Date   

Re: More reefers

Brad Andonian
 

You are way too low on the wine...

On Thursday, January 25, 2018, 9:43 PM, 'Doug Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

The recent discussion about reefers came to mind when I found the following:

To feed an American for an average lifetime, the following shopping list will take care of the essentials:

4 tons beef,

4 tons potatoes,

4 tons fresh vegetables,

3 tons fresh fruit,

2,000 gallons milk,

2 tons chicken,

1,800 gallons beer,

1/2 ton fish,

20,000 eggs,

3-1/2 tons sugar,

1/2 ton cheese,

108,000 slices bread,

296 gallons wine,

80,000 cups coffee, (5,000 gallons)

880 gallons tea,

2,000 gallons soda.

--Marc McCutcheon,

The Compass in Your Nose and Other Astonishing Facts about Humans

(Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1989).

 

A quick look at the list shows most of the items could of have traveled in a reefer. But look at the quantities, the lowly potato is right up there. For each reefer of beef do I also need a reefer hauling potatoes? Another hauling fresh vegetables, and yet another hauling fruit. Don’t overlook the dairy, eggs and chickens, also known as produce. And the beverages, almost as much beer as milk. I suspect the quantity of soda is more of a modern day item, though soda bottlers were around during the steam era. And these reefers varied in design based upon their intended loads.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: More reefers

Douglas Harding
 

The recent discussion about reefers came to mind when I found the following:

To feed an American for an average lifetime, the following shopping list will take care of the essentials:

4 tons beef,

4 tons potatoes,

4 tons fresh vegetables,

3 tons fresh fruit,

2,000 gallons milk,

2 tons chicken,

1,800 gallons beer,

1/2 ton fish,

20,000 eggs,

3-1/2 tons sugar,

1/2 ton cheese,

108,000 slices bread,

296 gallons wine,

80,000 cups coffee, (5,000 gallons)

880 gallons tea,

2,000 gallons soda.

--Marc McCutcheon,

The Compass in Your Nose and Other Astonishing Facts about Humans

(Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1989).

 

A quick look at the list shows most of the items could of have traveled in a reefer. But look at the quantities, the lowly potato is right up there. For each reefer of beef do I also need a reefer hauling potatoes? Another hauling fresh vegetables, and yet another hauling fruit. Don’t overlook the dairy, eggs and chickens, also known as produce. And the beverages, almost as much beer as milk. I suspect the quantity of soda is more of a modern day item, though soda bottlers were around during the steam era. And these reefers varied in design based upon their intended loads.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: FEC 17001 ventilated cars

Bill Baker <bill_baker@...>
 

Rob,
 
I had the same problem . . . Model Railroader of December, 1975, page 59.  I checked the internet for a used magazine vendor to obtain my copy.  Expensive but worth it for the wealth of data.  (Bill Welch may be able to provide photos of his model.)
 
Regards
 
 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] FEC 17001 ventilated cars

I’m working on a model of the car end for these cars for another modeller, but so far am working from a poor ¾ view photo and the basic dimensions of murphy ends.  It would be useful to obtain dimensions for the height and width of the car bodies.  As a CPR modeller, I don’t have that sort of information in my resources..  If there are drawings or dimensions available, I’d sure appreciate it.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Rob Kirkham
 


Re: FEC 17001 ventilated cars

Robert kirkham
 

LOL – well, because I am building to O scale. 

 

Rob

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:08 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FEC 17001 ventilated cars

 



If you are in 1/87 scale why not use the Westerfield ends for this car?

 

Bill Welch





Re: FGEX R7 reefer

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

​Lester,


The X23 family of cars, including the R7, did not have stringers.  I base this in an AB brake arrangement diagram for the X23, which clearly shows the center sills, all of the cross-bearers and other associated components of the underframe, but has no evidence in any view of stringers.  The absence of stringers may be due to the very hefty center sill.


