Date   

Re: Hopper Bottom Boxcar

Robert kirkham
 

Just in case it wasn’t entirely obvious to everyone, it should be noted that the car shown in the photo is not a boxcar, and not one of the cars with hopper bottoms.  This is most immediately evident by comparing the side sill in the close up of the car door and open hopper, and comparing it with the larger ¾ view shot of the autoboxcar.   The hopper bottom boxcars in question were very similar to the USRA single sheathed boxcars, though to higher weight capacity and with some minor differences in the underframe (probably associated with accommodating the hoppers.)   They were originally built as follows:

230000-230999 blt by NSC  

231000-232499 blt by CCF  

232500-232999 blt by ECC  

233000-233499 blt by CCF

And were all consolidated into the 230000-233499 series by 1923.  With re-building (mostly to remove the hoppers) starting in the 1930s and continuing into the 50s, re-numberings can also be traced. 

 

Meanwhile the auto-boxcar shown in the Popular Mechanics article was from the 500 cars in the 297000 – 297084 and 297085 – 297499 series.  These are similar to the car issued by Yarmouth, but have different ends, different underframe and different side sills.

 

Rob Kirkham  

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Hopper Bottom Boxcar

 


Here is a link to a brief photo article on a Canadian Pacific hopper bottom boxcar that appeared in the April 1921 edition of Popular Mechanics:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/hopper_bottom_boxcar.jpg

 

Did these ever catch on with railroads in the U.S.?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA





Re: Glow Decals (was Tichy decals)

Bill Welch
 

Yes but I took the photo before I had pricked holes in decals and done a final settling.

Bill Welch


Re: Decals

thmsdmpsy
 

Tony, Is this a dry transfer process or something different?  Thanks, Tom Dempsey



     Full agreement. I lettered one of the W&R gondolas (D&RGW) awhile back and it was a real fight with the lettering. I can tell you I do NOT want to do that again. Ended up fine, but during the process . . . wow.





Re: 40-foot War Emergency Gondola List

golden1014
 

Thanks Garth.  I e-mailed Ed Hawkins on another topic and he beat me all up about it.  I deserved it, as I should have the RP Cyc bibliography memorized by now.
The article answered all my questions.  Southern, Wabash, T&NO, and ACL were major buyers, plus the article has important drawings.
John Golden
Albersbach, Germany


Re: Decals

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Pardie wrote:
"He showed me some examples of his latest E Unit project.  A process called "reverse printing" was used for the numbers in the number boards (the buyer could customize the engine for a specific train). A rather famous detailer of "O" scale engines uses this process which he prints up himself.  W&R Enterprises used this process on their Rio Grande gondola process years ago.

With this process only the lettering is transferred to the model (no decal film).  I don't know how this works over rivets but will try to find out.  Seems like a real time saver in trimming the decals and hiding the surrounding film.

Is anyone familiar with this process?"

Ben Hom replied:

Not a fan of it.  Numbered a brass LIRR cabin car using this system and had a very rough time.  Not having to deal with decal film is a plus and the lettering looks good once you get it on the model; however, the lettering is extremely fragile and great care must be taken while positioning the lettering or it will fall apart.  The cabin car in question went through three different numbers before I got satisfactory results, even though I was lettring over a smooth surface with no raised detail..

This would be far from my first choice for lettering any model.


Ben Hom

     Full agreement. I lettered one of the W&R gondolas (D&RGW) awhile back and it was a real fight with the lettering. I can tell you I do NOT want to do that again. Ended up fine, but during the process . . . wow.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

The method was described to me (over the phone) by Al Ichelson of
Challenger Imports some years ago, and was used by Samhongsa and other
brass builders. I'd love to see how it is done because you're right the
lettering is applied directly and there is no film at all. It does produce
very slightly raised lettering - think "embossed" - but it also conforms to
rivets perfectly well. I've never tried to remove it (i.e. to change a car
number)
but that might be trickier than with decals.

