Date   

Re: Make Your Own Decals (was Tichy Decals)

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Dave  North,

You need to apply a layer of V Photo Primer between the white layers if you’re using a MD-5000 or MD-5500.

If you have a MD-1000 or 1300 you should use a pass of finish between layers. And you may need to use three layers of white with the finish between all layers.

This is due to the “new” white cartridges introduced with the MD-5500. It doesn’t want to adhere to itself.

John Hagen

 

 

Ø  Re: Make Your Own Decals (was Tichy Decals)

Ø  Thu Nov 2, 2017 8:45 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

Ø  "David North" atsfsd26

Ø  David mentioned that the white cart for his laser printer does not produce a
very opaque white.

Ø  To be fair, my ALPS has the same problem (I haven't seen David's decals so I
can't compare actual opacity.

Ø  While the printer should print a white base coat then a white overlay, mine
won't (the head scratches the first print while laying down the second one).

Ø  So I print two decals and simply apply one, set it with Micro Sol, let it
dry thoroughly, then apply the second decal over the first.

Ø  For reporting marks and road numbers it works fine.

Ø  I use Tango Papa paper which is thin so I don't have a problem with the
overall thickness of the two decals.

Ø  Cheers

Ø  Dave North

 


ON OUR MODERATOR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I picked up a copy of Tony's book on Transitional Railroading at Naperville. A pleasant surprise in the book was a shot of our moderator's (Mike Brock) excellent Union Pacific railroad. We tend to think of Mike as the SHERRIF and forget what an excellent modeler he is. As I remember coverage of his work back in Terry Metclalf's Union Pacific publications, I'm sure many on this list dont know of his modeling skills. I would certainly like to see more photos of his work.

Billl Pardie


Railway Prototype Cyclopedia

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC Members,
The RP CYC Publishing Co. announces that Volume 34 published in the spring of 2017 was the final volume of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia. We thank the many members of the STMFC for your loyal support of the series that continued over a 20 year period & totaled nearly 3,900 pages of content mostly on steam-era freight cars.

Currently remaining in stock are limited quantities of 12 volume numbers (1, 10 through 16, 19, 31-32, 33, and 34), and we offer these volumes at attractive discount prices that includes postage to addresses in the U.S. In addition, some copies of Volume 8 remain that were held back from dealer sales due to a few relatively minor ink smears that appear on 5 or 6 random pages. These Volume 8 books are offered "as-is." 

Prices:
$8.00 for Volume 1 (list $20.95)
$10.00 each for Volumes 8 (as-is), 10 through 16, 19 (list $24.95 to $29.95)
$20.00 each for Volumes 31-32, 33, 34 (list $59.95)

If a volume becomes out of stock, we'll use first-in/first-out method and notify you accordingly for a refund.

For this offer to be valid, payment by check or money order for these volumes must be postmarked by Saturday, November 18, 2017, and mailed to:

RP CYC Publishing Co.
P.O. Box 451
Chesterfield, MO 63006-0451

To download a flyer: http://www.rpcycpub..com/RPCYC_final_flyer.pdf

Please send questions or comments OFF-LIST to rpcyc@...

We sincerely appreciate the opportunity via the STMFC for making notifications and for the support we have received.

Thank you,
Ed Hawkins & Pat Wider
RP CYC Publishing Co.


Re: Make Your Own Decals (was Tichy Decals)

David North
 

David mentioned that the white cart for his laser printer does not produce a very opaque white.

To be fair, my ALPS has the same problem (I haven’t seen David’s decals so I can’t compare actual opacity.

While the printer should print a white base coat then a white overlay, mine won’t (the head scratches the first print while laying down the second one).

So I print two decals and simply apply one, set it with Micro Sol, let it dry thoroughly, then apply the second decal over the first.

For reporting marks and road numbers it works fine.

I use Tango Papa paper which is thin so I don’t have a problem with the overall thickness of the two decals.

