Date   

Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Bill Welch
 

As used on the Erie's 1932 ARA cars this vertical handbrake is called the "C&O Geared Type" according to photo-caption on page 138 of Speedwitch's 1932 book. I am working on a Resin Car Works Blog entry modeling this item and other "B" end detailson the Atlas 1932 kit I am building. It will probably appear in the next couple of weeks.

Bill Welch


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Bruce Smith
 

Tony,

That’s what I get for trying to be inclusive ;)  Nope, no evidence.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 30, 2017, at 3:22 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Bruce Smith wrote:

In part I based this on post #135723 by Elden Gatwood, as well as repeated references by others over the years on this list that ARA class II/ICC class 102  . . .


      Bruce, I've never seen any indication that the ICC takeover of the former ARA tank car standards included a class called "ICC 102." Do you have documentation on that? You are of course correct that if they HAD done so, they would have called ARA Class II by the name ICC 102.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history









Re: [Proto-Layouts] St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference

David Jobe, Sr.
 

John,

 

Try http://dl.mospace.umsystem.edu/mu/islandora/object/mu%3A138690 ..  What part of St. Louis are you interested in?

 

David Jobe, Sr.

Saint Ann, Missouri

 

From: Proto-Layouts@... [mailto:Proto-Layouts@...]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 10:55 AM
To: Yahoogroups; Yahoogroups
Subject: [Proto-Layouts] St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference

 




Hi Guys,

 

Does anyone have a link to Sanborn Maps for St. Louis?  I have found a bunch of sites online that do not have compete sets, or restricted access.  Thanks in advance for the help.

 

John Golden
Albersbach, Germany





Re: The UTLX X tankers

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

In part I based this on post #135723 by Elden Gatwood, as well as repeated references by others over the years on this list that ARA class II/ICC class 102  . . .


      Bruce, I've never seen any indication that the ICC takeover of the former ARA tank car standards included a class called "ICC 102." Do you have documentation on that? You are of course correct that if they HAD done so, they would have called ARA Class II by the name ICC 102.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference

Paul Krueger
 

Seattle Public Library subscribes to the same or similar service, which requires a library card to access. I suspect other libraries do also.

I'm not sure the collection is 'complete', but it does offer numerous towns from all the states that have Sanborn maps.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Steve and Barb Hile
 

UTLX did add 2000 6.5K gallon X-3 tank cars built by ACF in 1936, the first new 6.5K gallon cars since 1916-17.
 
Steve Hile



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 12:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] The UTLX X tankers

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is that in 1953/54 UTLX lost all their 6500 gal type V tankcars that they were disinclined to upgrade to AB brakes. It seems to me that these small ca[pacity cars were most useful in the bulk oil distributor market, where small dealers were inclined to order small quantities. I wonder if it was apparent at this time that the small dealer business was shrinking, making Union Tank Line less than interested in buying new small capacity cars.


Dennis Storzek


Re: St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference

William Hirt
 

John,

The Mid-Continent Public Library (Kansas City area - Missouri side) offers access to the complete collection of black and white Sanborn maps for the U.S.

If you are not a resident of the district, you must apply in person for a card and pay a yearly fee based on their FAQ. They also limit card issuance to U.S. addresses. I do not know if they have special rules for military members out of country.

Their web site is and you could contact someone at the library system to get more information.

Bill Hirt


On 10/30/2017 10:55 AM, John Golden golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:
Hi Guys,

Does anyone have a link to Sanborn Maps for St. Louis?  I have found a bunch of sites online that do not have compete sets, or restricted access.  Thanks in advance for the help.
 
John Golden
Albersbach, Germany


Re: Heritage of this NYS&W car?

StephenK
 

You have a good memory.   I checked my 1991 Walther's Decal "Update" catalog and there it is.   The description says "dark green car, yellow," The car could have faded to the bluish shown on the photo, but the lettering sure looks white to me.    Of course, no Walther's decals are in stock at Walther's any more, but they do show up on EBay

Maybe this will be a long term project.....

Steve Kay


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Dennis Storzek
 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is that in 1953/54 UTLX lost all their 6500 gal type V tankcars that they were disinclined to upgrade to AB brakes. It seems to me that these small ca[pacity cars were most useful in the bulk oil distributor market, where small dealers were inclined to order small quantities. I wonder if it was apparent at this time that the small dealer business was shrinking, making Union Tank Line less than interested in buying new small capacity cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Tichy Decals (Was Re: Decal Adhesive)

Ken Roth
 

I purchased some Tichy decals this summer, one set of which I have used.  I too was disappointed with the thickness of the lettering.  The set I used was for a "brand new paint job" DL&W boxcar which received only the slightest weathering and it worked out "okay".  I compared an SP Tank Car set from Jerry Glow which I had purchased several years ago with a newly purchased Tichy version of the same set and the new version is no where near as nice as the old set.  I experimented with lightly sanding the Tichy set with #600 wet/dry sandpaper which does reduce the thickness to a more reasonable level, but I haven't yet tried applying them to a model (they may fall apart).  Hopefully Tichy will be able to correct this problem in future printings, since there are several nice offerings not available elsewhere.