Tim O'Connor




On my way hom e from Chicagoland
I stopped in the Bay Area and visited a friend wbo is a brass importer.  He showed me some examples of his latest E Unit project.  A process callrd "reverse printing" was used for the numbers in the number boards (the buyer could customize the engine for a specific train). A rather famous detailer of "O" scale engines uses this process which he prints up himself.  W&R Enerprises used this pricess on their Rio Grande gondola process years ago.

With this process only the lettering is transfered to the model (no decal film). I don't know how this works over rivets but will try to find out.  Seems like a real time saver in trimming the decals and hiding the surrounding film.

Is anyone familiar with this process?

Bill Pardie


Re: Decals

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie wrote:
"He showed me some examples of his latest E Unit project.  A process called "reverse printing" was used for the numbers in the number boards (the buyer could customize the engine for a specific train). A rather famous detailer of "O" scale engines uses this process which he prints up himself.  W&R Enterprises used this process on their Rio Grande gondola process years ago.

With this process only the lettering is transferred to the model (no decal film).  I don't know how this works over rivets but will try to find out.  Seems like a real time saver in trimming the decals and hiding the surrounding film.

Is anyone familiar with this process?"

Not a fan of it.  Numbered a brass LIRR cabin car using this system and had a very rough time.  Not having to deal with decal film is a plus and the lettering looks good once you get it on the model; however, the lettering is extremely fragile and great care must be taken while positioning the lettering or it will fall apart.  The cabin car in question went through three different numbers before I got satisfactory results, even though I was lettring over a smooth surface with no raised detail..

This would be far from my first choice for lettering any model.


Ben Hom


Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

Fred Jansz
 

Group, I've used a J. Glow decal set and there was nothing wrong with it. It's the Tichy decals that hurt me. The film is OK, it disappears after few shots of Methoxy-Propanol (Solvaset, Microsol) however, the ink on it is way too thick. In my situation (a DLW car and two PFE reefers) it was so thick it resembled plastic 3D letters in HO. And after the decal film dissolves, the thick white or black ink etches itself into the freshly painted surface. Try to remove the decal from a plastic model and the coat of paint on the car will go, but the decal's paint is very stubborn, it won't let go (or my brake fluid is non aggressive...).
I have never experienced any problems with (in some cases decades old) Champ, Sunshine, Microscale, F&C and Speedwitch decals to name a few. The only decals giving the same problems due to thickness of ink used were some Walthers decal from the 1960's.
Fred Jansz


Re: Glow Decals (was Tichy decals)

pennsylvania1954
 

Over the life span of Jerry Glow's decal business, he used at least two different printing providers. He did no printing himself. I seem to remember that one he was happy with had a fire which precluded his use. I recall a gap in availability of his decals while he obtained a new supplier.

A later supplier he used printed on a heavy (to us) film which was troublesome. After getting it starting to conform to model details, you had to press down on it with a warm cloth, then apply our normal decal solutions. I finished an IM boxcar in EJ&E green with Jerry's orange Around Chicago set. It was a pain applying the decals, but eventually they stopped fighting and settled in.

I have no way of knowing with certainty, but I suspect printing issues were a main cause of his disappointing performance at the end.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Hopper Bottom Boxcar

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob and Ben,

Well, they certainly didn't "catch on", but there were more examples around than just the GN and CP examples. Even the Northern Electric Railway (later the Sacramento Northern) had a few: http://www.wplives.org/sn/nebox.html .

There was also a craze for hopper-bottomed stock cars to also carry coal or coke, and an ATSF example is shown in illustrations 184-185 in the 1919 CAR BUILDER'S DICTIONARY. This is reproduced in Gregg's TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 36.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/1/17 1:30 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
Bob Chaparro asked:
"Here is a link to a brief photo article on a Canadian Pacific hopper bottom boxcar that appeared in the April 1921 edition of Popular Mechanics:
 
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/hopper_bottom_boxcar.jpg
 
Did these ever catch on with railroads in the U.S.?"

No, though this approach was used by GN and successor BN to increase the efficiency and utilization of boxcars used for hauling grain.  The GN example is available in HO scale from Funaro (kit 3702).  After the period of this list, Burlington Northern experimented with boxcar/covered hoppers nicknamed "boppers" in the 1980s; three of these cars are in the collection of the Lake Superior Railroad museum.

