Date   

Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

Tony Thompson
 

Jerry Michels wrote:

 
Considering some of the higher-ups in the UP freely pilfered company records after the merger, I doubt they still exist 1000 feet underground in Hutchinson..

   Interesting comment, since Don Snoddy, then director of the UP Museum, told me that upon taking possession of MP offices everywhere, most records had been removed and could "not be located." Seems odd that UP people could ransack offices while they still belonged to MP. Don's charter was to identify and preserve MP records, but found awfully few remaining. Incidentally, Don was also in charge of the same job when the SP takeover occurred, and he said relatively few things were missing.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

Jerry Michels
 

As a complete aside. These mines, as they were mined out, were used to store many corporate records in the event of a nuclear attack. The Missouri Pacific corporate records are/were stored there.  I was privileged to visit them for three days in the 1980s when working on my caboose book and before lawyers got in on the act and closed access to the records because of the employee records stored there. Tons of corporate records for the Mopac and most if not all of its predecessor and merged lines, and even full erection diagrams for MoPac steam locomotives stored in aluminum tubes.  Considering some of the higher-ups in the UP freely pilfered company records after the merger, I doubt they still exist 1000 feet underground in Hutchinson..

Jerry Michels


Re: GM&O 26300-26999 series info help

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

Thanks Ed
Don Ford 
Cameron Missouri


Re: GM&O 26300-26999 series info help

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jan 15, 2018, at 9:25 PM, ford.donald77@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Group

Going thru some old kit that have been in storage came a upon a CB&T car #26451 with the broken wing scheme - foobe or not?

Also a GM&O #24579 End Cab model double door 40-foot car broken wing scheme - smae question

It think the 26300-2699 series had black roof, ends, underframes and trucks when built did this carry on to the broken wing scheme or were they all one color?

Don,
GM&O 26300-26999: 700 cars, built ca. 12-52 by ACF, lot no. 3663. 

Postwar 40’-6” AAR box cars with 10-panel riveted sides, 6’ door openings, 4-5-5 Improved Youngstown doors, 1948-1954 version Improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel roof, Ajax (first 300) & Miner (last 400) hand brakes, Kerrigan running boards & brake steps, A-3 Ride Control trucks. These cars are listed on the appropriate roster of cars with similar features downloadable on the STMFC web site.

Paint specs from the ACF bill of materials: Freight car red - sides; black car cement - ends, roof, u/f; black - brake parts, trucks; white - side stencils; aluminum - end stencils.

The 24579 is likely beyond the scope of this forum. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


Those Howe truss cars were THE signature car of the SLSF for many years.
An interesting feature of the wood sheathed cars was that the top 12" or
so (probably more) of the side sheathing was originally steel. So when they
were rebuilt (over 90 still in service in 1972) only the lower part of the sides
needed to be replaced, leaving a horizontal seam about 5/6 of the way up the
side.

Tim O'Connor
=======================

That was pretty common on single sheathed cars built in the late twenties; the last couple series of Soo Line cars have that also. Instead of triangular gussets between the posts and plate, the band of steel, which was relatively thick, 1/4" or so, formed a continuous gusset. Since it was heavier than the steel the Frisco used to sheath the rest of the side, it was left in place during the re-build.

I wonder how the Frisco handled the lining on these rebuilds, or if they are bare steel inside?

Dennis Storzek


More ULTX Tank Cars

rwitt_2000
 

Photos from the Presidential Commission on firemen in the Cornell University Library

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20864803


Bob Witt


GM&O 26300-26999 series info help

ford.donald77@...
 

Group

Going thru some old kit that have been in storage came a upon a CB&T car #26451 with the broken wing scheme - foobe or not?


Also a GM&O #24579 End Cab model double door 40-foot car broken wing scheme - smae question


It think the 26300-2699 series had black roof, ends, underframes and trucks when built did this carry on to the broken wing scheme or were they all one color?


Thank in advance

Don Ford Cameron Missouri


Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Eric Hansmann
 

Of course, this is dependent upon Era. I feel the sawtooth single sheathed box cars are a signature Frisco car, but I’m focused on 1926. Although there were only 1000 of those, the large FRISCO lettering attracted the eye. 

YMMV. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On Jan 15, 2018, at 8:31 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Those Howe truss cars were THE signature car of the SLSF for many years.
An interesting feature of the wood sheathed cars was that the top 12" or
so (probably more) of the side sheathing was originally steel. So when they
were rebuilt (over 90 still in service in 1972) only the lower part of the sides
needed to be replaced, leaving a horizontal seam about 5/6 of the way up the
side.

SLSF also had taller Howe truss cars, 10 feet IH instead of 8 feet 6 inches.
I don't know of any models for the taller cars.

Tim O'Connor


 Ed, would you not say that the photo referenced appears to be exactly that, steel sides?

