Date   
Resin Car Works Semi-scale coupler boxes

Eric Hansmann
 

Resin Car Works has semi-scale resin cast HO scale coupler boxes available. Check out the latest blog post for details!

 

http://resincarworks.com/decals_parts.htm

 

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy

 

Re: ATSF reefer circular

James Babcock
 

Paul,
I also would like a copy.
Jim


--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 1/20/18, Matthew Metoyer mmetoyer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATSF reefer circular
To: STMFC@...
Cc: "Paul Catapano" <pc66ot@...>
Date: Saturday, January 20, 2018, 12:01 AM

Paul,
Your attachment was stripped from the STMFC
group, however I'd like a copy, if you don't
mind.
Thanks,
Matthew Metoyer

Santa Maria
On Jan 19, 2018 5:59 PM,
"Paul Catapano pc66ot@...
[STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
wrote:

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
What, if anything, could be backhauled in an ice bunker meat refrigerator car?

       Anything that would fit. But a reefer was smaller than a box car, restricting some loads. Remember that a packer-owned meat car was under the direction of the owner and could not be confiscated for back hauls.

Were such backhauls common or the exception?

    I have not seen statistics but would expect that backhauls in packer-owned cars would be quite unusual.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


"Anything that would fit" Tony writes for a meat reefer back haul. Tony I don't believe you mean that 
as I'm certain anything used as a backhaul load in a meat reefer would have to be "Clean Lading".
Can you see bagged lime, fertilizer, coal or bricks being backhauled in a meat reefer? I don't think 
so. Better yet, how about raw leather hides.

Cordially, Don Valentine





Re: Tru-color paint

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <clzeni@...> wrote :


My experience has been hit and miss with Tru Color. I've had issues with it adhering to clean styrene/ABS shells. It certainly won't adhere to Scalecoat 2 paint where I used it to match the decals I had that were made to match AccuPaint. The Tru Color matched perfectly but wasn't happy sticking to the base paint. I'm not a fan of the Tru Color product. I did, however, recently try some Tamiya paints and was mightily impressed - this coming from a hardened Scalecoat user :)

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Jeepers Craig, I've used Scalecoat since 1968 and have always been happy with it. Still have one good
bottle from the original producer at 888 Velmont Ave. in Birmingham, AL. That said I began using 
Accu-Paint as well as soon as George Bishop dropped having Floquil mix his colors and went to the firm
which I think supplied the inks for his decal as well. Tru-Color is the same paint from the same supplier and handles the same way. Based on the years of my own experience I'm surprised you are having difficulty
with Tru-Color if you are happy with Scalecoat as I use the same techniques and thinners with both and have no complaints with either.

Cordially, Don Valentine
 

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Tim--Beer was a primary cargo, not a backhaul. In the 1950's, and before, beer was shipped all over the country from brewers' single sited breweries. Anheuser Busch shipped Bud from St. Louis to everywhere in SLRX bunkerless insulated boxcars. Sunshine had a model of one. Tichy has decals which I assume were obtained from Jerry Glow. Likewise Schlitz was shipped all over the country from Milwaukee in DSDX wood and steel bunkerless cars. Tichy has these decals, too.

For Schlitz, kegs were shipped cooled and iced with no icing along the way. Bottles were shipped without ice. Empty kegs and bottles were backhauled in the same cars to Milwaukee. I assume A-B did similar.

Yes, in case you are wondering, a photo exists of a SLRX car, presumably carrying Bud, on Milwaukee's Beer Line.

Manufacturers are missing an opportunity with these cars. Only a few modelers would need more, but everybody modeling the transition era could have� one car each from DSDX and SLRX.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

On 01/19/2018 08:48 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

I would think that BEER would be the most common "back haul" item for produce reefers.

How far could beer travel in the steam era? Obviously magazines could travel across
the entire country, a trip that took almost a week even in the 1950's. Could beer
travel that far, and if it did, was it iced along the way like produce and meat?