The vast majority of boxcars used in grain service were plain boxcars using grain doors and seals.


Ben Hom


Decals

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


On my way hom e from Chicagoland
I stopped in the Bay Area and visited a friend wbo is a brass importer.  He dhowed me some examples of his latest E Unit project.  A process callrd "reverse printing" was used fir tge numbers in the number boards (the buyer could customize the engine for a specific train). A rather famous detailer of "O" scale engines uses this process which he prints up himself.  W&R Enerprises used this pricess on their Rio Grande gondola process years ago.

With this process only the lettering is transfered to the model (no decal film).
I don't know how this works over rivits
but will try to find out.  Seems like a real time saver in trimming the decals and hiding the surrounding film.

Is anyone familiar with this process?

Bill Pardie
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: Glow Decals (was Tichy decals)

Tim O'Connor
 


Actually Bill I think your photos illustrate what Pierre was talking about.
In the one photo where there is decal laid over the edge of a raised steel
flange, one can see that the decal did NOT conform to the flange and just
rides over it.

As someone pointed out, as long as the decals do not cover rivets or seams
or anything other than flat, smooth surfaces, then they're fine.

Tim O'Connor



The only Jerry Glow set I have used so far from my small stash is for my Georgia AAR gondola. They went down beautifully. here is a link to model photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z94ws1iwebgsv8h/AACEAB022ZeO9yCf8UUKkbcza?dl=0

Bill Welch


Re: Hopper Bottom Boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Here is a link to a brief photo article on a Canadian Pacific hopper bottom boxcar that appeared in the April 1921 edition of Popular Mechanics:
 
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/hopper_bottom_boxcar.jpg
 
Did these ever catch on with railroads in the U.S.?"

No, though this approach was used by GN and successor BN to increase the efficiency and utilization of boxcars used for hauling grain.  The GN example is available in HO scale from Funaro (kit 3702).  After the period of this list, Burlington Northern experimented with boxcar/covered hoppers nicknamed "boppers" in the 1980s; three of these cars are in the collection of the Lake Superior Railroad museum.

The vast majority of boxcars used in grain service were plain boxcars using grain doors and seals.


Ben Hom


Hopper Bottom Boxcar

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here is a link to a brief photo article on a Canadian Pacific hopper bottom boxcar that appeared in the April 1921 edition of Popular Mechanics:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/hopper_bottom_boxcar.jpg

 

Did these ever catch on with railroads in the U.S.?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

David,

Dulux gold is a very difficult color to get right.

Once upon a time the Kodak version of the Alps printer had a process orange that, when yellow was layered over, gave a really nice dulux.

But those cartridges have been un-available for years and anyone who may have one or two won’t sell. Last one I saw on eBay 4 -5 years ago went for over $100.00.

There is a new orange being marketed by Elephant Rocket out of Japan but it is not the same hue at all and is very tough to get to work and near impossible to overlay to change the hue.

Back in the days of mix-it-yourself screen printing it seemed to work okay and Microscale has a dulux gold that looks lousy on the decal sheet but looks better on the car.

And then there is the problem that colors varied from road to road back in the day.

John Hagen

 

>Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

>Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:10 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

>David Bott" lwulffe_doc

>Don told me at Timonium that it is an Epson printer marketed to sign makers with the one pass print head modified for decals. Not sure what modification was made.
>
>It could be the resolution is fine but the ink is thicker or less pliable than ALPS particles or laser toner or silk-screened ink.
>
>I have not had a chance to use them, but I have all-white lettering decals from them to test.
>
>I really hope they will work well enough I can custom order the 8.5x11 sheet of A&Y decals I designed. I cannot get dulux gold to come out nice enough for my satisfaction on my laser printer to print my own, sigh.


