Date   

Re: Tool maintenance

Jim Betz
 

Schuyler,

  You've gotten some good recommendations for prevention - various
light oils all work well.  Put a small amount of some in a soft cloth
(I use cotton) and wipe it across the surface of the tool - if you can
see any look of "wetness" it was enough ... you do not need enough
that the tool feels oily and transfers oil to your fingers when you
handle it (wipe off the excess!).

                                                  ****

  But ... I didn't see any one ask this question ...

  If I understand correctly you had some tools that - in just a couple of
weeks got rusty.  And that these are tools that you've been using for a
long time and regularly and that they don't get rusty.

  ===> You should be asking your self "what was different for that
            two weeks?".

  Two weeks is not a lot of time and normal moisture should not
normally attack a tool in that amount of time.  Is it possible that
you had some sort of corrosive in the air (and near your workbench)
- such as an open bottle of paint thinner, or any other 'acid' (not an
actual acid as much as anything that might have accelerated the
rust rate).  Some of the products that are in that category would
be ACC, vinegar, any paint thinner, etc.  Products that I would not
expect to cause a tool to corrode would be acrylic paints (nor
most thinner based paints but just due to the amount of thinner
in them), white glue (or KK), etc.  One product that I don't know
which category it would fall into would be styrene glues such as
Tenax, etc.  Although 'just' water in a container would create
a certain amount of humidity ... I wouldn't expect that to cause
a problem (and I often have a plastic cup of water on my bench
that dries out due to time and temperature.  Similarly - I would
not be quick to point the finger at ACC ... simply because it is
so highly volatile that I can't imagine it affecting any tools on
the bench even if it was right next to the tools.

  Was there something that when you got back to your bench
that had dried out?
                             - Jim B.


Re: Tool maintenance

frograbbit602
 

Schuyler I have used WD-40 to remove the rust as I have found it to work as well as products specifically for designed for this task.  Once rust is removed I apply Sandaro Top Cote which is a tool surface sealant that repels dirt and moisture and stops rust.  I purchase it at my Rockler wood working store.
Lester Breuer



Re: Tool maintenance

proto48er
 

Schuyler - I have been happy for many years with Starrett M-1 lubricant for prevention of rust on calipers, parallels, rules, and other tooling.   In addition to being a lubricant, it also has a component that inhibits rust.  The lubricant portion is comprised of hydrotreated light petroleum distillates which evaporate shortly after application.  An almost undetectable residual rust-inhibiting film is left on the surface.  Years ago, this film may have included whale oil!!  I have also used it on drill presses, milling machine and pantograph tables, lathe beds, bending brake tooling, shears and any other machined surface subject to rusting in my unheated garage. It is a very light oil suitable for use on precision instruments, and is not a lubricant for bearings, etc.  It can usually be obtained at a local machinery dealer - very expensive to order directly from Starrett because you have to purchase a lot of it!

A.T. Kott


Re: Spray bomb painting photos

Michael Gross
 

Agree with Tony and others who say there are both good and bad spray cans—many better than the cans of yore.  Just remember, as with an airbrush, it is recommended practice to always begin your spraying OFF the model before sweeping across the model itself.

Cheers!

Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


This is for ATSF flat car fans

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

I'm cleaning out some stuff I no longer need.

This is for ATSF flat car fans, I have the following article...

AT&SF Ft-J,O,P Flat Cars by Student PrototypeModeler Apr 1978 pg 16-18

I cut this out of the magazine for reference, but it is time for someone else to enjoy.

Great reference on this topic.

It is free, I will put it in an envelope and mail it to you for the asking.

Email me OFF LIST at

CLAUS
then the usual email separator
HELLGATEMODELS
period
COM

Thanks

Claus Schlund


Re: Tool maintenance

SUVCWORR@...
 

I use Remington Rem Oil.  It comes in small bottles, spray and wipes.  

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Mang mnmang@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Oct 8, 2017 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tool maintenance



Rich,

Do you have recommended brand? I use CLP for some applications, but I don't believe it has Teflon.

Michael Mang

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 7:12 PM SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

use gun oil with Teflon    lubricates, drives out moisture removes oil from fingers and adds protective coating

Rich Orr




-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 8, 2017 6:28 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tool maintenance


Schuyler Larrabee asks, "What’s the best way to protect these tools from rust?"

WD-40. "Drives out moisture."
Wipe/spray a wet layer and allow to evaporate.


HTH,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA




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Re: 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

Schleigh Mike
 

I will look more for that sketch.  Give me a little time.

Regards----Mike Schleigh



From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

 

Unfortunately I can only find this modern, simplified herald online.
Maybe Mike Schleigh made an accurate enough sketch to get art started?
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/22900459.jpg

Tim O'Connor


I am pretty sure if someone gives Sharon the artwork for the LT she would
do it and add it to the kit.