Cheers

Dave North


Re: C&NW lettering

Jack Mullen
 

Tony,
I'm a C&NW modeler, or perhaps I should say CNW modeler, and my first answer is "I wish I knew for sure" 
IAs Tim says,  it's reasonably clear from  photo evidence, although I'd argue for a slightly earlier date.. Ian Cranstone's reporting mark list gives 4/38 for the appearance of "CNW" in the ORER, and offhand, I don't have anything to contradict that.  Most of my references and photos are still packed in boxes, but I can cite a freshly painted SS boxcar with a 2-40 reweigh date as an early appearance of the CNW mark. I'm curious what dates you have found, and from what sources.

In terms of freight car lettering, the change isn't so much the removal of the ampersand, but rather, application of a reporting mark where none had been used previously. The general practice in the period between the wars was to use the full name "CHICAGO AND NORTH WESTERN RY."  on the car side,  and the car number, without  reporting mark. End lettering used C&NW and the car number. Flatcars and some others with limited space used "C&NW" or "C&NW RY" instead of the spelled out name.  

I'm mostly going from memory here, and the North Western's practices weren't always consistent, so please take this as generalization with likely exceptions.

Jack Mullen


Re: C&NW lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

The ampersand was dropped on newly painted box cars in the 1940's. Freshly
painted cars without ampersands can be seen in some of the Jack Delano photos
from 1942-1943.

Tim O'



I have recently dug through my prototype information and find conflicting data on WHEN the Chicago and North Western changed its reporting mark to omit the ampersand, that is, to change C&NW into CNW. (Circa 1953??) I feel sure there are folks on this list who KNOW the answer, and if so, please supply it. Thanks in advance!

Tony Thompson 


Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

hubert mask
 

We can print most of the work from your art work. At least we can look at it and make a determination. 

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc 
Maskisland@...


On Nov 2, 2017, at 7:56 PM, 'John Hagen' sprinthag@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Dennis, Ray Breyer and group.

The problem is not being able to print white. There are several ways to do that nowadays. No, not with your off-the-shelf $100.00 - $250.00 Inkjet or laser printers but there reasonable priced units that can print white.

The problem comes in if you need to print anything else except white or black. The colors are not opaque at all. If you were to place a red image on, say a medium to dark blue background, the red image would basically disappear.

What is necessary is to have a printer that will print a layer or two, depending on the darkness of the background, of white and then be able to print the color layer on top of the white while retaining registration. That is what is needed to get opaque colors, no matter what printer you are using.

There are printers that can do it all in one pass but they run in the $20,000.00 - $30,000.00 range. You would have to have really healthy decal business if you’re going to turn a profit, respectable or meager, when HO sets go for $6.00.

This is why has problems with thick ink. Apparently that is the amount of white ink needed to be opaque. Plus the white has to go under any part of the image that is not black.

Yes, anyone who has the necessary equipment to do so can make custom runs for anyone who wants them. However, the set up costs for offset and even screen printers is not inexpensive. So if you want HO Coal Porter decals you had better want enough sets to do a full, scale length unit train if you don’t want to spend $40.00/set.  What is needed are printers that can print directly from artwork. Like inkjets, lasers and. Oh yes, Alps. The printer Tichy (and others) uses can do it also. That really, really lowers and set up costs. With an Alps there are no setup costs other than artwork which is just the labor on the part of the artist. In my case, that is me. So the cost of an Alps decal sheet is the same for the last one as it is for the first one. There is no economy of scale. But, if you have big sets costs, the price per set come down the more sets you print. If you were to want maybe more than 25 sets of the average HO set, an Alps gets to be more expensive. But for 1, 2, 3 or 10 sets, Alps is the best deal around.

