Date   

Re: LNE Rolling Stock

Eric Hansmann
 

That is a beefy end sill on that car!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:12 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: LNE Rolling Stock

 



I found this example about a year ago:

The drawing is for a SAL class A-1 automobile box cars SAL 9011-9035 (1936) and SAL 9036-9060 (1937).  I am intrigued by the note that these box cars were built from former gondola series 96000 built in 1926. The gondolas were in-service for about a decade and then some were used to build these box cars. Was this done under some Depression Program similar to what the B&O used to built their M-15 wagon-top box cars using M-15 fishbelly underframes? When that program ended the B&O built its wagon-tops as totally new cars (Class M-53).

I found photos of a A-1, but not of the original gondola.

Pictures of SAL 9028

 

 

Pictures of SAL 9028

Pictures of SAL 9028

 

 

 

Preview by Yahoo

 

 

 

 SAL 9028 (Box Car)

 




Can others supply additional information about these box cars?  It seems to be a good candidate for a resin kit especially since one of them has been preserved in a museum.

And this reply ...

Bob,

SAL's 96099 is shown in figure 234 on page 223 of the 1931 CAR BUILDER'S CYCLOPEDIA. You will also find it in Gregg's TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 46. The car in question was class G7, a 41' 6" flat-bottom composite gondola with nine side stakes, a ribbed end with four wales, but no darts, and a slightly protruding end sill, same as the auto car conversion.

Yours Aye,

 

Garth Groff

There maybe many other such conversions.

Bob Witt


Re: Tank Car Capacities

Dave Parker
 

Dennis captured the gist of it, but here are a few more details concerning the shell and dome volumes both being listed in the tariffs. 

1.  Starting in 1917, all new general purpose tank cars (MCB/ARA Class II and III, later ICC 103 and 104) had to built with a minimum dome volume of 2% of the total car volume (shell plus dome).  So, a 10,000 gal car needed a dome a bit bigger than 200 gallons.  Allowing for variation in the shell size, many builders used 210 gal domes to achieve this minimum.  But many cars were built with larger domes:  ca. 270 gal (~2.6%) or 340 gal (~3.4%) as but two examples.  Similar patterns can be seen in the tariffs for 8000 gal cars, i.e., 165 was the minimum, but you can find lots of 210- and 265-gal domes.

2.  Based on the 1923 ICC regulations (a revision of the 1918 regs which I don't have), "inflammable" liquids shipped in uninsulated cars had to have adequate room for expansion.  The numerical values of that extra space depended on two things, the expansion coefficient of the particular commodity, and the temperature at which it was loaded.  This was captured in an "outage chart" which allowed for a quick graphical calculation of the needed volume.  For example, gasoline or naptha loaded at 55 F required an expansion volume of ~2.5%, not the 2.0 % offered by the dome of some cars.  But, the same liquid loaded at 75 F could be legally loaded into a car with a 2.0% dome.

3.  Dennis is correct in that, if the dome volume was not adequate, the additional expansion volume could achieved by not filling the car to the very top of the shell (BTW, filling part of all of the dome itself was strictly verboten).  Apparently, this was routinely accomplished by using an outage table that was unique to each car volume and geometry, and supplied by the builder (I have seen a couple).  Each table would show how many gallons of headspace would be gained by filling to 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. inches below level-full.  This strikes me as something of a chore compared to being able to simply top off the shell, and may help explain the apparent popularity of cars with larger domes.

Certainly the tariff books must have been a convenient resource.  Any car rolling into a loading facility could be quickly looked up, and the adequacy of the dome volume for that particular situation (commodity and temperature) immediately assessed.

Of course the tongue-in-cheek answer to Lester's question is that the tariff books exist to facilitate the research of rail-fans and modelers.  The tank and dome volumes are incredibly useful tools for identifying blocks of identical cars and then relating them back to the manufacturer (and sometimes the build year).  Mike Schleigh and I have untangled a large fraction of the Sinclair fleet, in no small part due to the tariffs (Ian, thank you again for your yeoman's effort on these books).

