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Re: Livestock Car: NP 81280
Todd Sullivan
Hi Brad,
Sorry to disagree with you. The radial roof and placement of the letter boards at the top of the sides give this away as an NP design. The Mather cars had the initial and number in the more usual place on the left end of the sides and the roof was Mather's own design and not radial. Todd Sullivan
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Re: Livestock Car: NP 81280
Benjamin Hom
Brad Andonian wrote: "The NP car is a Mather built stock car." http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4193725 I recommend you reconsider your assessment. This is absolutely not a Mather stock cr. Ben Hom
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Re: Livestock Car: NP 81280
gary laakso
NP 81280 is an NP design, see the arch roof. It is not a Mather stockcar, which NP did lease. Gary Laakso Northwest of Mike Brock
On Oct 30, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Brad Andonian cereshill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Livestock Car: NP 81280
Todd Sullivan
Hi Bob,
These NP wood stock cars lasted a long time after livestock movements generally ceased. In the 1970s, the NP and then BN used the NP them for hauling ties for roadbed improvement projects. I photographed quite a few of them on my trips West in 1974 and 1977. The car is essentially the Central Valley model, except that CV made the car a bit wider than the prototype. If that bothers anyone interested in building one, the NP Society has resin ends (the hardest part to narrow) for sale, and I believe the rest is done by narrowing the roof at the center and the floor on the long edges. Notice that the prototype in the photo you found has had its ladders shortened and some extra grabs added to the ends. Todd Sullivan
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Re: Livestock Car: NP 81280
Brad Andonian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Monday, October 30, 2017, 5:45 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: LNE Billboard Lettering
John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
And judging by the number, the car was is nonrevenue service. L&NE Ry. 351 was a blocking car, and L&NE 353 was a snowplow.
John C, La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL
-----Original Message----- From: williamdale75@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Sun, Oct 29, 2017 6:29 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: LNE Billboard Lettering Group,
The USRA boxcar 352, is of CNJ heritage. This car came on board after the L&NE ceased operations October 1961, when the Lehigh & New England Railway was formed, hence the CNJ USRA box. The taller SS car in question (7001-7200) were originally built in 1916 by Pressed Steel as class GM gondolas (10001-10200), were converted to boxcars to handle bagged cement circa 1925. The only rib side hoppers were another grouping of pre USRA two bays, coming from Cambria, Pressed Steel, Lehigh Coal & Navigation (second hand 1913 Standard Steel). Lastly, the PS-1's were an order of 300, and eight were bought from the NYS&W, all lived a very short life span and were gone by 1960. The NYS&W cars were distinguished by the 5 panel Superior door. Bill
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Livestock Car: NP 81280
thecitrusbelt@...
Here is NP 81280 as seen in June 1973, which is fairly late in this car's life as well as the NP's livestock transportation era.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4193725
Is this car the prototype used for the Central Valley flat cast HO scale kit?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
Dave,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I did notice that the USG-A cars, which were also ARA class II, were allowed gasoline as a cargo...
Delving into this, I found “All About Tank Cars” as an Online eBook.
Published by Standard Tank Car Co in 1921, this is a massive tome (870 pages) with some amazing information. Around page 537 it discusses Class II specs and from this and other places, it appears that class II cars could be tested to a variety
of limits that would then define the commodities they could haul. So, unlike what I thought, there is no hard and fast rule for a class II car after 1917, but there is also no question that some class II cars were more restricted in what they could carry
than class III cars.
Regards Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: K-Brake Or AB-Brake?
Bill Welch
As used on the Erie's 1932 ARA cars this vertical handbrake is called the "C&O Geared Type" according to photo-caption on page 138 of Speedwitch's 1932 book. I am working on a Resin Car Works Blog entry modeling this item and other "B" end detailson the Atlas 1932 kit I am building. It will probably appear in the next couple of weeks.
Bill Welch
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
Tony,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That’s what I get for trying to be inclusive ;) Nope, no evidence.
Regards Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: [Proto-Layouts] St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference
David Jobe, Sr.
John,
Try http://dl.mospace.umsystem.edu/mu/islandora/object/mu%3A138690 .. What part of St. Louis are you interested in?
David Jobe, Sr. Saint Ann, Missouri
From: Proto-Layouts@... [mailto:Proto-Layouts@...]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 10:55 AM To: Yahoogroups; Yahoogroups Subject: [Proto-Layouts] St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference
Hi Guys,
Does anyone have a link to Sanborn Maps for St. Louis? I have found a bunch of sites online that do not have compete sets, or restricted access. Thanks in advance for the help.