I can print you a 5.5 X 8.5 sheet of waterslide decals (5.0 X 7.0 print area) of any color you want for $20.00. Less if you only need black print. They will be printed on an Alps. They will be of very high quality albeit the maximum resolution will be 600 d.p.i. The numbers of color hues are limited unless I dither the colors (there will be an obvious dot matrix on close inspection). If at all possible I used layered colors to achieve different hues so the color is solid.

For reasonable cost, short run decals it is still not possible to beat an Alps. With well drawn, scalable vector graphics artwork (used by anyone worth his salt) and a real working knowledge of what an Alps is capable of and what it is not capable of, excellent decals can be had. But the printers have not been made for over twelve years and are getting real scarce ---- and expensive. They are finicky as all get out and repairs are only done by one company located in Japan. Their prices really are not bad but you’re looking at $500.00 shipping each way. Inks are also expensive and some of the process (tinting) colors are not available at any price.  And the white ink that is so very important for our use is sky rocketing.

To this end I am looking for others who can do my printing for me using my artwork. But so far I have not come up with anything that is what everybody wants. I will continue and I will continue printing Alps, provided I can keep at least one decent operating one.

I just may attempt that reverse printing. Getting the reverse printed images on the decal paper can be done with any printer that prints a properly registered white layer, like an Alps. Developing a method to reliably remove the film without messing up the images is the problem.

John Hagen

 

>Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

>.Thu Nov 2, 2017 7:59 am (PDT) . Posted by:

>soolinehistory

>I think the key to the problem was mentioned several pages of messages back... The big problem with short run printing of decals is finding a system that can print white, since most computer printers rely on the white paper showing through. ALPS printers used a ribbon that was thermally >set to the decal paper, and included white for use as a backer to overprint transparent colors like red over other colors. The ALPS technology is almost history now.
>
>The other industry that uses white printing is custom T shirts. But fabrics are printed with a thick rubberized ink that adheres to the threads in the weave. Someone stated a while back that Tichy is using a "modified fabric print head." I suspect the ink in the process is not optimist for printing >decals.
>
>
>Hope he gets the kinks worked out.
>
>
>Dennis Storzek

 


Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Dennis, Ray Breyer and group.

The problem is not being able to print white. There are several ways to do that nowadays. No, not with your off-the-shelf $100.00 - $250.00 Inkjet or laser printers but there reasonable priced units that can print white.

The problem comes in if you need to print anything else except white or black. The colors are not opaque at all. If you were to place a red image on, say a medium to dark blue background, the red image would basically disappear.

What is necessary is to have a printer that will print a layer or two, depending on the darkness of the background, of white and then be able to print the color layer on top of the white while retaining registration. That is what is needed to get opaque colors, no matter what printer you are using.

There are printers that can do it all in one pass but they run in the $20,000.00 - $30,000.00 range. You would have to have really healthy decal business if you’re going to turn a profit, respectable or meager, when HO sets go for $6.00.

This is why has problems with thick ink. Apparently that is the amount of white ink needed to be opaque. Plus the white has to go under any part of the image that is not black.

Yes, anyone who has the necessary equipment to do so can make custom runs for anyone who wants them. However, the set up costs for offset and even screen printers is not inexpensive. So if you want HO Coal Porter decals you had better want enough sets to do a full, scale length unit train if you don’t want to spend $40.00/set.  What is needed are printers that can print directly from artwork. Like inkjets, lasers and. Oh yes, Alps. The printer Tichy (and others) uses can do it also. That really, really lowers and set up costs. With an Alps there are no setup costs other than artwork which is just the labor on the part of the artist. In my case, that is me. So the cost of an Alps decal sheet is the same for the last one as it is for the first one. There is no economy of scale. But, if you have big sets costs, the price per set come down the more sets you print. If you were to want maybe more than 25 sets of the average HO set, an Alps gets to be more expensive. But for 1, 2, 3 or 10 sets, Alps is the best deal around.