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Friday, November 10, 2017 5:49 AM, "destorzek@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

I purchased and received in the mail the book titled Tank Car Capacities Tariff, Freight Tariff 300-H, from 1955, showing capacities  of tank cars.  The book was digitized by Ian Cranston and reproduced by Lulu.  The book provides the capacity of a tank car in gallons for the shell and dome.  I do not understand why the gallons would need to be split between the two rather than just the total of the two together.  Does someone know what the purpose of providing numbers for the shell and dome separately was?  Thank You in advance for your time and effort to help.
Lester Breuer
====================

The shell capacity is the actual amount you can ship in the car; the dome capacity allows you to calculate the percentage available for expansion, so you can adjust the amount you load if the expansion is not adequate for your particular commodity.

Dennis Storzek



Re: LNE Rolling Stock

rwitt_2000
 

I found this example about a year ago:

The drawing is for a SAL class A-1 automobile box cars SAL 9011-9035 (1936) and SAL 9036-9060 (1937).  I am intrigued by the note that these box cars were built from former gondola series 96000 built in 1926. The gondolas were in-service for about a decade and then some were used to build these box cars. Was this done under some Depression Program similar to what the B&O used to built their M-15 wagon-top box cars using M-15 fishbelly underframes? When that program ended the B&O built its wagon-tops as totally new cars (Class M-53).

I found photos of a A-1, but not of the original gondola.

Pictures of SAL 9028

 SAL 9028 (Box Car)

 




Can others supply additional information about these box cars?  It seems to be a good candidate for a resin kit especially since one of them has been preserved in a museum.

And this reply ...

Bob,

SAL's 96099 is shown in figure 234 on page 223 of the 1931 CAR BUILDER'S CYCLOPEDIA. You will also find it in Gregg's TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 46. The car in question was class G7, a 41' 6" flat-bottom composite gondola with nine side stakes, a ribbed end with four wales, but no darts, and a slightly protruding end sill, same as the auto car conversion.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

There maybe many other such conversions.

Bob Witt


Re: other gondola to box car rebuilds - was LNE Rolling Stock

Ray Breyer
 

Add one more: the W&LE converted 400 wood gondolas in their 43000-43999 and 44000-44999 series into all-wood, double sheathed boxcars in the 22000-22399 series between 1917 and 1918. There were still 275 on the roster in 1930, but the group was don to only four cars by 1934, and they were gone by 1936.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Friday, November 10, 2017, 8:13:36 AM CST, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] wrote:

This is interesting as another regional railroad was also converting older gondolas to box cars in the mid-1920s, too.

The Western Maryland began converting fishbelly center sill, composite gondolas in the 40960-40971 and 40972-40973 series about 1926. Nearly 900 of these gondolas were listed in the 1919 ORER and only 13 listed in the 1927 ORER.

The 1943 ORER lists 805 box cars in the 23000-24999 series with 6-foot doors and an 8-foot interior height. These were double sheathed cars with an odd bolster to end sill distance. These cars were the dominant box car class on the WM in 1940, and largely unknown to many fans of the railroad.

How many other lines were rebuilding gondolas into box cars in the 1920s?
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

  


Re: other gondola to box car rebuilds - was LNE Rolling Stock

Eric Hansmann
 

This is interesting as another regional railroad was also converting older gondolas to box cars in the mid-1920s, too.

 

The Western Maryland began converting fishbelly center sill, composite gondolas in the 40960-40971 and 40972-40973 series about 1926. Nearly 900 of these gondolas were listed in the 1919 ORER and only 13 listed in the 1927 ORER.

 

The 1943 ORER lists 805 box cars in the 23000-24999 series with 6-foot doors and an 8-foot interior height. These were double sheathed cars with an odd bolster to end sill distance. These cars were the dominant box car class on the WM in 1940, and largely unknown to many fans of the railroad.

 

How many other lines were rebuilding gondolas into box cars in the 1920s?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] LNE Rolling Stock

 




According to Eric Neubauer's LNE freight car book these cars were rebuilt from gondolas by LNE in 1925.

 

They were originally from gondola series 10001-10200 built by PSC in 1916. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

John Evans 

Easton, PA


On Nov 9, 2017, at 6:43 PM, johnsykesiii@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Help!!!