Ken Roth


St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference

golden1014
 

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have a link to Sanborn Maps for St. Louis?  I have found a bunch of sites online that do not have compete sets, or restricted access.  Thanks in advance for the help.
 
John Golden
Albersbach, Germany


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Dave Parker
 

Bruce:

We can agree that the ARA Spec II cars were restricted from carrying certain cargoes, but I remain unconvinced that the more common refinery products (gasoline, kerosene, naptha) would necessarily be on that list. 

There were a number of criteria in the 1938 ICC regs:  safety valves, manway construction, and "outage" (i.e., dome volume).  If these could me met, inflammables such as gasoline could be legally carried.  BTW, the UTLX Class X cars had dome volumes ranging from 2.3 to 3.4% of the tank volume as built, making many of them particularly suitable for inflammables.

I revisited the 125723 post, and did not see anything that contradicts the above.  I did note some language concerning war emergency standards, about which I know nothing.  It appears, however, that they were more lenient than the pre-war ICC regs, and might be of some relevance to your 1944 modeling year.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

 


On Monday, October 30, 2017 7:26 AM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Dave,

In part I based this on post #135723 by Elden Gatwood, as well as repeated references by others over the years on this list that ARA class II/ICC class 102 were restricted because of their construction from carrying certain cargos.  My point would be that the major use of tank cars post WWII was for refined petroleum products and thus the utility of a class II car would be reduced, and if you modeled one or more of these cars (as I certainly intend to do for my 1944 timeframe) then they need to be in the correct service (in my case, it’s no issue as I will have solid trains of crude oil).  

Ultimately, the question comes down to how many of these cars does a modeler need in any given era.  


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:27 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Bruce:

Do you have a reference? 

Both gasoline and kerosene are clearly allowed in Spec II cars in the 1920 ARA Specification for Tank Cars.

Many "inflammable" liquids were still permitted in Spec II cars in the 1938 ICC regs (CFR Title 49) as long as they met the pressure requirements and did not have anchored tank heads (an obsolete construction method largely gone by the teens).  Regardless, kerosene was not considered an "inflammable" at that time based on the table of such commodities in the ICC regs.

Neither Spec II or Spec III cars could be used for liquids with very high vapor pressures, although these regs were complicated because they could vary seasonally (because of temperature effects on tank pressure).  Casinghead gasoline is a good example I believe.

If things changed later on, I am not aware of it.  The 1949 version of the Title 49 regs is available on-line, but I have to confess I have not taken the time to slog through them (916 pages in all).  

Even if the use of Spec II cars for things like gasoline eventually became restricted, that would not have diminished their utility.  As Steve described, many of the surviving Class X cars in the 1955 tariff book had been retrofitted with heater coils; very useful for the more viscous commodities.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



Re: Loading & Unloading Lumber

ron christensen
 

I would like to get in touch with Sid off line about lumber.
This seems to be a good addition to the CNWHS Modeler story on lumber yards
Ron Christensen


Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Rob M.
 

HI Bruce,

That was where I was going with this.  It isn't the "orientation" of the brake gear but whether it is a power brake with some type of force multiplier which makes roll-outs much more unlikely.  

I have OMS (old man's syndrome) but I could have sworn that somewhere I saw guidelines once for the replacement of stem winders with power hand brakes.

Can't recall it though!


Rob Mondichak.  


Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Eric Hansmann
 

Rob,
 
It is my understanding that there was no ARA/AAR/ICC ruling or mandate to ban or upgrade the vertical shaft hand brake wheel hardware on freight cars.
 
There was a January 1, 1937 requirement for geared handbrakes on all newly-built or newly-rebuilt cars. But many of these vertical staff hand brakes have gearing at the bottom of the shaft that met this requirement.
 
This item and many other details can be found on the AAR Interchange Dates documents in teh STMFC Files section through the YahooGroup portal.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
 



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 9:19 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

I guess the question is, was there an ARA/AAR rule change that mandated power hand brakes and when was it made effective for cars built new or cars that were rebuilt of shopped for repairs?

I would think this would be one of the factors determining factor for hand brake usage.

Can't seem to find the answer googling and I can't recall it from any discussion or from Car Builders Cycs.



Rob Mondichak 


Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Bruce Smith
 

Rob,

“Power hand brake” does not require that it be a horizontal shaft handbrake. ;)  There were vertical shaft power handbrakes.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 30, 2017, at 9:18 AM, rule292@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I guess the question is, was there an ARA/AAR rule change that mandated power hand brakes and when was it made effective for cars built new or cars that were rebuilt of shopped for repairs?