I can print you a 5.5 X 8.5 sheet of waterslide decals (5.0 X 7.0 print area) of any color you want for $20.00. Less if you only need black print. They will be printed on an Alps. They will be of very high quality albeit the maximum resolution will be 600 d.p.i. The numbers of color hues are limited unless I dither the colors (there will be an obvious dot matrix on close inspection). If at all possible I used layered colors to achieve different hues so the color is solid.

For reasonable cost, short run decals it is still not possible to beat an Alps. With well drawn, scalable vector graphics artwork (used by anyone worth his salt) and a real working knowledge of what an Alps is capable of and what it is not capable of, excellent decals can be had. But the printers have not been made for over twelve years and are getting real scarce ---- and expensive. They are finicky as all get out and repairs are only done by one company located in Japan. Their prices really are not bad but you’re looking at $500.00 shipping each way. Inks are also expensive and some of the process (tinting) colors are not available at any price.  And the white ink that is so very important for our use is sky rocketing.

To this end I am looking for others who can do my printing for me using my artwork. But so far I have not come up with anything that is what everybody wants. I will continue and I will continue printing Alps, provided I can keep at least one decent operating one.

I just may attempt that reverse printing. Getting the reverse printed images on the decal paper can be done with any printer that prints a properly registered white layer, like an Alps. Developing a method to reliably remove the film without messing up the images is the problem.

John Hagen

 

>Re: Tichy decals (was RE: Decal Adhesive)

>.Thu Nov 2, 2017 7:59 am (PDT) . Posted by:

>soolinehistory

>I think the key to the problem was mentioned several pages of messages back... The big problem with short run printing of decals is finding a system that can print white, since most computer printers rely on the white paper showing through. ALPS printers used a ribbon that was thermally >set to the decal paper, and included white for use as a backer to overprint transparent colors like red over other colors. The ALPS technology is almost history now.
>
>The other industry that uses white printing is custom T shirts. But fabrics are printed with a thick rubberized ink that adheres to the threads in the weave. Someone stated a while back that Tichy is using a "modified fabric print head." I suspect the ink in the process is not optimist for printing >decals.
>
>
>Hope he gets the kinks worked out.
>
>
>Dennis Storzek

 


C&NW lettering

Tony Thompson
 

         I have recently dug through my prototype information and find conflicting data on WHEN the Chicago and North Western changed its reporting mark to omit the ampersand, that is, to change C&NW into CNW. (Circa 1953??) I feel sure there are folks on this list who KNOW the answer, and if so, please supply it. Thanks in advance!

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Adding weight when no weight

Bill Vaughn
 

I bought two Westerfield Bx-3 that were underweight by quite a bit.  I carefully soaked the side and underframe joint with acetone.  Q tip worked very good.  As it softened the glue I pried open the joint so it would not reglue.  Once inside added stick on weight and reglued.

Just take your time and be careful.

Bill Vaughn


On Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:48 PM, "Srrfan1401 srrfan1401@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Tim’s right check for leaks first. I’ve been driving all day. Sorry and good catch Tim 


On Nov 2, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

First inject water to find any leaks and plug them with ACC. Repeat until no more leaks.
Shake out the water and allow to dry (evaporate) for a few days.

Mix lead shot with white glue. Inject into the car body with a plastic turkey baster.
Plug hole with blob of gum or stick-um and allow plenty of time for the mixture to set.

Wash baster out immediately afterwards with water, in case this happens again.

Tim O'



3. Drill hole in underframe large enough to pour desired amount of small shot and reseal.  Shot will be loose in carbody unless you want to risk flooding some sort of agent into the car to fix it in place.

Ben Hom



Make Your Own Decals (was Tichy Decals)

Dave Parker
 

All:

Speaking as the guy who printed the MDT decals that Ray Breyer mentioned in his recent post, I thought I would offer a few follow-up observations.

Like many, I used to lament the lack of commercial decals that I needed for a number of projects.  Then I started to look at it pragmatically:  the odds of a commercial outfit offering obscure, pre-1942, Roman-typeface decals for the Central Vermont were functionally nil.  So I started making my own.