 

I am preparing an LNE roster for 1954 – 1958.  Not my primary road (which is PRR) but I am going to make a “hypothetical” connection near Bath, PA.  Per usual, I want to get things right so I have been chasing down the details of the LNE roster (which I will post here when completed).

 

First issue:  I am looking for construction information on the 7001-7200 boxcar series.  There were 182 left in 1954 and they were gone by 1958.  They are specified as “steel frame” boxcars in the 1954 ORER, with an interior length of 39’10”.  I’m pretty sure they were single-sheathed boxcars from their 50 ton capacity. But . . .

 

I haven’t a clue as to who made them or when.  Somewhere, I saw a date of 1916, but think that was off the side of an Accurail model boxcar (very questionable).  I could not find these cars in Ted Culotta’s Box & Automobile Cars book nor Ed Kaminshi’s ACF, or Magor Car Corporation books or Erik Neubauer’s PSCC e-book.

 

Anyone know who built those 200 boxcars for LNE and when were they built?  Also, where they a Pre-WWI, USRA or ARA design or clone?

 

TYIA -- John

 



Re: Tank Car Capacities

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <frograbbit602@...> wrote :

I purchased and received in the mail the book titled Tank Car Capacities Tariff, Freight Tariff 300-H, from 1955, showing capacities  of tank cars.  The book was digitized by Ian Cranston and reproduced by Lulu.  The book provides the capacity of a tank car in gallons for the shell and dome.  I do not understand why the gallons would need to be split between the two rather than just the total of the two together.  Does someone know what the purpose of providing numbers for the shell and dome separately was?  Thank You in advance for your time and effort to help.

Lester Breuer

====================


The shell capacity is the actual amount you can ship in the car; the dome capacity allows you to calculate the percentage available for expansion, so you can adjust the amount you load if the expansion is not adequate for your particular commodity.


Dennis Storzek


Tank Car Capacities

frograbbit602
 

I purchased and received in the mail the book titled Tank Car Capacities Tariff, Freight Tariff 300-H, from 1955, showing capacities  of tank cars.  The book was digitized by Ian Cranston and reproduced by Lulu.  The book provides the capacity of a tank car in gallons for the shell and dome.  I do not understand why the gallons would need to be split between the two rather than just the total of the two together.  Does someone know what the purpose of providing numbers for the shell and dome separately was?  Thank You in advance for your time and effort to help.

Lester Breuer



Re: LNE Rolling Stock

golden1014
 


Hi John,

Todd Herman is our resident L&NE expert.  You can contact him offline at rth_628@....

John Golden


Re: LNE Rolling Stock

John Evans
 

According to Eric Neubauer's LNE freight car book these cars were rebuilt from gondolas by LNE in 1925.

They were originally from gondola series 10001-10200 built by PSC in 1916. 

Hope this helps. 

John Evans 
Easton, PA


On Nov 9, 2017, at 6:43 PM, johnsykesiii@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Help!!!

 

I am preparing an LNE roster for 1954 – 1958.  Not my primary road (which is PRR) but I am going to make a “hypothetical” connection near Bath, PA.  Per usual, I want to get things right so I have been chasing down the details of the LNE roster (which I will post here when completed).

 

First issue:  I am looking for construction information on the 7001-7200 boxcar series.  There were 182 left in 1954 and they were gone by 1958.  They are specified as “steel frame” boxcars in the 1954 ORER, with an interior length of 39’10”.  I’m pretty sure they were single-sheathed boxcars from their 50 ton capacity. But . . .

 

I haven’t a clue as to who made them or when.  Somewhere, I saw a date of 1916, but think that was off the side of an Accurail model boxcar (very questionable).  I could not find these cars in Ted Culotta’s Box & Automobile Cars book nor Ed Kaminshi’s ACF, or Magor Car Corporation books or Erik Neubauer’s PSCC e-book.

 

Anyone know who built those 200 boxcars for LNE and when were they built?  Also, where they a Pre-WWI, USRA or ARA design or clone?

 

TYIA -- John



LNE Rolling Stock

John Sykes III
 

Help!!!