 Schuyler, Yes, I agree the car has steel sheathing. Regards, Ed Hawkins


Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Tim O'Connor
 


Those Howe truss cars were THE signature car of the SLSF for many years.
An interesting feature of the wood sheathed cars was that the top 12" or
so (probably more) of the side sheathing was originally steel. So when they
were rebuilt (over 90 still in service in 1972) only the lower part of the sides
needed to be replaced, leaving a horizontal seam about 5/6 of the way up the
side.

SLSF also had taller Howe truss cars, 10 feet IH instead of 8 feet 6 inches.
I don't know of any models for the taller cars.

Tim O'Connor


 Ed, would you not say that the photo referenced appears to be exactly that, steel sides?

 Schuyler, Yes, I agree the car has steel sheathing. Regards, Ed Hawkins


Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jan 15, 2018, at 3:36 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Ed, would you not say that the photo referenced
appears to be exactly that, steel sides?

Schuyler,
Yes, I agree the car has steel sheathing.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Schuyler Larrabee
 

"Numerous cars were later re-sheathed with steel
side sheets while retaining the Howe truss
structure.

"Regards,

"Ed Hawkins"



Ed, would you not say that the photo referenced
appears to be exactly that, steel sides?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 12:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Frisco Boxcar 163270







On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:59 AM,
thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com
<mailto:thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com> [STMFC]
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:





Here is a link to a photo from the Cornell
University Library Digital Collections:


<https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20
988258>
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:209
88258



Scroll over the photo to enlarge it.



I'm no expert on Frisco boxcars (or a lot of other
topics, for that matter) so what do we see here?
Was this a common car for its era or somewhat
rare?



Bob,

Short answer is very common for cars built during
the mid-1920s to 1930. It's one of Frisco's
single-sheathed Howe truss cars that Sunshine
Models offered in HO scale early-on. A number of
other railroads had very similar cars. Refer to
Sunshine's flyers at
www.sunshinekits.com/flyersbyroad.html
<http://www.sunshinekits.com/flyersbyroad.html> .



Also, Frisco's prototype cars were covered in RP
CYC Volumes 1 & 2 with articles by Joe Pennington.
Numerous cars were later re-sheathed with steel
side sheets while retaining the Howe truss
structure.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins


Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

Richard Townsend
 

Volume 2011, No. 2 of The Rocket, the publication of the RITS, has an article titled, "Hauling Salt on the Rock Island" by Bill Riebe. It includes the photo at issue here. The car was built in 1927 by Bettendorf Car Company and rebuilt in November 1953.The RI converted 35 SS cars in 1952-53 specifically to haul salt, which according to the article is "very corrosive to metals and quite sensitive to moisture" and therefore required the cars to be insulated and have "nonmetallic corrosion-free interior surfaces." The insulation was two layers of Celotex covered with an interior layer of wood and was about 2.5 to 3 inches thick. The original sliding doors were replaced with 5 foot by 6.5 foot reefer-type hinged plug doors. The cars were lettered on the doors, "SALT LOADING ONLY WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO HUTCHINSON, KANSAS." All were off the roster by 1963. 

The article includes a photo of RI 133069 as well and suggests that these cars would be a good kitbashing project. I agree, but's not as simple as it might appear at first. The cars had 3/4 dreadnaught ends and it looks like a form of radial roof as well. The doors have only two hinges per side instead of the three we are used to seeing. Someone more familiar with RI freight cars might be able to provide more detailed info. The cars are from the 13300-133999 series.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hirt whirt@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Jan 15, 2018 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Interesting Rock Island salt car

 
Scott,

I see the picture is sold as being taken at Hutchinson Kansas. Since the
early 1900s, there have been very large salt mines in that area.
Hutchinson was served by the Rock Island. There is even a salt mine
museum in Hutchinson. As an aside, the excavated area of the salt mines
serves as an underground warehouse and where many Hollywood movie
pristine prints/negatives and TV shows are stored.

The excavated areas around Kansas City exist from limestone mining and
there are several large underground storage facilities in the Kansas
City area.

Bill Hirt

On 1/15/2018 12:07 AM, repairman87@... [STMFC] wrote:
> Found an interesting photo of Rock Island salt car on Ebay. Anybody have any background on it? Was this a company service car or did they deliver salt to customers in it? I think they mined salt around Kansas City but could be wrong there. Was this car built in this configuration or was it a modification the shops did to it? To bad the photo is with the doors open.
>
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302575596277
>
> Scott McDonald
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: repairman87@...
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>


Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

Edward
 

The white stuff in a little pile at the door sill looks like it could be bulk salt. There seems to be boards inside which might be set against the door opening when loading.

Salt is heavy. A 45 lb sack of it used for salt water swimming pools seems quite small compared to the heft required to pick one up and pour it in. A 40 ton load of bulk salt in that car may only have been about 4' or so deep.
 