At first, the printing (at least of white decals) was the most daunting part, so I did a couple of runs with Rail Graphics.  Great stuff, but there is a 25-set minimum and, as Ray noted, Ron is closing shop at the end of the year.

I have a color LaserJet that set me back all of $189 in 2012; it didn’t owe me anything and I had already made a few black decals with it that looked great.  So, I took the plunge and ordered the white Ghost cartridge from Germany – $147 U.S. to my door, and it arrived very quickly.  As I understand it, these cartridges are simply recycled black toner cartridges that have been refilled with white.  You just swap it into the black slot in the laser, prepare black-on- white artwork, and print.  The printer “thinks” it’s printing black, but it’s not.  Decal paper is readily available (MicroMark, Tango Papa) and its cost is trivial – about a buck for an 8.5 x 11 sheet.

With this setup, I can print black, white, and some limited colors.  Strong reds and blues, such as the stripes on the MDT reefers, are no problem.  As David Bott noted, yellows and golds are a no-go; you will need to go commercial (or ALPS).  I would quibble with one thing Ray said:  with sufficient magnification, I can actually read the 1" lettering, not just the 2", in HO scale (albeit barely).  So the resolution is better than with any screen-printed decals that I have seen thus far.

One nice thing (IMO) about the laser-printed white is that it is NOT very opaque.  It is reminiscent of the lovely pad-printing on the Accurail cars in that it is “pre-faded” a bit.  Moreover, I can enhance that fading by setting the artwork to something like a 75% gray scale so that the printer lays down less of the white toner.  And finally, I have found that you can swap the white and black toner cartridges in and out as often as need be, without any downside.

So, in my view, I am back to where the artwork preparation is the more limiting (or daunting) factor.  Many decal-makers tout the virtues a vector-based graphics program, usually Corel Draw or Adobe Illustrator.  I have Inkscape, a freeware equivalent that seems to do the job, but I don’t actually use it much.  Having owned and used MS Powerpoint for almost three decades, I find that it can do about 95% of the layout that I need, even though it is raster-based (and Inkscape can cover the rest).

That leaves the pesky problem of fonts (or typefaces).  There are a few free True Type fonts out there that are useful, notably the B&O font offered by the historical society.  I also bought a few fonts from Rail Fonts that are useful as is, or can be easily modified with a font editor – these run $10 to 15 each.  There are a bunch of font editors out there but, based on a recommendation, I purchased the home edition of High Logic’s Font Creator that currently sells for $79.  It seems to have more capabilities than I need (or am likely to master), including the ability to trace a digital image of a character that provides another starting point for glyph creation.

My personal view is that getting up to speed on decal creation does not require particularly sharp computer acumen, it just requires patience.  But, much like mastering Sketchup and 3D printing, it opens up a whole vista of new modeling possibilities, especially for small and obscure roads, and for pre-WWII eras.

As always, YMMV.

PS:  I have recouped the cost of the Ghost, and most of the cost of the font editor, by doing a few limited decals runs for friends.  If you go down this path, you will be amazed how many new friends you can acquire!

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA






Re: 40-foot War Emergency Gondola List

Bill Welch
 

Also Southern with drop doors. They were painted black w/white stenciling.

Bill Welch


Re: Adding weight when no weight

O Fenton Wells
 

Tim’s right check for leaks first. I’ve been driving all day. Sorry and good catch Tim 


On Nov 2, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


First inject water to find any leaks and plug them with ACC. Repeat until no more leaks.
Shake out the water and allow to dry (evaporate) for a few days.

Mix lead shot with white glue. Inject into the car body with a plastic turkey baster.
Plug hole with blob of gum or stick-um and allow plenty of time for the mixture to set.

Wash baster out immediately afterwards with water, in case this happens again.