I would think this would be one of the factors determining factor for hand brake usage.

Can't seem to find the answer googling and I can't recall it from any discussion or from Car Builders Cycs. 



Rob Mondichak  



Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Dennis Storzek
 

Looking at that table, it appears that Soo Line 41800-42798 and 135800-135998, both series built 10-36, may be the last cars so equipped. These 1932 AAR cars equipped with vertical brake staffs do not lack "high power" hand brakes; there is a set of reduction gears at the bottom of the brake staff that make them equal to other high power hand brakes, except I'm sure it took longer to "spin up" the slack in the brake rigging to get to the point of useful braking power than with the other high power gears.

Dennis Storzek 


Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?

Rob M.
 

I guess the question is, was there an ARA/AAR rule change that mandated power hand brakes and when was it made effective for cars built new or cars that were rebuilt of shopped for repairs?

I would think this would be one of the factors determining factor for hand brake usage.

Can't seem to find the answer googling and I can't recall it from any discussion or from Car Builders Cycs.



Rob Mondichak 


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Bruce Smith
 

Dave,

In part I based this on post #135723 by Elden Gatwood, as well as repeated references by others over the years on this list that ARA class II/ICC class 102 were restricted because of their construction from carrying certain cargos.  My point would be that the major use of tank cars post WWII was for refined petroleum products and thus the utility of a class II car would be reduced, and if you modeled one or more of these cars (as I certainly intend to do for my 1944 timeframe) then they need to be in the correct service (in my case, it’s no issue as I will have solid trains of crude oil).  

Ultimately, the question comes down to how many of these cars does a modeler need in any given era.  


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:27 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Bruce:

Do you have a reference? 

Both gasoline and kerosene are clearly allowed in Spec II cars in the 1920 ARA Specification for Tank Cars.

Many "inflammable" liquids were still permitted in Spec II cars in the 1938 ICC regs (CFR Title 49) as long as they met the pressure requirements and did not have anchored tank heads (an obsolete construction method largely gone by the teens).  Regardless, kerosene was not considered an "inflammable" at that time based on the table of such commodities in the ICC regs.

Neither Spec II or Spec III cars could be used for liquids with very high vapor pressures, although these regs were complicated because they could vary seasonally (because of temperature effects on tank pressure).  Casinghead gasoline is a good example I believe.

If things changed later on, I am not aware of it.  The 1949 version of the Title 49 regs is available on-line, but I have to confess I have not taken the time to slog through them (916 pages in all).  

Even if the use of Spec II cars for things like gasoline eventually became restricted, that would not have diminished their utility.  As Steve described, many of the surviving Class X cars in the 1955 tariff book had been retrofitted with heater coils; very useful for the more viscous commodities.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Tichy Decals (Was Re: Decal Adhesive)

anthony wagner
 

I agree with everything in your post. Do it myself. Decaling is not a "one and done" operation. Modlers have to teach themselves how to do it. There are no short cuts and one has to take ones time to do it correctly. Tony Wagner


On Monday, October 30, 2017 12:19 AM, "'John Hagen' sprinthag@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I have used Tichy decals and use them for printing some of my OBS-CALS decals using my artwork.
Yeah, they do sorta resemble Braille on the sheet but they install nice and look good after setting and over coating. Weathering also helps.
But then most of what I’ve had them print were O or S scale sets. I have heard some HO or N scale user’s gripe a bit. I tried some on an HO ore car and they looked good.
I like them as they are very high resolution and opaque.
They apply like any other decals such as Microscale.
On the adhesive front, I can’t understand the reason for adding any adhesive. If the adhesive doesn’t work just use a setting solution. There are those who purposely dissolve off all the adhesive so there isn’t any to clean off. Then they apply some Microsoft “Micro Set,” (Blue Lettering) which is mild setting solution to the carside before dropping the adhesive less decal on it. It is possible to push the decal into place when doing this. After it has set apply some Microscale “Micro Sol” (red lettering) or Walthers Solvaset to set any spots that still need work.
But many model car guys don’t use setting solutions. Maybe some airplane and boat builders also. The only thing I may use besides setting solution is Microscale “liquid Decal Film” on real old or freshly printed decals to help prevent any flaking.
John Hagen
OBS-CALS your source for Obscure Decals
 

 

 

>Re: Decal Adhesive

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:23 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

lbsingletary

I recently received one of the Tichy decals for a steam era box car. The ink has a texture to it like you see on business cards.
Have any of you seen this and have tried to apply it? If so what was the result?
TIA

Lee

Lee Singletary
L&NHS
Alabaster, Alabama

 
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