Bill Welch



Re: 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

Tim O'Connor
 


Unfortunately I can only find this modern, simplified herald online.
Maybe Mike Schleigh made an accurate enough sketch to get art started?
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/22900459.jpg

Tim O'Connor


I am pretty sure if someone gives Sharon the artwork for the LT she would
do it and add it to the kit.

Bill Welch


Re: 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

Douglas Harding
 

Bill I sent a hi rez scan of the Jim Sands photo to F&C.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

Bill Welch
 

I am pretty sure if someone gives Sharon the artwork for the LT she would do it and add it to the kit.

Bill Welch


Layout Duckunders

Eric Hansmann
 

Nelson Moyer returns to the Resin Car Works blog with tips on building duckunders for his model railroad. We know we should avoid duckunders but sometimes they are needed for a layout design to keep freight cars moving to the next town. Check out Nelson's work!

http://blog.resincarworks.com/layout-design-with-nelson-moyer-part-7/


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Back in the late 1960s, when I was a co-op student employee with the Pfaudler Co. in Rochester, NY, one of these Lake Terminal cars showed up with a load of steel pressure vessel heads for construction of those famous glass-lined steel tanks.  The car's stenciling was so interesting that I sketched it, including that neat herald.  I looked for it in my old files but have not found it yet.  I immediately recognized the prototype in the F&C kit but also am disappointed that the herald was not part of the LT set.  Big, bill-board lettering is impressive though.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in wet western (Grove City) Penna.



From: "Westpointroute westpointroute@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1 Percent: now Steel Companies Mill Gon

 
 The question is, does F&C offer LT decals? No way to fake that herald in Jim Sands' photo.

F&C offers a LT scheme, but it does not contain the herald you are seeking, Tim.


Justin May



Re: Tool maintenance

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks for the reply, Jack,



I was thinking about “why now?” IT’s not like I’ve never seen ANY rusting on tools, but most of those have been in the basement, which I think of as dry, but evidence in the form of rust on my carpentry tools suggests otherwise.


I model in a back porch, or that’s what it looks like, but I think it was built this way. It’s always been enclosed, but has windows on three sides, as well as the door to the back yard. Humidity hasn’t been a major issue, but perhaps the sequence of hurricane left-overs we’ve been served here in New England these last couple of months have made things worse. My place isn’t air-conditioned, but this summer’s also been fairly cool, so I haven’t run the window units as much as normally required here. Consequence: higher than usual humidity in the house.



Most summers the AC is required to sleep well at night, so the house has been dryer than this summer.



Having recalled the advice of the Smithsonian guy, I think I am inclined to go with the Butcher’s Wax, after cleaning with WD-40. And then keep them (to the extent I can make myself do it – dubious) in a box with desiccant. Yeah, right.



The gun oil with Teflon does sound interesting though.



Just checked. Right now, humidity in the house is ~78%. I think >I< am rusting!



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 10:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tool maintenance





Schuyler,

I feel your pain. My other active hobby is woodworking, so I fight the rust war on two fronts. Over the years, under various conditions such as seasonally damp basements and unheated garage/shops.



Others have suggested various protective coatings, but the first line of defense is controlling humidity, where possible. I've seen 45% mentioned as a magic number, but any reduction from high humidity will help. Keeping temperature as stable as possible is important too. Putting tools away is a big help, generally the microclimate in a tool box or drawer is better than the surrounding environment. No, I'm not good at doing that either, except with micrometers, calipers, etc.



It sounds like you haven't had problems in the past, so maybe your normal environment is pretty good. Did anything unusual, except disuse, happen over the week? Were the rusted surfaces in contact with t he desktop, something else on it, or exposed to the air?



For the second line of defense, I've used light machine oil like 3-in-1, or 10W-40 or other penetrating oil, or paste wax. I lean toward wax mostly because in my mind it's less of a nuisance if it rubs off on my fingers and the workpiece. Irrational bias, maybe. Our dog hates the smell of 10W-40, and will notice it on my hands for a couple days after I apply it, no matter how much I wash, and for hours after I've used a tool treated with it.



Any of these will wear off with handling and need to be reapplied periodically, depending on usage.I think doing that is probably more important than which material you use.





Jack Mullen


Re: Tool maintenance

Jack Mullen
 

Schuller,
I feel your pain. My other active hobby is woodworking, so I fight the rust war on two fronts. Over the years, under various conditions such as  seasonally damp basements and unheated garage/shops.

Others have suggested various protective coatings, but the first line of defense is controlling humidity, where possible. I've seen 45% mentioned as a magic number, but any reduction from high humidity will help. Keeping temperature as stable as possible is important too.  Putting tools away is a big help, generally the microclimate in a tool box or drawer is better than the surrounding environment. No, I'm not good at doing that either, except with micrometers, calipers, etc.

 It sounds like you haven't had problems in the past, so maybe your normal environment is pretty good. Did anything unusual, except disuse, happen over the week?  Were the rusted surfaces in contact with the desktop, something else on it, or exposed to the air?