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

========================

Stringers weren't about increasing the load capacity of the car, but rather the point loading the floor could resist. Back in the period just after the first war when these cars were designed, freight (other than bulk freight, like grain) was rolled in on hand trucks and stacked by hand. The point loading wasn't any greater than the overall floor loading, and cars from this era typically did not have stringers.

The general adoption of palatalized freight during WWII changed all that. Now you had the weight of maybe 16 sq.ft. of freight, plus the weight of the machine, all perched on the front two tires of the jeep, and breaking through the floor was a real possibility. Thus from WWII on, floors had first four, then six stringers to help distribute the point loads.

Dennis Storzek


Re: FGEX R7 reefer

Bruce Smith
 

​Lester,


The X23 family of cars, including the R7, did not have stringers.  I base this in an AB brake arrangement diagram for the X23, which clearly shows the center sills, all of the cross-bearers and other associated components of the underframe, but has no evidence in any view of stringers.  The absence of stringers may be due to the very hefty center sill.


Regards

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of frograbbit602@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 1:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] FGEX R7 reefer
 


I am working on an Westerfield Models R7 FGEX Refrigerator, kit 11661, to be numbered in the 45645 to 46270 series. A photo of a car in this series appears in Railway Prototype Cyc., Vol. 15, p.75.  My question is on the underframe.   I see stringers on the underframe in some of the photos; however, no mention of them in the instructions.  I am asking if some can direct me to a drawing so I can or provide information to clear up the discrepancy so I can get the underframe correct.  I do have access to the 1919 Car Builders Cyc.; however, I could not find an answer there.  

Thank You for for time and effort to help.

Lester Breuer





Re: Width over side sheets for CNW/CMO USRA DS rebuilds

Jack Mullen
 

Ben,

First a correction - inside widths for USRA and AAR std boxcars were 8' 6" and 9' 2" respectively. 

You're right about IW being increased when the cars were rebuilt.  The CNW/CMO rebuilds had 9'2 IW.  Assuming the lining is 13/16" lumber, and the side framing is 3" deep, the width over the side framing should be 9' 9 5/8".  Allowing 0.1" steel sheathing on each side brings the total just a bit shy of 9' 10".  

The assumed values are consistent with the AAR standard boxcars, and very typical for the era. I wish I could be a bit more definite, but most of my references are still in boxes.

Jack Mullen


Re: FGEX R7 reefer

SUVCWORR@...
 

These are PRR R7 class cars sold to FGEX when it was formed.  PRR drawings are available from the PRRT&HS archives

Drawings are C-40633, C-48069, C-65591

This is the link to the order form  http://prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRProducts.htm

PRRTHS.com    products for sale, then equipment diagrams.

Also See Rob Schoenberg's site has photos and drawings but not of the underframe   http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=R7

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: frograbbit602@... [STMFC] To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jan 25, 2018 5:13 pm
Subject: [STMFC] FGEX R7 reefer



I am working on an Westerfield Models R7 FGEX Refrigerator, kit 11661, to be numbered in the 45645 to 46270 series. A photo of a car in this series appears in Railway Prototype Cyc., Vol. 15, p.75.  My question is on the underframe.   I see stringers on the underframe in some of the photos; however, no mention of them in the instructions.  I am asking if some can direct me to a drawing so I can or provide information to clear up the discrepancy so I can get the underframe correct.  I do have access to the 1919 Car Builders Cyc.; however, I could not find an answer there.  

Thank You for for time and effort to help.

Lester Breuer





Re: Services of the Pullman Library

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

In response to my morning's note about the subject, Dennis Storzek mentioned, "The gold standard for drawing search criteria is the builder's lot number; all drawings are organized by this number."

I should have mentioned the lot number, Dennis, but did not think of it as all three of my sought cars did not show lot numbers on any of the records I possessed.  However, Bob and Ted at the Library did not let that stop them.  They found the cars anyway!  But by all means, if you can find the lot number, give it too.