 

I am preparing an LNE roster for 1954 – 1958.  Not my primary road (which is PRR) but I am going to make a “hypothetical” connection near Bath, PA.  Per usual, I want to get things right so I have been chasing down the details of the LNE roster (which I will post here when completed).

 

First issue:  I am looking for construction information on the 7001-7200 boxcar series.  There were 182 left in 1954 and they were gone by 1958.  They are specified as “steel frame” boxcars in the 1954 ORER, with an interior length of 39’10”.  I’m pretty sure they were single-sheathed boxcars from their 50 ton capacity. But . . .

 

I haven’t a clue as to who made them or when.  Somewhere, I saw a date of 1916, but think that was off the side of an Accurail model boxcar (very questionable).  I could not find these cars in Ted Culotta’s Box & Automobile Cars book nor Ed Kaminshi’s ACF, or Magor Car Corporation books or Erik Neubauer’s PSCC e-book.

 

Anyone know who built those 200 boxcars for LNE and when were they built?  Also, where they a Pre-WWI, USRA or ARA design or clone?

 

TYIA -- John



Very Small Chain

Bill Welch
 

A new modeling friend in Germany helped me acquire some very small chain, 50 links per inch. Here you can compare it to Abe's head. Now I need to figure out how to attach it as .012 wire is too large to slip through a link. maybe .010 or .008 wire. Here is a link to a photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecmp2nm17wvtw9h/Very%20Small%20Chain%20.JPG?dl=0


Bill Welch



Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

As I recall, Bob Handyman had a close history with Virginia, notably Abingdon. I recall once when he gave me a very, very detailed al fresco run down on restaurants and other amenities in that old southwestern VA community, enough to always think of him when we visit or pass through there. Scratch a N&W fan, and most will bleed Virginian- one of the most attractive, interesting, and exciting of all railroads. .

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Bill Welch
 

I missed this issue of MR'ing and it is interesting to see the photos. The two inservice photos I purchased of #61513 from "Bob's" do not show any kind of letter board but rather the large "VIRGINIAN" stenciling was applied directly to the sheathing. The photos show a mixture of Andrews trucks also, one matching the Kadee and the other looks like USRA.

There is an album of photos titled "Virginian Bx10 Boxcar" in the photos section of the ResinFreightCar Yahoo group showing the model I built using my scratch built side pattern, an Accurail roof and F&C ends and underframe.

Bill Welch


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Benjamin Hom
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
"I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the small quantity of these cars in-service. The
October 1926 ORER lists 248.
 
While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000 single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends."
 
Unfortunately, this is a case of "it's getting published because the Editor thinks it's cool," and something that Hundman shouldn't be singled out for as it happens in every enthusiast publication.


Ben Hom


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Scott H. Haycock
 

My Mistake- The articles start in the Feb. 2005 issue, and run through the June 2005 issue.

Scott Haycock


 

Anybody know the real date of the issue these were published in? As I recall, Mainline modeler was long history by Feb. of 2015.


Most published drawings from the formative years of our hobby were done for one simple reason; a set of prototype drawings became available. Before the recent spate of large drawing collections becoming available through several museum and historical society archives, this wasn't such a common occurrence. I would suspect Hundman got his hands on the drawings when the N&W started transferring their historic drawing collection to the N&WHS.

Dennis Storzek


---In STMFC@..., wrote :

I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the small quantity of these cars in-service. The October 1926 ORER lists 248.

 

While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000 single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 





Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Eric Hansmann
 

I think the first installment was in the Feb-March 2005 issue


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 2:51 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Hundman's Virginian box car build

April through June 2005.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 3:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Hundman's Virginian box car build



Anybody know the real date of the issue these were published in? As I
recall, Mainline modeler was long history by Feb. of 2015.

Most published drawings from the formative years of our hobby were done for
one simple reason; a set of prototype drawings became available. Before the
recent spate of large drawing collections becoming available through several
museum and historical society archives, this wasn't such a common
occurrence. I would suspect Hundman got his hands on the drawings when the
N&W started transferring their historic drawing collection to the N&WHS.

Dennis Storzek



---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <eric@...> wrote :



I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I
looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the
small quantity of these cars in-service. The October 1926 ORER lists 248.



