Welch
Thanks: RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Andy Carlson
 

Thanks, Don, for the quick response. This is very helpful.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "'Don Burn' burn@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 5:48 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

 
Andy,

RPC 18 is the reference for this. L&N and B&M were the biggest XM1 users, with A&WP, BAR, CGW, CRI&P, Georgia, GF&A, M&StL, SAL, SP, WA&G and WRofA all having some.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:26 AM
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Hello-
Recent conversations with an online friend has focused on the '27 ARA design SS box car. Besides the BAR, what other railroad had cars of this design? Were there any RR users with very similar designs? I am appreciative in advance, thanks.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Re: RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Eric Hansmann
 

I was under the impression the ARA XM-1 box car was an alternate design to
the 1923 ARA proposed standard steel sheathed box car. I know the L&N
received a few thousand of these cars in 1924.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:45 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Andy,

RPC 18 is the reference for this. L&N and B&M were the biggest XM1
users, with A&WP, BAR, CGW, CRI&P, Georgia, GF&A, M&StL, SAL, SP, WA&G and
WRofA all having some.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:26 AM
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car



Hello-
Recent conversations with an online friend has focused on the '27 ARA design
SS box car. Besides the BAR, what other railroad had cars of this design?
Were there any RR users with very similar designs? I am appreciative in
advance, thanks.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA







------------------------------------
Posted by: "Don Burn" <burn@windrvr.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links
Re: NP LETTERING ??

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks Ed for the info! and Brian and Lester for the photos. I knew I could
induce you guys to send me photos! :-) :-D

I should have looked more carefully at all sides in builder photos. I now see
earlier photos with the A and B on the sides next to the doors, as well as the
end (A) and (B) stencils!

In a builder view of NP 5999, a 50 foot car built in 1926 by Standard Steel Car,
there is both the (B) symbol on the brake end of the car AND a much larger Roman
"C" next to the lumber door!

Now I realize the "A" and "B" were DOOR designations, whereas the later R and L
stencils serve both as door and side designations, while the END stencils of (A)
and (B) remained throughout. To confirm this idea, perhaps someone has a builder
photo of the end of an NP stock car with a "C" next to the lumber door as well
as the end designation stencil?

Tim O'Connor






Tim,

Just passing along some info regarding this topic for your information.

I have the following builder photos showing letters �A� or �B� to the left of the door
latch. �A� appears when the left side is shown and �B� when the right is shown.

10�-0� IH 1937 AAR

15108, P-S new 4-40, A on left side
15634, ACF, new 3-40, A on left side
16264, ACF, new 5-41, A on left side
17177, Pullman-Standard, new 5-41, A on left side

10�-6� IH 1937 AAR Modified

27588, P-S, new 4-41, B on right side
26184, ACF, new 12-41, B on left side (appears to be an error as the left side should have A)

The following cars built from 1944 to 1948 changed to L and R.

10�-6� emergency
28023, P-S, new 6-44, R on right side
28874, PSC, new 6-44, L on left side

10�-6� postwar AAR (4-4 IDN ends)
25964, NP-Brainerd, new 2-48, R on right side
29168, P-S, new 8-45, L on left side
29756, ACF, new 2-46, L on left side

Thus, the NP box cars built 1944 & later, plus 1944 & later repaints of earlier cars, used L and R.

Ed
Re: RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Don Burn
 

Andy,

RPC 18 is the reference for this. L&N and B&M were the biggest XM1 users, with A&WP, BAR, CGW, CRI&P, Georgia, GF&A, M&StL, SAL, SP, WA&G and WRofA all having some.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:26 AM
To: STMFC YahooGroup <stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car



Hello-
Recent conversations with an online friend has focused on the '27 ARA design SS box car. Besides the BAR, what other railroad had cars of this design? Were there any RR users with very similar designs? I am appreciative in advance, thanks.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
RR users of the 1927 ARA design box car

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-
Recent conversations with an online friend has focused on the '27 ARA design SS box car. Besides the BAR, what other railroad had cars of this design? Were there any RR users with very similar designs? I am appreciative in advance, thanks.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Re: Improving Atlas 1932 kits to model Erie & I-GN boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Ben, the door guides are similar. I refer you to Speedwitch's book about the AAR 1932 car for good photos of the MP's various deliveries of these cars.

Bill Welch
Re: Improving Atlas 1932 kits to model Erie & I-GN boxcars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Dear Bill

What are the door guides on the MP version of the 1932 ARA car like?  I assume rather different to the 1937 AAR car?  I'm cutting up a Gold Coast TT car as it struck me for the first time yesterday how similar the 1932 and 1937 sides are (aside from the YSD door which would need alll the ribs respaced, I think.) 

Regards, 

Ben Scanlon
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