Date   

Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Andy Laurent
 

Jeff,
As one who deals with reciprocal switching in 1:1 on a regular basis, I will try to shed some light on this topic (often one of the most confusing for the shipping, and general, public):  Reciprocal switching allows 'commercial' access to a facility, from the closest interchange with the other railroad (most often called a line-haul carrier).  The switch carrier physically moves the freight cars from the interchange with the line-haul railroad, and spots them at the customer.  When the car is ready, the customer can submit billing (bill of lading - loaded or empty, depending on industry) to the switch carrier or the line-haul carrier and the railroads take it from there (switch carrier pulls car from industry, delivers it to interchange with the line-haul carrier where it goes on about its journey).

Reciprocal switching is allowed purely by the actual serving railroad, or by ICC/STB action.  It is usually confined to the limits of the 'switching district' for a given station (some were confined to a small rural town with an interchange; Chicago's was over 70 miles around). It is often done for the benefit of the shipper to get them access to more than one origin carrier.  In the pre-Staggers days, rates were equalized between 2 points, the only variation was the route/railroads involved (and their associated freight revenue divisions).  Post-Staggers, each route could have a different freight rate. 

Andy L.
Cedar Rapids, IA


brass freight cars on Ebay

Tim O'Connor
 

W&R Rio Grande 47 foot, 70 ton general service gondola
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322917251383

Challenger Great Northern express refrigerator car, painted Empire Builder
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322917274595

All my auctions can be found here
https://www.ebay.com/sch/timothyoconnor/m.html

Thanks!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Hatched Stock Car

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <SUVCWORR@...> wrote :

Feed troughs. 

Rich Orr
=======================

Jeff, 
Early in the twentieth century, before the "hog law" (the real one, the one that put a limit on the number of hours livestock could be kept in the cars) there was a whole spate of patented "humane" stockcars with provisions to feed and water the stock in the cars. They all became obsolete after the time stock could be confined was limited.

Dennis Stoezek


Re: Hatched Stock Car

Douglas Harding
 

Jeff those boxes were designed to hold feed and hay. Before the 1906 Livestock 28 hr law many railroads attempted to feed and water livestock while in transit and thus needed a way to carry supplies of feed. The passage of the 28 hr law, requiring unloading, feed & rest every 28 hrs, eliminated any attempts by the railroads to feed while in transit. Prior to that there were many stockcar designs with feed bunks, water troughs, etc built into stockcars in attempts to provide humane transportation. The CNW had quite a few of these early car designs. The CNWHS has another photo showing the side of CNW 89161 with the metal water troughs clearly visible. They were built into the side of the car and designed to swivel so they could dump/empty.

 

The doors on the end are more difficult. In early years they no doubt were intended for the passage of livestock care takers, esp before 1906 when feeding in transit was attempted. But it was dangerous to be in a loaded moving car. So I imagine the doors were then used only when standing still, perhaps to enter from the end of the car for the purpose of prodding animals to leave the car. In later years these doors were also handy for loading/unloading extremely long items like lumber or poles. The lumber was still loaded through the large side door, the end door was an opening to stick the end of the board through so it could be drawn back past the side door in a reverse move. The two doors can be seen on single deck cars.

 

I cannot help with the term “special”. It can been seen on a variety of stockcars.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Hatched Stock Car

Steve SANDIFER
 

Those are either Palace cars or rack cars. Either way they carry feed and water so the animals did not have to be stopped for rest and water. Did not work out well, so discontinued in the early 1900s.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 10:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Hatched Stock Car

 

 

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Re: Hatched Stock Car

suvcworr <SUVCWORR@...>
 

Feed troughs. 

Rich Orr



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Jeff Eggert' ophoto@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 12/1/17 23:16 (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Hatched Stock Car

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Hatched Stock Car

Jeff Eggert
 

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Re: Santa Fe Reefer Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

1956 photo SFRD 33475 (Rr-25) has a Morton rb
1965 photo SFRD 10356 (Rr-46) has a metal rb (can't identify)

^ these are the only two SWING DOOR SFRD reefers I've seen with metal
running boards

Tim O'Connor



I recently picked up an etched Transco running board for a Santa Fe Rr32 reefer. When these cars were initially rebuilt they came with a wood running board.  Does anyone know when the wood might have been replaced?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Psrdie


Santa Fe Reefer Question

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


I recently picked up an etched 
Transco running board for a Santa Fe Rr32 reefer. When these cars were initially rebuilt they came with a wood running board.  Does anyone know when the wood might have been replaced?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Psrdie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: Dump cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

I have an 8mm movie circa 1958 of a mixed train on the ATSF with an air dump behind the engine. When it came to a particular spot, they uncoupled the rest of the train, pulled up onto an embankment, and dumped the rip-rap. Then they backed onto the train and continued on their way. I also have copies of orders from John Moore collection where air dumps of sand were delivered to stock pens along the Pawhuska branch for bedding the stock cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Dump cars

 

 

On the Santa Fe, we moved a lot of ballast and riprap in addition to dirt.