Tim O'Connor



EVERYTHING I've been told says that meat reefers were not used to haul anything but meat.
There was too much risk of contamination, among other things.
All the stories of produce reefers back-hauling film and bulk mail (Magazines)are, again from everything I've been told, a bit over blown. It WAS common, just not AS common.
I have a circular from the ATSF about what COULD be hauled in a SFRD produce reefer, and the list has something like 900 items and it is varied.
And I believe, you'll have to talk to Tony T. about this, as a percentage produce was the largest single item, but the majority of the tonnage hauled was non-produce perishable items, for lack of a better term.
Paul Catapano

Re: ATSF reefer circular

Matthew Metoyer
 

Paul,

Your attachment was stripped from the STMFC group, however I'd like a copy, if you don't mind.

Thanks,

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria

On Jan 19, 2018 5:59 PM, "Paul Catapano pc66ot@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I hope this goes through. It is 125 pages long. Paul Catapano

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Douglas Harding
 

We need to remember this thread started with a question about meat reefers. And meat reefers were different from produce or dairy reefers. Meat packers did not want moisture inside the reefer as it could make the meat unfit for sale. So no chipped ice or “snow” blown in on the contents. And no fans to circulate the moist air. In some meat packers, Armour particularly, used reefers equipped with brine tanks, which contained the ice/salt melt in a separate container. So no ice melt could come in contact with the meat. I would speculate most of the moisture in a meat reefer came from the cleaning process, and they purposely did not use steam for cleaning as it heated up the car interior too much and thus took too long to cool down. Hot water was used for cleaning but not steam.

 

So unlike a produce reefer, it is quite possible a meat reefer would be dry inside, or dry quickly.

 

And remember meat reefers were in captive service under lease to a meat packer. The cars were not used for backhauls as the quicker they were returned to the slaughter house the fewer cars were needed in the cycle of shipments. I’m sure a few of you have seen the photos of the Decker meat reefer with the word Decker painted on the roof. One explanation for the roof lettering was so the yard master in the yard tower could spot the Decker cars and keep them moving back to the Decker plant.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 5:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

 

 

How long would it take to dry out a reefer? Seems like a poor environment to ship anything that could absorb moisture.

 

Bill Welch

Scalecoat was RE: Re: Tru-color paint

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Scalecoat, both I and II, are indeed available and the line’s been expanded considerably, with both flat and gloss finishes and also a lot of weathering colors along the lines of what the late lamented Floquil provided.



I have used both, I and II, preferring II for brass and I for plastic models.



I have also used Testors paint on plastic models. I buy several of those microscopic bottles and put them in a knock-off Floquil-type bottle, as I use a 47-year-old Binks Wren single action syphon brush. (hey, works for me . . .). I think that (all the paints in this note) about 50/50 with the appropriate thinner from the manufacturer. Harbor Freight compressor, spraying at ~30 pounds pressure.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint





On 1/18/2018 12:11 PM, Allen Montgomery sandbear75@... <mailto:sandbear75@...> [STMFC] wrote:

I picked up some Scalecoat II at Caboose Hobbies last summer.

Did a little Googling and it seem Scalecoat was sold to another company. I can't determine if Scalecoat I is available or not. I do have some left and will use that until I run out.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems,
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Tru-color paint

Jon Miller
 

    Well I decided to use Scalecoat.  And even thought it looked good and sprayed on another surface good it came out blotched on the BL sides.  Figured I had a ruined pair of sides but took some Scalecoat gloss and thinned it a bunch.  Lightly sprayed that over and I think everything is OK.  One problem is it's going to take a while to dry.
    What makes me mad about these modern hobby paints is that I have a very old (40 years?) 2 oz bottle of Floquil boxcar red.  This paint works as good as the day it was made.


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Tim O'Connor
 


I would think that BEER would be the most common "back haul" item for produce reefers.

How far could beer travel in the steam era? Obviously magazines could travel across
the entire country, a trip that took almost a week even in the 1950's. Could beer
travel that far, and if it did, was it iced along the way like produce and meat?

