Date   

P&WV hopper lettering - was Gondola Load: What Is It?

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for pointing out these images, Charlie. A few Pre-Depression Era modelers find images like these and share with each other but we forget where we found the originals. The Reading gon is interesting as it still wears mid-1920s style lettering with the hardware inventory on the right side of the car. A 1937 date means these have not been repainted in about a decade.

Another image in that string reveals P&WV hoppers with original early-to-mid 1920s lettering. These are on the RIP track with many other hoppers that may be in the rebuilding process. Here's the image.

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Metal_Coils_At_Rook_004_Web.html


A few hoppers on the right have the full road name lettering across the top of the car side. I knew the long road name was applied in the early 1920s but did not know how long the lettering style was used.  


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



On November 23, 2017 at 10:23 PM "Charles Tapper charlestapper@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

This is an insurance photo for a shifted load at Avella Pa, on the P&WV , on March 27th 1937, per the P&WV Hiline website. There are two gons involved and I would say the shifted loads are most likely steel, not aluminum. Here are some links:


http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Metal_Coils_At_Avella_001_Web.html



WTB - Sunshine kit #19.1 MoP 36' boxcar

Joe Pauley
 

I'm hoping someone has a Sunshine kit #19.1 MoP 36' boxcar in their stash that they might be willing to sell. If you have one please contact me Off List at ygbsm66@.... 


Thanks, 


Joe Pauley







Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

Bill Welch
 

Not directly a response to this question Bob but the Perishable Schedules I have for the L&N, Southern, ACL and SAL have both Montreal and Toronto on their schedules. these RR's were all owners of and contracted with Fruit Growers Express for refrigerator cars and protective service.

Bill Welch


Re: Index to 1948 Industry Map of San Francisco

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

John and Friends,

Thanks for the very interesting post. I was going to comment on the products shipped or received and the number of spots for those industries listed in your example. Then I opened your spread sheet and saw you have the whole ball of wax for San Francisco and South San Francisco! Too big a job for an email, and one taking many evenings of work.

Instead I will call your attention to another source which covers this area from which I would have been quoting: THE WESTERN PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY, SACRAMENTO NORTHERN RAILWAY, TIDEWATER SOUTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY CIRCULAR NO. 167-E. Among other goodies, this is chiefly a list of EVERY customer served by the WP and its subsidiaries. Broken down by city, it has a brief summary of the products of that industry, and the number of spots. Besides customers served by the WP family, it includes customers on any connecting railroads which also served those locations, including the ATSF. The work is undated, but from the lack of Sacramento Northern listings in Oakland, I believe it was issued shortly after February 1957 when that operation ended. In fact, it may have been a update occasioned by that abandonment. The reason I balked is that for San Francisco the list runs for over 50 pages!

The original of this document is held by the California State Railroad Museum, which photocopied the book for me a number of years ago. It was $60 or so well spent, as it is a treasure to which I have referred many times.

Recently I saw reproductions of CIRCULAR 167-E listed for sale at http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Books/shippers.html . While I am not offering an endorsement or criticism of Rail Sun Unlimited, and think we should support the CSRM, the price is very attractive.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/23/17 6:40 PM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


I've written a short Blog post about the searchable, sort-able Excel version of Pete Hall's SP 1948 Industry Map of San Francisco that I've created with Pete's assistance.  

I'm grateful that Pete shared his E-bay win.  My post includes a link to download the spread sheet.

Happy Thanksgiving,

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


Re: Gondola Load: What Is It?

Charles Tapper
 

This is an insurance photo for a shifted load at Avella Pa, on the P&WV , on March 27th 1937, per the P&WV Hiline website. There are two gons involved and I would say the shifted loads are most likely steel, not aluminum. Here are some links:


http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Metal_Coils_At_Avella_001_Web.html



Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

tyesac@...
 

Drew,

Definitely SFRD!  GTW's Elston yard had direct connection to the south end of Santa Fe's Corwith yard.   I grew up next to the GTW main just south of there and blocks of SFRD reefers were common on GTW freight trains in the 1960's.   I've got to believe that many of those cars continued on to Canada.

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Nov 23, 2017 5:09 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Western Road Reefers In Canada

 
A question from Drew Bunn...
 
Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.
 
My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.
++++
Thanks
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

cptracks
 

PFE and WFE for sure. Trackside Around Ontario, 1955-1960 by Don McCartney has both on CN trains in Toronto. There may be others but I cannot make them out. The PFE cars appear yellow, double herald, the WFE appears to be yellow, wooden. 
 
Colin Riley




From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Western Road Reefers In Canada

 
Bob, Drew,

I believe that CN was independent and not part of the US pools.

You MIGHT find any of the reefers listed. The question might be better phrased which would be most likely?
That leads to the need for greater specificity. What cargos were being shipped?  What is the season being discussed? I could rationalize pretty much any of the reefers listed based on specific cargos being shipped from the US.  

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 5:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Western Road Reefers In Canada
 


A question from Drew Bunn...
 
Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.
 
My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.
++++
Thanks
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA





Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

SUVCWORR@...
 

In addition to what Bruce said, you need to know the time frame and what Canada was permitting to be imported from the US.  Were the crops quarantined?  Canada did quarantine many US crops.  If they were quarantined, then the crops would be offloaded at the point of entry and held for the required period.  The loaded into CN and CP reefers.

Rich Orr


Bob, Drew,


I believe that CN was independent and not part of the US pools.


You MIGHT find any of the reefers listed. The question might be better phrased which would be most likely?

That leads to the need for greater specificity. What cargos were being shipped?  What is the season being discussed? I could rationalize pretty much any of the reefers listed based on specific cargos being shipped from the US.  


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



A question from Drew Bunn...

 

Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.

 

My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.

++++

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA






Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

Robert kirkham
 

Its not my area, but I think the answer is all of those reporting marks would be found in Ontario and Quebec.   Atlantic Canada would depend on the part.  Obviously New Brunswick had a lot of US origin or bound traffic running through.  Cape Breton – not so much.

 

There are several videos of trains in southern Ontario in the 1950s.  If modelling that area, it’s a pretty enjoyable way to answer the question.  AN of course there are many photo books and collections, including the excellent Ian Wilson series “steam over Palmerston” and a host of others by the same author (He uses Canadian Branchlines as his web page). 

 

I think   


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 5:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Western Road Reefers In Canada

 

 

A question from Drew Bunn...

 

Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.

 

My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.

++++

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 





Index to 1948 Industry Map of San Francisco

John Barry
 



I've written a short Blog post about the searchable, sort-able Excel version of Pete Hall's SP 1948 Industry Map of San Francisco that I've created with Pete's assistance.  

I'm grateful that Pete shared his E-bay win.  My post includes a link to download the spread sheet.

Happy Thanksgiving,

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


Re: Western Road Reefers In Canada

Bruce Smith
 

Bob, Drew,


I believe that CN was independent and not part of the US pools.


You MIGHT find any of the reefers listed. The question might be better phrased which would be most likely?

That leads to the need for greater specificity. What cargos were being shipped?  What is the season being discussed? I could rationalize pretty much any of the reefers listed based on specific cargos being shipped from the US.  


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



From: STMFC@... on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 5:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Western Road Reefers In Canada
 


A question from Drew Bunn...

 

Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.

 

My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.

++++

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Western Road Reefers In Canada

thecitrusbelt@...
 

A question from Drew Bunn...

 

Just wondering if anyone could tell me which of the western roads' reefers I might find on a Canadian National train in the 1950s. Santa Fe? WP? GN? Was CN part of the PFE/WFE/FGE pools? All I seem to find is information on the CN reefer fleet.

 

My interest is in Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.

++++

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Gondola Load: What Is It?

Allen Rueter
 

I would also agree with coiled Al, but never say never. Having worked in Cold Rolled Finishing,
loading eye2sky happens when the width gets narrow relative to its height. It also happens when the coiled sheet gets thin and the coil would sag. eye2sky also tended to ship on pallets, unless shipper & receiver had the pincher hook.  Coils that went through the slitter, got wrapped by a lot of bands.
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO
Gary Works, 73,75,76




Re: UP Boxcar Paint and Lettering

Bryian Sones
 

For those of you planning to use the U.P Marklin/Trix Boxcars that represent the B-24 and B-50-27 classes for the U.P.  and might be unaware, the car body matches the prototype all but the roof and the floor. Pay close attention to the Slogan placement on these cars and the gothic lettered cars. There are several Marklin/Trix cars that have the slogans on the wrong side and the Gothic "O" may be incorrect. I'm not sure if Marklin ever corrected this in later runs but I know I had to re-decal some of my cars several years ago.    




Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA.


On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 8:29 PM, "Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 

While I won't debate Tony Thompson's words regarding the law, UP has continued to put the Overland Banner Medallion on a very few boxcars every few years up until at least a decade ago.  I don't keep track of contemporary railroading very well.

I would also remind readers of this list that my clinic from seven years ago about UP Freight Car Painting & Lettering is on my SmugMug site at:

While I do not mention the Overland Banner trademark protection medallions in that clinic because they are so rare, there is plenty of info about common UP painting and lettering practices that may be of interest to all readers of this group.

I plan to give an updated version of that clinic at RPM Chicagoland 2018.


Hope you all have a Happy Thanksgiving,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA





Re: Gondola Load: What Is It?

 

Would also agree with coiled aluminum. Have seen many many coil steel loads & have never seen them loaded on end. They were always on their sides.


Re: UP Boxcar Paint and Lettering

Tony Thompson
 

As Tim O'Connor observed, we know from their contest with MRH how solid is UP's grasp of trademark law.
Tony Thompson 


On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:29 PM, Dick Harley dick.harley4up@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


While I won't debate Tony Thompson's words regarding the law, UP has continued to put the Overland Banner Medallion on a very few boxcars every few years up until at least a decade ago.  I don't keep track of contemporary railroading very well.