Regards----Mike Schleigh


On Thursday, January 25, 2018, 2:26:11 PM EST, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:


 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :
...Get on with it; the process was very easy as long as you provide the basic information the Library needs, i. e., car description including railroad and number series when purchased and date and place of construction.  Do not get into the weeds with what you seek, just those facts of the construction.  The Library is a phenomenal resource for research on our prototypes.  If they have it, you will likely be pleased with it...

====================

I second what Mike has to say. The gold standard for drawing search criteria is the builder's lot number; all drawings are organized by this number. The railroad name, number series, built date, etc. allow  a search of the lot lists to find drawings when the request doesn't have a lot number,  but may miss lots if the name it was filed under is different than expected, or the car numbers weren't yet assigned at the time the drawings were prepared, but the lot number finds all.

An example of "getting off in the weeds" is requesting say, a representative sample of 1937 AAR cars, or USRA cars. The builders' lot lists are not organized to be searched this way. Even if the car was built to an accepted standard, the drawing never mentions that fact, and the lot lists rarely do. Even the standards allowed variation in doors, roofs, ends, and other hardware, and the builders took the view that each order was a unique combination, and therefore a custom job, to use the modern term. If a representative sample really is needed, the best way to proceed is to identify the lot numbers of the cars that would make up that sample, and request information on those lots.

Dennis Storzek


FGEX R7 reefer

frograbbit602
 

I am working on an Westerfield Models R7 FGEX Refrigerator, kit 11661, to be numbered in the 45645 to 46270 series. A photo of a car in this series appears in Railway Prototype Cyc., Vol. 15, p.75.  My question is on the underframe.   I see stringers on the underframe in some of the photos; however, no mention of them in the instructions.  I am asking if some can direct me to a drawing so I can or provide information to clear up the discrepancy so I can get the underframe correct.  I do have access to the 1919 Car Builders Cyc.; however, I could not find an answer there.  

Thank You for for time and effort to help.

Lester Breuer



Caboose Roof Walks - Painted?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  Most painted brass cabooses simply paint the roof walks
the same color as the roof - factory or custom painted.
Once in a while you will see one that is a different color
but typically/usually that is when the model is
representing a way car that had a different color than
the roof.

  I've seen a lot of pictures of freight cars and the roof
walks on them - whether they are wood or metal - all
seem to be different than the roofs they cover/cross.
A quick search of the web did not produce any
definitive answer/guidance to the following Qs.

  What weathering treatment are you doing to your
-brass- caboose roof walks?  If you use different
techniques for wood -vs- metal please describe both.

  Are you doing anything other than adding some
weathering ... for instance anything to represent a
wood roof walk where the paint has worn off?  Or
for a wood roof walk that wasn't painted (did that
happen)?
                                                                - thanks ... Jim B.


R7 FGEX REEFER UNDERFRAME

frograbbit602
 

Working on a Westerfield Models FGEX R7 reefer which I will number in the series 45645 to 46270 using photo in Railway Prototype Cyc., Vol. 15, p.75 for lettering guide.  My question is on the underframe.   I see stringers in some of the underframe photos in the kit instructions yet no reference to them in the writeup and stringers not are on the underframe casting.   Is there a drawing of the underframe I can look at for this reefer or can someone help me understand?  I do have access to a 1919 Car Builders Cyc., however, I could not  find my answer there or I missed it.

Thank You for your time and effort to help in advance.

Lester Breuer



Re: Services of the Pullman Library

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <mike_schleigh@...> wrote :
...Get on with it; the process was very easy as long as you provide the basic information the Library needs, i. e., car description including railroad and number series when purchased and date and place of construction.  Do not get into the weeds with what you seek, just those facts of the construction.  The Library is a phenomenal resource for research on our prototypes.  If they have it, you will likely be pleased with it...