Tim O'Connor



EVERYTHING I've been told says that meat reefers were not used to haul anything but meat.
There was too much risk of contamination, among other things.
All the stories of produce reefers back-hauling film and bulk mail (Magazines)are, again from everything I've been told, a bit over blown. It WAS common, just not AS common.
I have a circular from the ATSF about what COULD be hauled in a SFRD produce reefer, and the list has something like 900 items and it is varied.
And I believe, you'll have to talk to Tony T. about this, as a percentage produce was the largest single item, but the majority of the tonnage hauled was non-produce perishable items, for lack of a better term.
Paul Catapano

ATSF reefer circular

Paul Catapano
 

I hope this goes through. It is 125 pages long. Paul Catapano



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Paul Catapano
 

EVERYTHING I've been told says that meat reefers were not used to haul anything but meat.
There was too much risk of contamination, among other things.
All the stories of produce reefers back-hauling film and bulk mail (Magazines)are, again from everything I've been told, a bit over blown. It WAS common, just not AS common.
I have a circular from the ATSF about what COULD be hauled in a SFRD produce reefer, and the list has something like 900 items and it is varied.
And I believe, you'll have to talk to Tony T. about this, as a percentage produce was the largest single item, but the majority of the tonnage hauled was non-produce perishable items, for lack of a better term.
 
Paul Catapano


Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Benjamin Hom
 


Paul Koehler wrote:
"You are picking nits, the question was could they be used, and the answer is still yes no matter how few there were in PFE service."

The logic displayed here reminds me of this scene from Dumb and Dumber:


Ben Hom

Re: Tru-color paint

Gene Deimling
 

Thank you Tim for the explanation.

--
Gene Deimling
El Dorado Hills, CA

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Frank Grimm <fddms@...>
 

Group
Matches were shipped as back haul.

Frank Grimm
Sandwich, IL

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Paul Koehler
 

Tony:

 

You are picking nits, the question was could they be used, and the answer is still yes no matter how few there were in PFE service.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 3:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

 

 

Paul Koehler wrote:



 

Tony:

 In the Transcon WB tariff there was a provision for the use of three ice bunker reefers in lue of one boxcar.  R.H.  Donnelly big time printer of periodicals in the Chicago area used reefers all the time.  Usually produce cars but if there was an empty PFM meet reefer to move west that would be used.

 

     True, but PFE had around 100 meat cars in a fleet of around 40,000 cars at the time I model. I would call this a rare usage. I understood the original question to be about meat reefers in general, which would considerably outnumber the small group in PFE.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 

 

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Welch wrote:

 

How long would it take to dry out a reefer? Seems like a poor environment to ship anything that could absorb moisture.


        Never. The PFE people I interviewed said an ice reefer was damp all its life. That's one reason there was no point in opening ice hatches "to dry out the car." The PFE people said, "drying out wouldn't happen." But damp doesn't mean WET.
         Anything moisture-sensitive was appropriately protected. Stacks of magazines were wrapped in heavy paper, for example.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Bill Welch
 

How long would it take to dry out a reefer? Seems like a poor environment to ship anything that could absorb moisture.

Bill Welch

Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Tony Thompson
 

Paul Koehler wrote:

 
Tony:

 In the Transcon WB tariff there was a provision for the use of three ice bunker reefers in lue of one boxcar.  R.H.  Donnelly big time printer of periodicals in the Chicago area used reefers all the time.  Usually produce cars but if there was an empty PFM meet reefer to move west that would be used.


     True, but PFE had around 100 meat cars in a fleet of around 40,000 cars at the time I model. I would call this a rare usage. I understood the original question to be about meat reefers in general, which would considerably outnumber the small group in PFE.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

Paul Koehler
 

Maynard:

 

How bout a PFE?

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 2:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

 

 

I don't think the PFM refer would even hold a Reader's Digest :)

Maynard Stowe

 

On Friday, January 19, 2018 5:45 PM, "'Paul Koehler' koehlers@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Tony:

 

In the Transcon WB tariff there was a provision for the use of three ice bunker reefers in lue of one boxcar.  R.H.  Donnelly big time printer of periodicals in the Chicago area used reefers all the time.  Usually produce cars but if there was an empty PFM meet reefer to move west that would be used.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto: STMFC@... ]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 2:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Meat Reefers - Backhaul Freight

 

 

Pat Wade wrote:

 

 

I have read that empty west bound reeders were used to haul magazines from Chicago to LA. Think Saturday Evening Post.

 

    True, but not in meat reefers.

 

Tony Thompson