I would also remind readers of this list that my clinic from seven years ago about UP Freight Car Painting & Lettering is on my SmugMug site at:

While I do not mention the Overland Banner trademark protection medallions in that clinic because they are so rare, there is plenty of info about common UP painting and lettering practices that may be of interest to all readers of this group.

I plan to give an updated version of that clinic at RPM Chicagoland 2018.


Hope you all have a Happy Thanksgiving,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Re: UP Boxcar Paint and Lettering

Dick Harley
 


While I won't debate Tony Thompson's words regarding the law, UP has continued to put the Overland Banner Medallion on a very few boxcars every few years up until at least a decade ago.  I don't keep track of contemporary railroading very well.

I would also remind readers of this list that my clinic from seven years ago about UP Freight Car Painting & Lettering is on my SmugMug site at:

While I do not mention the Overland Banner trademark protection medallions in that clinic because they are so rare, there is plenty of info about common UP painting and lettering practices that may be of interest to all readers of this group.

I plan to give an updated version of that clinic at RPM Chicagoland 2018.


Hope you all have a Happy Thanksgiving,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Re: Soo Line double door

Gene Deimling
 

Based upon the photos I have, the control valve is adjacent to the reservoir on the left side.  

Gene Deimling


Re: FT B units was Soo Line double door Even Car Numbers Only

 

I believe the NYO&W did the same thing with their normal FTs (a drawbar tender)

Thanks!
Brian Ehni
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:01 PM, Craig Zeni clzeni@gmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:42 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

2g. Re: [STMFC] Re: Soo Line double door• ¢â‚ ‚´Even Car Numbers Only
Posted by: Edwardsutorik@aol.com spsalso
Date: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm ((PST))

GN did the even/odd thing with their 4 unit FT's. Even numbers had couplers between their B units, odd numbers were fully drawbarred. And about 10 feet shorter, overall.
There were two types of FT B units; the 'regular' and by far the most common is what came as the drawbarred A/B sets (we won't discuss the ATSF units and their couplers which were the same length as these B units). These B units had an overhang on the coupler end. There were also FTSB or Short B units; these were about 4' shorter, all missing the overhang. They were delivered in drawbarred A-SB-A sets (exception - the four A-B-B-A sets to the Southern)...no couplers on the B units. Rock Island, DL&W, GN, MT&StL and Southern were the buyers of the FTSB. Some of the roads reconfigured their sets; the DL&W made up A-SB-SB-A sets with all drawbarred. I suspect the GN did the same at some point.

And to prove that there is a prototype for everything if one looks hard enough...the DL&W realized that if one of the A units on their 4 A-SB-A sets that they in effect lost the full set of locomotives. To that end, they took the tender from a retired steam loco which of course has a draw bar on one end and a coupler on the other. The tender had sheet metal added to match the roof contours of the diesels, and thus allowed the railroad to operate the 'good' 2,700 hp worth of A-SB power. And thus, one had what many of us had early in our model railroad lives....a coupler adapter car. And it allowed the DL&W to pull their Steam Era Freight Cars.

Craig Zeni, FT nerd
Esoterica, NC



------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



FT B units was Soo Line double door Even Car Numbers Only

Craig Zeni
 

On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:42 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

2g. Re: [STMFC] Re: Soo Line double door• ¢â‚ ‚´Even Car Numbers Only
Posted by: Edwardsutorik@aol.com spsalso
Date: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm ((PST))

GN did the even/odd thing with their 4 unit FT's. Even numbers had couplers between their B units, odd numbers were fully drawbarred. And about 10 feet shorter, overall.
There were two types of FT B units; the 'regular' and by far the most common is what came as the drawbarred A/B sets (we won't discuss the ATSF units and their couplers which were the same length as these B units). These B units had an overhang on the coupler end. There were also FTSB or Short B units; these were about 4' shorter, all missing the overhang. They were delivered in drawbarred A-SB-A sets (exception - the four A-B-B-A sets to the Southern)...no couplers on the B units. Rock Island, DL&W, GN, MT&StL and Southern were the buyers of the FTSB. Some of the roads reconfigured their sets; the DL&W made up A-SB-SB-A sets with all drawbarred. I suspect the GN did the same at some point.

And to prove that there is a prototype for everything if one looks hard enough...the DL&W realized that if one of the A units on their 4 A-SB-A sets that they in effect lost the full set of locomotives. To that end, they took the tender from a retired steam loco which of course has a draw bar on one end and a coupler on the other. The tender had sheet metal added to match the roof contours of the diesels, and thus allowed the railroad to operate the 'good' 2,700 hp worth of A-SB power. And thus, one had what many of us had early in our model railroad lives....a coupler adapter car. And it allowed the DL&W to pull their Steam Era Freight Cars.

Craig Zeni, FT nerd
Esoterica, NC

31381 - 31400 of 185219