Larry Buell


Re: B&O 3086 hopper

Jim Mischke
 

I have this photo, it was taken by the late Paul Dunn in his hometown Zanesville, Ohio during 1955.  Car is a leased CNJ nine panel ribbed twin hopper, freshly repainted in B&O lettering.  Billboard "B&O" with large ampersand was superseded that year by a small ampersand.


This car was in the second leased CNJ hopper group, from 1955-1961.  Lease lasted about five years, all cars returned to CNJ by late 1961.  The lease was five years long, it took time to locate and pull them all from B&O service, some cars straggled on B&O property for a little longer than five years due to these logistics.   Some returned hoppers were relettered CNJ and returned to service, most not due to age and condition.


Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

Q: Was coal from mine to offsite washing/crushing plant to end customer in any way similar to grain storage to flour mill to end customer? IIRC there were either special tariffs or waybills for the later.


       It would fit the definition of an in-transit processing, but unless the tariffs for coal before and after washing are significantly different, there would be no advantage. But I don't know for sure.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Dump cars

Larry Buell
 

On the Santa Fe, we moved a lot of ballast and riprap in addition to dirt.

Larry Buell


Re: LV Oak Island Yard 1939

Layout Tour
 

Ben & Claus

If you click on the photo, Shorpy gives credit to the photographer Arthur Rothstein and the Farm Security Administration, but they don’t mention that it’s available for free from the Library of Congress or the link to it which I wasn’t aware of.  Thanks for that link.

Chuck Davis


Re: One wonky boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


If I'm not mistaken, ACY 3024 has a beautiful Klasing hand brake wheel too.

Tim




I took a photo of ACY 3024 in San Diego circa 1977, probably on its way to the museum in Campo or being stored for later movement. If anyone needs same, I will share an e-version. PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF-LIST (I will not respond unless the request is off-list).

I wondered why this car was there. Now I know. Thanks much, Eric.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


Re: One wonky boxcar

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

I took a photo of ACY 3024 in San Diego circa 1977, probably on its way to the museum in Campo or being stored for later movement. If anyone needs same, I will share an e-version. PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF-LIST (I will not respond unless the request is off-list).

I wondered why this car was there. Now I know. Thanks much, Eric.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/1/17 2:12 PM, Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Tim, Scott, Eric...

Yes, there were two additional series that had wood ends, similar or identical side patterns, and the same internal dimensions :

AC&Y 3000-3149 wood ends with 4 posts, leased 3-1941, but delivery extended through war reaching 149 as 3001-3149 by 7-1945. Lease renewed 2-1963, 15 active in 1-1970, and #3142, last active car retired 10-1971. Five cars reside at Mid-Continent: #3011, 3016, 3048, 3061, 3081, and one, #3024, at Pacific Southwest Railroad Musem, Campo, CA.

AC&Y 3175-3199 wood ends with 4 posts, renumbered 1959 from MRS 8000-8024? This is circumstantial based on ORER counts and dimensions. Lease renewal 2-1963. 19 cars active 7-1965, 1 in 1-1970, gone by 7-1970.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:34 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Nevermind. I just found Eric Lombard’s latest post on this matter.

 

And so it goes.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 




Has anyone referenced an ORER from this time frame to determine if these AC&Y cars are Mather owned? Check the notes of the AC&Y entry for repair instructions and/or billing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 



Eric

I have a photo scan from Soph Marty (deceased) of ACY #3003, which appears to be
an identical car except that it has wood ends. Were some cars from the #3003 "series"
rebuilt and renumbered as 3150-3174?

Also found these scans from Ebay: #3044, #3075, #3086. All of them match #3003 in
design. Some photos are late 1950's so they do overlap 3150-3174.

Tim O'Connor



 Good Morning, Scott...
 My resources indicate this car, AC&Y 3152, is as you first suspected, is a Mather car and is
 out of AC&Y 3150-3174, 25 cars, leased 1954. The lease was renewed in Feb. 1962. In Jan. 1970
 there were 10 cars in service and the last, #3153, was retired Oct. 1971. Two cars, #3151, 3161,
 were donated to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, North Freedom, WI. By 2016 they were being used
 as storage sheds at that location. I agree, amalgam of Improved Dreadnaught ends coupled a
 single-wood-sheathed construction and a unique post and brace pattern are indeed "Wonky".

 
Eric Lombard


    h ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/222734320396

 





Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Dave Nelson
 

I looked at that report… very interesting.



Q: Was coal from mine to offsite washing/crushing plant to end customer in any way similar to grain storage to flour mill to end customer? IIRC there were either special tariffs or waybills for the later.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]

On 11/30/2017 9:52 PM, Allen Rueter allen_282@yahoo.com [STMFC] wrote:



Jeff

search for "coal report of illinois"1955 at babel.hathitrust.org

It does show mines served by more than one railroad.



