Date   

Re: Lettering requirements

Earl Tuson
 

Being a resin builder, getting decals right is an issue.
The MCB/ARA/AAR Standards and Recommended Practices by themselves do little to assist with accurate freight car
lettering; interchange <requirements> are something different. However, I am finding they are crucial to gaining a better
understanding of the prototype's (the B&M's, in my study,) changes over time. Photos are the still the guide we should
most rely on.

Earl Tuson


Re: Lettering requirements

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Charlie,

Good luck on that one. So far I have two different commercial RR Roman fonts plus two more fonts that I drew up in order to be able match various different prototype fonts.

So now I can just type in whichever font I need and I still often end up modifying certain letters to match the prototype.

If you have prototype photos showing the font you want, I’ll develop a font to match can be installed on your computer.

John Hagen

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 

 

Eric-

I am looking for the actual set of lettering alphabet / punctuation / numbers not placement on cars.  Normally they are dimensioned differently for small to large lettering.

I’ve got sets for UP, ATSF, SP and other roads and a long time ago using Budd drawings made up the “Zephyr Font” that was the basis for Micro-Scale and other renditions of that style lettering.  

What I am looking for is the ARA Standard Railroad Roman type lettering that apparently the CB&Q used as the basis for their hand lettered and stenciled lettering on freight cars as no reference to a CB&Q drawing has turned up so far.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 






Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   

Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.

Thanks

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Lettering requirements

Charlie Vlk
 

Eric-

I am looking for the actual set of lettering alphabet / punctuation / numbers not placement on cars.  Normally they are dimensioned differently for small to large lettering.

I’ve got sets for UP, ATSF, SP and other roads and a long time ago using Budd drawings made up the “Zephyr Font” that was the basis for Micro-Scale and other renditions of that style lettering.  

What I am looking for is the ARA Standard Railroad Roman type lettering that apparently the CB&Q used as the basis for their hand lettered and stenciled lettering on freight cars as no reference to a CB&Q drawing has turned up so far.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 





Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   

Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.

Thanks

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Charlie Vlk
 

Colors are commonly specified by CMYK (percentages 0 to 100 of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black) or RGB ( 0 to 255 value of Red, Green, Blue with the intensity varying from none (0) to full (255).
All colors can be expressed using either system.   There are other ways of defining colors but they are beyond common Model Railroad use.   I think some people call a CMYK or RGB specified color “Pantone” but while Pantone colors can be defined in CMYK or RGB they are specific value colors that Pantone publishes.

 

….Pantone is a system of standard colors which are primarily used in the printing industry for inks.  They issue families of color books for matching and specifying graphic colors. 

It is not the only such system….in fact, the Far East and Europe each have proprietary systems which have different color selections.

In my experience all of them are seriously deficient for specifying railroad colors.  The most reliable way to convey color to a factory is to provide painted color card samples or models that have the desired color.

 

One really can’t use historical actual railroad color drift cards because color has scale and lighting conditions have a tremendous impact on the appearance of color.  For example, a drift card for DuPont “Imitation Aluminum”, a color common to the CB&Q, CRI&P, B&M, MEC, and other railroads, is on the prototype an off-white color with no hint of a metallic value.  In the barrel it is a gray, almost Cadet Gray, and the DuPont drift card is also very dark.  Models have been painted matching the “official” DuPont color and they look horrible in full sunlight much less on the model railroad in a relatively poorly lit basement.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

.



Re: a stronger solution

John Sykes III
 

Go to a high end camera store (one that sells darkroom supplies) and they will have it.  You can also probably buy it on line from B&H Photo in NY.  That is exactly what I use.  Only need very little.  A cap full in a tray of deionized water will handle a whole day's of enlarging work.

Colonial Camera in Orlando is probably a good choice.  You can buy the photography supplies on one side of the store and Model Railroad supplies on the other side.

-- John 


Re: NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 


The rebuilds had Nailable Steel Floors - although I don't know whether that was a change.

Also, all of my photos (I have 6 for these cars) appear to show Morton running boards - no good
views of the hand brake step however.

The Viking roofs were not immediately replaced, but a later photo (1970) shows a replacement
diagonal panel roof.