====================

I second what Mike has to say. The gold standard for drawing search criteria is the builder's lot number; all drawings are organized by this number. The railroad name, number series, built date, etc. allow  a search of the lot lists to find drawings when the request doesn't have a lot number,  but may miss lots if the name it was filed under is different than expected, or the car numbers weren't yet assigned at the time the drawings were prepared, but the lot number finds all.

An example of "getting off in the weeds" is requesting say, a representative sample of 1937 AAR cars, or USRA cars. The builders' lot lists are not organized to be searched this way. Even if the car was built to an accepted standard, the drawing never mentions that fact, and the lot lists rarely do. Even the standards allowed variation in doors, roofs, ends, and other hardware, and the builders took the view that each order was a unique combination, and therefore a custom job, to use the modern term. If a representative sample really is needed, the best way to proceed is to identify the lot numbers of the cars that would make up that sample, and request information on those lots.

Dennis Storzek


February ops on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

After the hiatis I want to start  hosting op sessions on the Alma branch again.  The following days in February are open:  Saturday the 10th and Saturday the 17th; Sunday the 11th, Sunday the 18th and Sunday the 25th.  My op sessions begin with lunch before the crew heads for the basement to run Santa Fe trains 95/96 from Burlingame to Alma and back.  An op session lasts 2 1/2-3 1/2 hours.  If any of the above dates will work for you let me know and we will settle on a date.  Three people are needed.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606
706-543-8821


Re: Services of the Pullman Library

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Ted was very helpful to me in obtaining a drawing for a C&O HS project years ago just after they moved in.


Al Kresse

On January 25, 2018 at 9:48 AM "Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Over this past weekend, Group----

I received three sets of car builder drawing copies from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railroad Museum.  I had begun discussing these cars with Ted Anderson on Saturday afternoon late in October while attending the ChicagoLand RPM at Lisle.  Ted recommended the best course of action to follow and I began it a couple of weeks after returning home.  A couple of emails and one phone call later, my desires were identified, quoted, and soon paid for, just ahead of the Christmas season.  I could not be more pleased with what I received and with the superb help I received from Ted and Bob Webber at the Library.  If any of you are possibly considering seeking help there, do not hesitate.  Get on with it; the process was very easy as long as you provide the basic information the Library needs, i. e., car description including railroad and number series when purchased and date and place of construction.  Do not get into the weeds with what you seek, just those facts of the construction.  The Library is a phenomenal resource for research on our prototypes.  If they have it, you will likely be pleased with it.

Since it has not been otherwise noted, I trust that I will be forgiven for the following.  I will take the lead to say that Ted Anderson informed me that he would be retiring at the end of 2017 and, with that, no longer be the chief contact and curator at the Library.  I hope he will not become a stranger there or attending our gatherings such as the RPM meets.  We owe him a debt of gratitude and I suspect I am one of many researchers who have been thrilled with the information Ted has helped find and provide for our dreams and desires.  Thank you Ted!

Mr. Bob Webber has assumed the curator role and Ted as assumed an "emeritus" title.

From Western Penna, at Grove City----Mike Schleigh

 


 


Services of the Pullman Library

Schleigh Mike
 

Over this past weekend, Group----

I received three sets of car builder drawing copies from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railroad Museum.  I had begun discussing these cars with Ted Anderson on Saturday afternoon late in October while attending the ChicagoLand RPM at Lisle.  Ted recommended the best course of action to follow and I began it a couple of weeks after returning home.  A couple of emails and one phone call later, my desires were identified, quoted, and soon paid for, just ahead of the Christmas season.  I could not be more pleased with what I received and with the superb help I received from Ted and Bob Webber at the Library.  If any of you are possibly considering seeking help there, do not hesitate.  Get on with it; the process was very easy as long as you provide the basic information the Library needs, i. e., car description including railroad and number series when purchased and date and place of construction.  Do not get into the weeds with what you seek, just those facts of the construction.  The Library is a phenomenal resource for research on our prototypes.  If they have it, you will likely be pleased with it.