John Golden
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
Tony Thompson
Bruce Smith wrote:
Bruce, I've never seen any indication that the ICC takeover of the former ARA tank car standards included a class called "ICC 102." Do you have documentation on that? You are of course correct that if they HAD done so, they would have called ARA Class II by the name ICC 102. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference
Seattle Public Library subscribes to the same or similar service, which requires a library card to access. I suspect other libraries do also.
I'm not sure the collection is 'complete', but it does offer numerous towns from all the states that have Sanborn maps. Paul Krueger Seattle, WA
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
UTLX did add 2000 6.5K gallon X-3 tank cars built by ACF in
1936, the first new 6.5K gallon cars since 1916-17.
Steve Hile
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 12:26 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] The UTLX X tankers One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is that in 1953/54 UTLX lost all their 6500 gal type V tankcars that they were disinclined to upgrade to AB brakes. It seems to me that these small ca[pacity cars were most useful in the bulk oil distributor market, where small dealers were inclined to order small quantities. I wonder if it was apparent at this time that the small dealer business was shrinking, making Union Tank Line less than interested in buying new small capacity cars. Dennis Storzek
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Re: St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference
William Hirt
John, The Mid-Continent Public Library (Kansas City area - Missouri side) offers access to the complete collection of black and white Sanborn maps for the U.S. If you are not a resident of the district, you must apply in
person for a card and pay a yearly fee based on their FAQ. They
also limit card issuance to U.S. addresses. I do not know if they
have special rules for military members out of country. Their web site is and you could contact someone at the library system to get more information. Bill Hirt
On 10/30/2017 10:55 AM, John Golden
golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: Heritage of this NYS&W car?
StephenK
You have a good memory. I checked my 1991 Walther's Decal "Update" catalog and there it is. The description says "dark green car, yellow," The car could have faded to the bluish shown on the photo, but the lettering sure looks white to me. Of course, no Walther's decals are in stock at Walther's any more, but they do show up on EBay
Maybe this will be a long term project..... Steve Kay
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
Dennis Storzek
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is that in 1953/54 UTLX lost all their 6500 gal type V tankcars that they were disinclined to upgrade to AB brakes. It seems to me that these small ca[pacity cars were most useful in the bulk oil distributor market, where small dealers were inclined to order small quantities. I wonder if it was apparent at this time that the small dealer business was shrinking, making Union Tank Line less than interested in buying new small capacity cars.
Dennis Storzek
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Re: Tichy Decals (Was Re: Decal Adhesive)
Ken Roth
I purchased some Tichy decals this summer, one set of which I have used. I too was disappointed with the thickness of the lettering. The set I used was for a "brand new paint job" DL&W boxcar which received only the slightest weathering and it worked out "okay". I compared an SP Tank Car set from Jerry Glow which I had purchased several years ago with a newly purchased Tichy version of the same set and the new version is no where near as nice as the old set. I experimented with lightly sanding the Tichy set with #600 wet/dry sandpaper which does reduce the thickness to a more reasonable level, but I haven't yet tried applying them to a model (they may fall apart). Hopefully Tichy will be able to correct this problem in future printings, since there are several nice offerings not available elsewhere.
Ken Roth
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St. Louis Sanborn Map Reference
golden1014
Hi Guys, Does anyone have a link to Sanborn Maps for St. Louis? I have found a bunch of sites online that do not have compete sets, or restricted access. Thanks in advance for the help. John Golden Albersbach, Germany
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Re: The UTLX X tankers
Dave Parker
Bruce: We can agree that the ARA Spec II cars were restricted from carrying certain cargoes, but I remain unconvinced that the more common refinery products (gasoline, kerosene, naptha) would necessarily be on that list. There were a number of criteria in the 1938 ICC regs: safety valves, manway construction, and "outage" (i.e., dome volume). If these could me met, inflammables such as gasoline could be legally carried. BTW, the UTLX Class X cars had dome volumes ranging from 2.3 to 3.4% of the tank volume as built, making many of them particularly suitable for inflammables. I revisited the 125723 post, and did not see anything that contradicts the above. I did note some language concerning war emergency standards, about which I know nothing. It appears, however, that they were more lenient than the pre-war ICC regs, and might be of some relevance to your 1944 modeling year. Dave Parker Riverside, CA
On Monday, October 30, 2017 7:26 AM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:
Dave,
In part I based this on post #135723 by Elden Gatwood, as well as repeated references by others over the years on this list that ARA class II/ICC class 102 were restricted because of their construction from carrying certain cargos. My point would
be that the major use of tank cars post WWII was for refined petroleum products and thus the utility of a class II car would be reduced, and if you modeled one or more of these cars (as I certainly intend to do for my 1944 timeframe) then they need to be in
the correct service (in my case, it’s no issue as I will have solid trains of crude oil).
Ultimately, the question comes down to how many of these cars does a modeler need in any given era.
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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