Tim O'



3. Drill hole in underframe large enough to pour desired amount of small shot and reseal.  Shot will be loose in carbody unless you want to risk flooding some sort of agent into the car to fix it in place.

Ben Hom


Re: Adding weight when no weight

O Fenton Wells
 

Drill a hole in the bottom pour in B.B. ‘a and white glue plug hole and shake to level load the car. Sit and let dry


On Nov 2, 2017, at 4:06 PM, Denny Anspach danspachmd@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

How do listers non-destructively add needed weight to finished house cars, when no weight was added originally?

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: Adding weight when no weight

Tim O'Connor
 


First inject water to find any leaks and plug them with ACC. Repeat until no more leaks.
Shake out the water and allow to dry (evaporate) for a few days.

Mix lead shot with white glue. Inject into the car body with a plastic turkey baster.
Plug hole with blob of gum or stick-um and allow plenty of time for the mixture to set.

Wash baster out immediately afterwards with water, in case this happens again.

Tim O'



3. Drill hole in underframe large enough to pour desired amount of small shot and reseal.  Shot will be loose in carbody unless you want to risk flooding some sort of agent into the car to fix it in place.

Ben Hom


Re: Adding weight when no weight

 

I acquired a quantity of 1/16” thick lead sheet from the medical center where I work. You can get it from https://www.mcmaster.com/#lead-sheets/=1a3179s





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, November 2, 2017 at 3:06 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Adding weight when no weight





How do listers non-destructively add needed weight to finished house cars, when no weight was added originally?

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Adding weight when no weight

Benjamin Hom
 

Denny Anspach asked:
"How do listers non-destructively add needed weight to finished house cars, when no weight was added originally?"

1. Switch out plastic trucks with metal trucks.
2. Conceal weight between center sills and any other hidden areas of underbody using moldable lead, lead wool, or small shot.
3. Drill hole in underframe large enough to pour desired amount of small shot and reseal.  Shot will be loose in carbody unless you want to risk flooding some sort of agent into the car to fix it in place.


Ben Hom


Adding weight when no weight

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

How do listers non-destructively add needed weight to finished house cars, when no weight was added originally?

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: 40-foot War Emergency Gondola List

Tim O'Connor
 

John

T&NO (later SP), ACL, Wabash (later KO&G), GM&O, NYC

 G-50-17 TNO series 42450-42649 blt 1944 PRESSED STEEL CAR ( 200)
 G-50-19 TNO series 42650-42849 blt 1946 RALSTON STEEL CAR ( 200)
 G-50-19 TNO series 44100-44599 blt 1948 RALSTON STEEL CAR ( 500)
 G-50-21 TNO series 46300-46999 blt 1949 AC&F              ( 700)
 G-50-24 TNO series 47000-47999 blt 1951 SP EQUIPMENT CO   (1000)
 G-50-24 TNO series 48000-48499 blt 1951 SP EQUIPMENT CO   ( 500)

 ACL series 93600-93899 blt ?? renumbered after rebuilding with steel sides

 WABASH series 13000-13249 blt 1944 WABASH DECATUR SHOPS

 GM&O series 44000-44249 blt ?? (longitudinal drop doors)

 NYC series 643000-644099 blt 1942 DSI lot 719-G (different design than above cars)

Also, PRR built 45'7" foot versions of the above 41'6" foot versions! (e.g. G29B, G29D)

Tim O'Connor



Hope you all had a wonderful time at Naperville!

Can anyone provide please an accurate list of those railroads that acquired 40-foot "war emergency" gondolas.  I am aware that ACL had them, and Southern had a variant.  I don't want to speculate about other roads, so if anyone has a handy list I'd be grateful to have the info.

John Golden


Re: Film about West India Fruit (Impounded Freight Cars)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Nice film.


Does anyone know how many, if any, freight cars belonging to U.S. railroads were impounded in Cuba after the trade embargo was instituted?


It makes one wonder if any such cars are still around on the island.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

43321 - 43340 of 196894