No reciprocal switching

dssa1051
 

Tony Thompson described reciprocal switching on his blog back in August.  I recently came across a situation where there was NOT a reciprocal switching agreement.  In the industry list for the CGW for Dubuque, IA the millwork company of Carr, Adams & Collier is shown as being served by all four railroads CGW, CB&Q, IC and MILW.  Does that mean that all four roads had access to the industry or did one road switch the millwork company and then bill the other road for the switching fees?  Dubuque is quite interesting in that it is a relatively small city with four railroads but unfortunately a good deal of the industrial area has been obliterated by highway construction in the last 25 years.


Robert Oom

Kalamazoo, MI

 


Re: The UTLX X tankers

Dave Parker
 

Bruce:

Yes, the "All About Tank Cars" book is a wonderful reference that I have consulted frequently over the last couple of years.  The ARA Specifications are just a fraction of the information contained therein.

There is also a 1919 edition of the same book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=-GBCAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22all+about+tank+cars%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj98o2qzpzXAhUpi1QKHZrHD0oQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false           

The differences are mostly nuanced, but I recall that the two books capture some changes in the lettering standards that date to 1920.

The tank car regs became even more involved when the ICC inserted itself into the oversight in 1927.  Some of what transpired I can glean from my 1931 CBC, but the full picture is better delineated in the first issue of the Code of Federal Regulations from 1938, Title 49, Part 80:

This website is funky in that you can only download 20 pages at a time.  The "meat" of the tank car regs is in parts 80.1 to 80.3, pages 959-1090.

Last, for the more transition-oriented, the Title 49 regs were updated and published in the CFR in 1949, Sections 71-90:




These references can be a real slog, but I think they are the definitive source for understanding the specs and regs for tank cars during our period.

Best,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA







On Monday, October 30, 2017 2:14 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Dave,

I did notice that the USG-A cars, which were also ARA class II, were allowed gasoline as a cargo...

Delving into this, I found “All About Tank Cars” as an Online eBook.  
Published by Standard Tank Car Co in 1921, this is a massive tome (870 pages) with some amazing information.  Around page 537 it discusses Class II specs and from this and other places, it appears that class II cars could be tested to a variety of limits that would then define the commodities they could haul.  So, unlike what I thought, there is no hard and fast rule for a class II car after 1917, but there is also no question that some class II cars were more restricted in what they could carry than class III cars.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Oct 30, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Bruce:

We can agree that the ARA Spec II cars were restricted from carrying certain cargoes, but I remain unconvinced that the more common refinery products (gasoline, kerosene, naptha) would necessarily be on that list.  

There were a number of criteria in the 1938 ICC regs:  safety valves, manway construction, and "outage" (i.e., dome volume).  If these could me met, inflammables such as gasoline could be legally carried.  BTW, the UTLX Class X cars had dome volumes ranging from 2.3 to 3.4% of the tank volume as built, making many of them particularly suitable for inflammables.

I revisited the 125723 post, and did not see anything that contradicts the above.  I did note some language concerning war emergency standards, about which I know nothing.  It appears, however, that they were more lenient than the pre-war ICC regs, and might be of some relevance to your 1944 modeling year.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



Re: Glow Decals (was Tichy decals)

Bill Welch
 

The only Jerry Glow set I have used so far from my small stash is for my Georgia AAR gondola. They went down beautifully. here is a link to model photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z94ws1iwebgsv8h/AACEAB022ZeO9yCf8UUKkbcza?dl=0

Bill Welch


Re: 40-foot War Emergency Gondola List

Bill Welch
 

I don't know all of the owners but I know TN&O had them.

Bill Welch


Re: 40-foot War Emergency Gondola List

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

John,

War Emergency gondolas were fully covered in RPC 28.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/1/17 5:51 AM, John Golden golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
Hi All,

Hope you all had a wonderful time at Naperville!

Can anyone provide please an accurate list of those railroads that acquired 40-foot "war emergency" gondolas.  I am aware that ACL had them, and Southern had a variant.  I don't want to speculate about other roads, so if anyone has a handy list I'd be grateful to have the info.

Thank you,
John
 
John Golden
Albersbach, Germany

https://railroadprototypemodeler.wordpress.com/

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