Salt is corrosive. A wood bodied car outfitted like that made economical sense for a railroad in shipping bulk salt. Salt in time will eat away at steel, literally dissolving it. 

Salt is a descant. It readily absorbs moisture and will cake up, becoming like a rock, unless treated.
The easy-flowing table salt we use has been treated to reduce clumping or caking. "When it rains, it pours" said Morton Salt's ads over many decades.

An older, single-sheathed wood body 40 ton capacity car outfitted for bulk salt service would have been fully insulated and sheathed inside (ceiling, ends, sides and floor). This would make the body water tight and reasonably air tight to limit condensation inside, along with tight-fitting insulated doors to keep salt loads from caking while in transit.

The car in the photo appears to have rather small interior dimensions for width and height. A bit hard to tell which is 8'1" and 7'1". Lining and sealing was a relatively inexpensive modification for what may have been a  limited trade for a few shippers.  

Covered hoppers would eventually handle the bulk salt trade, being well sealed from weather and having
special coatings or liners inside, to protect the steel body.

Ed Bommer

   


Re: Frisco Boxcar 163270

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:59 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Here is a  link to a photo from the Cornell University Library Digital Collections:


Scroll over the photo to enlarge it.

I'm no expert on Frisco boxcars (or a lot of other topics, for that matter) so what do we see here? Was this a common car for its era or somewhat rare?

Bob,
Short answer is very common for cars built during the mid-1920s to 1930. It’s one of Frisco’s single-sheathed Howe truss cars that Sunshine Models offered in HO scale early-on. A number of other railroads had very similar cars. Refer to Sunshine’s flyers at www.sunshinekits.com/flyersbyroad.html.

Also, Frisco's prototype cars were covered in RP CYC Volumes 1 & 2 with articles by Joe Pennington. Numerous cars were later re-sheathed with steel side sheets while retaining the Howe truss structure.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Another up for bid

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Is the load removable?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 10:31 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Another up for bid





https://www.ebay.com/itm/112756683314?ul_noapp=true



Started with a gon, may end with one.

Clark Propst







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Frisco Boxcar 163270

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here is a  link to a photo from the Cornell University Library Digital Collections:

 

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988258

 

Scroll over the photo to enlarge it.

 

I'm no expert on Frisco boxcars (or a lot of other topics, for that matter) so what do we see here? Was this a common car for its era or somewhat rare?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: GATX 57624

Tony Thompson
 

Dan Smith wrote:

>>Great shot. Reweigh 8-57. Wonderful chalk marks along edge of running boards at both ends along with stapled cards. That would be a neat detail to model. <<

      Yes, the edge of a wood running board was very commonly used to attach route cards on tank cars. Both cars visible here have them. A detail seldom modeled, though I have been advocating it in clinics

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

William Hirt
 

Scott,

I see the picture is sold as being taken at Hutchinson Kansas. Since the early 1900s, there have been very large salt mines in that area. Hutchinson was served by the Rock Island. There is even a salt mine museum in Hutchinson. As an aside, the excavated area of the salt mines serves as an underground warehouse and where many Hollywood movie pristine prints/negatives and TV shows are stored.

The excavated areas around Kansas City exist from limestone mining and there are several large underground storage facilities in the Kansas City area.

Bill Hirt

On 1/15/2018 12:07 AM, repairman87@hotmail.com [STMFC] wrote:
Found an interesting photo of Rock Island salt car on Ebay. Anybody have any background on it? Was this a company service car or did they deliver salt to customers in it? I think they mined salt around Kansas City but could be wrong there. Was this car built in this configuration or was it a modification the shops did to it? To bad the photo is with the doors open.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302575596277

Scott McDonald

------------------------------------
Posted by: repairman87@hotmail.com
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




Re: Interesting Rock Island salt car

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <repairman87@...> wrote :

Found an interesting photo of Rock Island salt car on Ebay. Anybody have any background on it? Was this a company service car or did they deliver salt to customers in it? I think they mined salt around Kansas City but could be wrong there. Was this car built in this configuration or was it a modification the shops did to it? To bad the photo is with the doors open.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302575596277

Scott McDonald
==================

The car is marked "XI" which is the AAR mechanical designation for an insulated boxcar. The paint patch to the left of the reporting marks looks suspiciously like some signed service lettering has been painted out. It looks like the car was rebuilt with insulation for service that needed protection from freezing. The Soo Line had a small fleet of XI's rebuilt from 40' automobile cars, assigned to Campbell Soup in Chicago, as I recall. This car may have been for the same customer, or similar service.

There is no need to use an insulated car for salt.

Dennis Storzek


Another up for bid

Clark Propst
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112756683314?ul_noapp=true


Started with a gon, may end with one.

Clark Propst


28721 - 28740 of 183520