For the second line of defense, I've used light machine oil like 3-in-1, or 10W-40 or other penetrating oil, or paste wax. I lean toward wax mostly because in my mind it's less of a nuisance if it rubs off on my fingers and the workpiece. Irrational bias, maybe. Our dog hates the smell of 10W-40, and will notice it on my hands for a couple days after I apply it, no matter how much I wash,  and for hours after I've used a tool treated with it. 

Any of these will wear off with handling and need to be reapplied periodically, depending on usage.I think doing that is probably more important than which material you use. 

Jack Mullen
 


Re: Spray bomb painting photos

Bruce Smith
 

​And I will add that I have used this particular paint many times with success and really like the way it both sprays and levels out when it goes on.


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 8:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Spray bomb painting photos
 


Bruce Smith wrote:

 
A few months back, we had a conversation about painting and some of y'all indicated that you wouldn't paint with a spray can (aka "bomb").  I have uploaded 3 photos of my latest project, an LCVP loaded on a ACL flat car.  These will be available as soon as the moderators approve them.  The car was painted with a can of Model Master Acryl flat black.

          I think it's important that we recognize differences in spray cans. The cheap ones, or cheaply-made ones which aren't cheap to buy, such as the Testors products, are quite prone to spitting out a "blort" of paint at just the worst time. Better made spray cans, such as Tamiya, don't do that and have a finer spray cone. 
           I have no problem spraying a model with a GOOD spray can, while I wouldn't think of doing so with a crummy one. I have no doubt that Bruce understands this perfectly.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Tool maintenance

Michael Mang
 

Rich,

Do you have recommended brand? I use CLP for some applications, but I don't believe it has Teflon.

Michael Mang


On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 7:12 PM SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

use gun oil with Teflon    lubricates, drives out moisture removes oil from fingers and adds protective coating

Rich Orr




-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 8, 2017 6:28 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tool maintenance


Schuyler Larrabee asks, "What’s the best way to protect these tools from rust?"

WD-40. "Drives out moisture."
Wipe/spray a wet layer and allow to evaporate.


HTH,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA




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Re: Spray bomb painting photos

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

 
A few months back, we had a conversation about painting and some of y'all indicated that you wouldn't paint with a spray can (aka "bomb").  I have uploaded 3 photos of my latest project, an LCVP loaded on a ACL flat car.  These will be available as soon as the moderators approve them.  The car was painted with a can of Model Master Acryl flat black.

          I think it's important that we recognize differences in spray cans. The cheap ones, or cheaply-made ones which aren't cheap to buy, such as the Testors products, are quite prone to spitting out a "blort" of paint at just the worst time. Better made spray cans, such as Tamiya, don't do that and have a finer spray cone. 
           I have no problem spraying a model with a GOOD spray can, while I wouldn't think of doing so with a crummy one. I have no doubt that Bruce understands this perfectly.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Spray bomb painting photos

Bruce Smith
 

​Folks,


A few months back, we had a conversation about painting and some of y'all indicated that you wouldn't paint with a spray can (aka "bomb").  I have uploaded 3 photos of my latest project, an LCVP loaded on a ACL flat car.  These will be available as soon as the moderators approve them.  The car was painted with a can of Model Master Acryl flat black.


Regards

Bruce 

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


Re: Tool maintenance

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Schuyler,

I keep rust off my arrow points by wiping them regularly with a very light coating of  Weiman’s furniture oil applied on a paper towel.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On Oct 8, 2017, at 5:04 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hi all,

 

In the course of building Steam Era Freight Car Models (got that over with) I have used a variety of metal tools, many of them steel.  One of them is a treasured (inherited from my grandfather) Brown & Sharpe 4” adjustable square, along the lines of what some would call a carpenter’s square.  It’s been on my desk for a week or so without being used (which is unusual – I’ve been away) and the other night I picked it up and turned it over to find that the underside of the rule was rusty.  Aaaagh!

 

And I just picked up my sprue nippers (good ones, Utica Swiss) and they too are rusty at the snipping end.

 

Now I was able to clean up the square with 2000-grit sandpaper but the nippers are more complicated to do (and sharp, by the way!), but I can probably get them cleaned up.  They still cut just fine . . . so far . . . but I’m concerned that if this keeps up they’ll lose some of that edge.

 

What’s the best way to protect these tools from rust?

 

I will begin keeping them in a box with desiccant, but that’s cumbersome and likely to be forgotten in the late evenings when I give in to the need for sleep.

 

Better methods?

 

Schuyler

 




Re: Tool maintenance

SUVCWORR@...
 

use gun oil with Teflon    lubricates, drives out moisture removes oil from fingers and adds protective coating

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Oct 8, 2017 6:28 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tool maintenance


Schuyler Larrabee asks, "What’s the best way to protect these tools from rust?"

WD-40. "Drives out moisture."
Wipe/spray a wet layer and allow to evaporate.


HTH,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA




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