-- Allen Rueter StLouis MO













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: One wonky boxcar

Eric Lombard
 

Tim, Scott, Eric...

Yes, there were two additional series that had wood ends, similar or identical side patterns, and the same internal dimensions :

AC&Y 3000-3149 wood ends with 4 posts, leased 3-1941, but delivery extended through war reaching 149 as 3001-3149 by 7-1945. Lease renewed 2-1963, 15 active in 1-1970, and #3142, last active car retired 10-1971. Five cars reside at Mid-Continent: #3011, 3016, 3048, 3061, 3081, and one, #3024, at Pacific Southwest Railroad Musem, Campo, CA.

AC&Y 3175-3199 wood ends with 4 posts, renumbered 1959 from MRS 8000-8024? This is circumstantial based on ORER counts and dimensions. Lease renewal 2-1963. 19 cars active 7-1965, 1 in 1-1970, gone by 7-1970.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:34 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Nevermind. I just found Eric Lombard’s latest post on this matter.

 

And so it goes.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 




Has anyone referenced an ORER from this time frame to determine if these AC&Y cars are Mather owned? Check the notes of the AC&Y entry for repair instructions and/or billing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 



Eric

I have a photo scan from Soph Marty (deceased) of ACY #3003, which appears to be
an identical car except that it has wood ends. Were some cars from the #3003 "series"
rebuilt and renumbered as 3150-3174?

Also found these scans from Ebay: #3044, #3075, #3086. All of them match #3003 in
design. Some photos are late 1950's so they do overlap 3150-3174.

Tim O'Connor



 Good Morning, Scott...
 My resources indicate this car, AC&Y 3152, is as you first suspected, is a Mather car and is
 out of AC&Y 3150-3174, 25 cars, leased 1954. The lease was renewed in Feb. 1962. In Jan. 1970
 there were 10 cars in service and the last, #3153, was retired Oct. 1971. Two cars, #3151, 3161,
 were donated to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, North Freedom, WI. By 2016 they were being used
 as storage sheds at that location. I agree, amalgam of Improved Dreadnaught ends coupled a
 single-wood-sheathed construction and a unique post and brace pattern are indeed "Wonky".

 
Eric Lombard


    h ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/222734320396

 




Re: One wonky boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Nevermind. I just found Eric Lombard’s latest post on this matter.

 

And so it goes.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 




Has anyone referenced an ORER from this time frame to determine if these AC&Y cars are Mather owned? Check the notes of the AC&Y entry for repair instructions and/or billing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 



Eric

I have a photo scan from Soph Marty (deceased) of ACY #3003, which appears to be
an identical car except that it has wood ends. Were some cars from the #3003 "series"
rebuilt and renumbered as 3150-3174?

Also found these scans from Ebay: #3044, #3075, #3086. All of them match #3003 in
design. Some photos are late 1950's so they do overlap 3150-3174.

Tim O'Connor



 Good Morning, Scott...
 My resources indicate this car, AC&Y 3152, is as you first suspected, is a Mather car and is
 out of AC&Y 3150-3174, 25 cars, leased 1954. The lease was renewed in Feb. 1962. In Jan. 1970
 there were 10 cars in service and the last, #3153, was retired Oct. 1971. Two cars, #3151, 3161,
 were donated to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, North Freedom, WI. By 2016 they were being used
 as storage sheds at that location. I agree, amalgam of Improved Dreadnaught ends coupled a
 single-wood-sheathed construction and a unique post and brace pattern are indeed "Wonky".

 
Eric Lombard


    h ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/222734320396

 



Re: One wonky boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Has anyone referenced an ORER from this time frame to determine if these AC&Y cars are Mather owned? Check the notes of the AC&Y entry for repair instructions and/or billing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 12:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] One wonky boxcar

 



Eric

I have a photo scan from Soph Marty (deceased) of ACY #3003, which appears to be
an identical car except that it has wood ends. Were some cars from the #3003 "series"
rebuilt and renumbered as 3150-3174?

Also found these scans from Ebay: #3044, #3075, #3086. All of them match #3003 in
design. Some photos are late 1950's so they do overlap 3150-3174.

Tim O'Connor



 Good Morning, Scott...
 My resources indicate this car, AC&Y 3152, is as you first suspected, is a Mather car and is
 out of AC&Y 3150-3174, 25 cars, leased 1954. The lease was renewed in Feb. 1962. In Jan. 1970
 there were 10 cars in service and the last, #3153, was retired Oct. 1971. Two cars, #3151, 3161,
 were donated to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, North Freedom, WI. By 2016 they were being used
 as storage sheds at that location. I agree, amalgam of Improved Dreadnaught ends coupled a
 single-wood-sheathed construction and a unique post and brace pattern are indeed "Wonky".

 
Eric Lombard


    h ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/222734320396

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