While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity
prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000
single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as
interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge
would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends.





Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN











------------------------------------
Posted by: "Don Burn" <burn@windrvr.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Don Burn
 

April through June 2005.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 3:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Hundman's Virginian box car build



Anybody know the real date of the issue these were published in? As I recall, Mainline modeler was long history by Feb. of 2015.

Most published drawings from the formative years of our hobby were done for one simple reason; a set of prototype drawings became available. Before the recent spate of large drawing collections becoming available through several museum and historical society archives, this wasn't such a common occurrence. I would suspect Hundman got his hands on the drawings when the N&W started transferring their historic drawing collection to the N&WHS.

Dennis Storzek



---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <eric@...> wrote :



I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the small quantity of these cars in-service. The October 1926 ORER lists 248.



While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000 single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends.





Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Dennis Storzek
 

Anybody know the real date of the issue these were published in? As I recall, Mainline modeler was long history by Feb. of 2015.

Most published drawings from the formative years of our hobby were done for one simple reason; a set of prototype drawings became available. Before the recent spate of large drawing collections becoming available through several museum and historical society archives, this wasn't such a common occurrence. I would suspect Hundman got his hands on the drawings when the N&W started transferring their historic drawing collection to the N&WHS.

Dennis Storzek


---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :

I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the small quantity of these cars in-service. The October 1926 ORER lists 248.

 

While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000 single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Eric Hansmann
 

I recall the article and was interested in trying the techniques, but then I looked up the car series in the 1943 ORER and was disappointed with the small quantity of these cars in-service. The October 1926 ORER lists 248.

 

While we all play favorites, I was disappointed that such a low quantity prototype was chosen for the MM article. Heck, the W&LE built 1000 single-sheathed box cars in their 27000-27999 series that were as interesting as the Virginian cars but more numerous. The modeling challenge would have been (and still is) the vertical corrugated steel ends.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 1:41 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars
Subject: [STMFC] Hundman's Virginian box car build

 




In the Feb., 2015 issue of Mainline Modeler, Bob Hundman presented an article with photos and drawings of the Virginian class BX-10 box car. In the next four issues, he published articles on scratchbuilding a model of this car, based on his plans.

 

The original article provided no research information on this series of cars, so I'm wondering if there is more information out there on these cars. I've gone through my library, and looked online, but can find nothing relevant to modeling these cars.

 

What I have found is that these cars are similar to the Katy SS cars offered in model from by Speedwitch. While the underframe (at least from Hundman's drawing), and the ends are completely different, the sides are a very close match, and the roof appears to be the same Standard Railway Equipment Co. "Standard Pressed Steel" roof.

 

So, my questions are:

 

Does anyone have more info on these Virginian cars?

 

Does anyone know of a source for drawings of this particular roof?

 

And, has anyone seen the 3 vertical post end on the Virginian cars anywhere else? 

 

TIA, 

 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment




Re: Hundman's Virginian box car build

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott Haycock asked:
"In the Feb. [2005] issue of Mainline Modeler, Bob Hundman presented an article with photos and drawings of the Virginian class BX-10 box car. In the next four issues, he published articles on scratchbuilding a model of this car, based on his plans.



The original article provided no research information on this series of cars, so I'm wondering if there is more information out there on these cars. I've gone through my library, and looked online, but can find nothing relevant to modeling these cars.

What I have found is that these cars are similar to the Katy SS cars offered in model from by Speedwitch. While the underframe (at least from Hundman's drawing), and the ends are completely different, the sides are a very close match, and the roof appears to be the same Standard Railway Equipment Co. "Standard Pressed Steel" roof."

I agree with Bill - while superficially similar to both Ted's Katy cars and the Accurail SS boxcars, these cars are significantly lower in height (IH 8 ft 6 in or 8 ft 7 in IIRC), making their overall proportions different.  Larry Smith did stand-in models of these cars using Accurail models in the October 2004 issue of Model RailroadING, and they just don't look right, especially the model of an early car with the large letterboard.  The article contains five prototype photos of these cars which may help.


Ben Hom


 

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