Since it has not been otherwise noted, I trust that I will be forgiven for the following.  I will take the lead to say that Ted Anderson informed me that he would be retiring at the end of 2017 and, with that, no longer be the chief contact and curator at the Library.  I hope he will not become a stranger there or attending our gatherings such as the RPM meets.  We owe him a debt of gratitude and I suspect I am one of many researchers who have been thrilled with the information Ted has helped find and provide for our dreams and desires.  Thank you Ted!

Mr. Bob Webber has assumed the curator role and Ted as assumed an "emeritus" title.

From Western Penna, at Grove City----Mike Schleigh


Re: FEC 17001 ventilated cars

Bill Welch
 

If you are in 1/87 scale why not use the Westerfield ends for this car?

Bill Welch


FEC 17001 ventilated cars

Robert kirkham
 

I’m working on a model of the car end for these cars for another modeller, but so far am working from a poor ¾ view photo and the basic dimensions of murphy ends.  It would be useful to obtain dimensions for the height and width of the car bodies.  As a CPR modeller, I don’t have that sort of information in my resources.  If there are drawings or dimensions available, I’d sure appreciate it.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Rob Kirkham
 


Re: 6650 - GTW 583000 Series Autocar - appropriate trucks?

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for looking Ian.  I have a blurred copy of a photo of GTW 441304, which is also an end door car.  Far as I can tell from that photo, it too uses a truck with integral cast bolsters, so what I guess would be represented by a “Bettendorf” HO truck.   To me, it most closely resembles the standard ARA truck shown in photo 19 on p.77 of the May 2013 MRH article by Richard Hendrickson.

 

While I’m asking about the F&C model – my kit didn’t include parts to model the bottom plates of the body bolsters.   I assume it was not part of the kit.    Did any of you make bolster cover plates?  I’m thinking of doing so from styrene, but want to ensure I don’t create a problem with truck movement when I do it.   Any comments on whether this is an issue?   

 

Rob    

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 6:37 PM
To: runeighty@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 6650 - GTW 583000 Series Autocar - appropriate trucks?

 



On Jan 21, 2018, at 8:10 PM, Robert kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I am slowly moving this kit to conclusion but have not yet found a proto photo, so am taking my chances on some elements.  One thing I’d like to get right is the trucks I put under it.  I seem to be missing information in the instructions, but the Mainline Modeller drawing appears to show Andrews trucks.  

 

Does anyone have more specific info on what trucks are appropriate for these cars?

 

Unfortunately, I don’t have a diagram sheet for these cars — if I did, I could cite a specific truck design.

 

However, I think the Andrews truck that MM used is likely an unusual example.  A builder’s photo of 583699 and in-service photos of 583369 and 583675 show the same design of cast side frame truck in use on all three cars (I presume a 40-ton truck, but haven’t checked the ORER to be sure).

 

Ian CranstoneOsgoode, Ontario, Canada








Re: 6650 - GTW 583000 Series Autocar - appropriate trucks?

Ian Cranstone
 

On Jan 21, 2018, at 8:10 PM, Robert kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I am slowly moving this kit to conclusion but have not yet found a proto photo, so am taking my chances on some elements.  One thing I’d like to get right is the trucks I put under it.  I seem to be missing information in the instructions, but the Mainline Modeller drawing appears to show Andrews trucks.  
 
Does anyone have more specific info on what trucks are appropriate for these cars?

Unfortunately, I don’t have a diagram sheet for these cars — if I did, I could cite a specific truck design.

However, I think the Andrews truck that MM used is likely an unusual example.  A builder’s photo of 583699 and in-service photos of 583369 and 583675 show the same design of cast side frame truck in use on all three cars (I presume a 40-ton truck, but haven’t checked the ORER to be sure).

Ian CranstoneOsgoode, Ontario, Canada


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