Tim O'Connor


In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff


NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


Detailed coupler boxes from Smoky Mtn Model Works (reminder)

Jim King
 

SMMW’s recently-released coupler boxes have been well-received so I thought a quick reminder is appropriate to reach those who may not know about ‘em.  Visit my web page for more info, then contact me off-list to place an order.  All coupler styles and colors are in-stock.  I do not have a “shopping cart” option … just send a short email with the part numbers you want, I’ll reply with an invoice and you send payment.  Pretty simple.

 

http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_draft_gear+cplrs.html

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Lettering requirements

Steve SANDIFER
 

I’d really like a copy of that material. Being a resin builder, getting decals right is an issue.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 7:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 

 

Stephen Sandifer asked:

> When did the lettering requirements on the sides of cars change? In the
> 1880s the primary info seemed to be the ID and car #. Later other dimensions
> and weight were added and at different locations or in different
> configurations. I assume this was a federal requirement. Enlighten me
> please.

The Master Car Builder's Association, a voluntary trade group, issued Recommended Practices and Standards for various
aspects of lettering, marking, and stenciling beginning as early as 1893. Early on, new practices were added and
revisions made in a near continuous fashion: 1896, 1901, 1902, 1906, 1908, 1909, 1911, 1913... but more significant
changes were introduced in 1920 and 1926.

I have been working up a detailed account of these changes, which I anticipate adding as an appendix to complement a
similarly detailed account of B&M lettering practices during the 1900-1930 period.

Earl Tuson


WESTERFIELD MODELS Newsletter, Vol 7, No 1, Feb, 2018

dahminator68
 

Hello Steam Era Modelers:

 
We are pleased to announce that Westerfield Models has a new Kit available:

Our newest HO Kit release is the 
 #12800 Series B-50-15 single sheathed box car with steel sheathing, Murphy radial roof and AB brakes for Southern Pacific and subsidiaries.  Our One-Piece Body Kit covers series #14480-15229, 750 cars built in 1925 by Standard Steel Car Co.  The original single wood sheathed box cars differed from previous SP types in that they used hat section side posts of the 1924 design in a Pratt truss arrangement.  In 1935, SP began converting the cars to steel sheathing, first for Pacific Motor Trucking (PMT) service, then for Baggage Express (BX) service in 1942.  Freight versions of these cars also began receiving steel sheathing in this period and by the beginning of WWII, 930 cars in freight service had been converted (Total of all B-50-15 built versions was 3900 cars).  Beginning in 1942, the cars began receiving AB brakes as well.  Look for future Westerfield Kit releases covering the original version as well as PMT, BX and Overnight versions of these cars.

Our unpainted HO Kits include detail parts appropriate for the B-50-15, including the following details:
Improved Cast Urethane One-Piece Body Construction with Fine Details.
Urethane Castings of detail parts, including many car specific parts.
Detailed Hi-Tech rubber air hoses.
Yarmouth Etched Bronze Corner Steps and Carmer uncoupling levers.
Proprietary Decals covering all freight versions of the car.
Detailed Step by Step Instructions and History Sheets with assembly and finished model photographs.
Recommended Trucks:  Tahoe Model Works TMW-109 or TMW-209 Barber Lateral Motion Trucks.
Tahoe TMW-109  or TMW-209 Barber Lateral  Trucks available separately or with Kit (See below).
Kadee Couplers are available separately.

These are available direct from Westerfield Models for $ 45.00 each plus shipping.  Most of our Kits do not include trucks or couplers.  We do offer Tahoe Trucks and Kadee Couplers for this Series of Kit and separately for our other Kits.  See the Kit versions listed below.  Operating Era for B-50-15 box cars covered by #12800 Series Kits: 1925-1973.  Modern version era: 1935-1973.

Please also note that our Kit is available NOW.

AVAILABLE NOW ON OUR WEBSITE UNDER "New Kit Releases".
KIT NUMBER:
12851  B-50-15 SS Box Car, Steel Sheathed, Murphy Radial Roof, No End Doors, AB Brakes, SP Freight    $45.00
12881  B-50-15 SS Box Car Kit with Tahoe TMW-109 Trucks with Code 110 Wheels                                      $51.00
12882  B-50-15 SS Box Car Kit with Tahoe TMW-209 Trucks with Semi-Scale Wheels                                   $51.00

We would like to ask if anyone has Sunshine Kit #38.25 or #38.26.  We would like to borrow the old decal set from your Kit in order to make a new decal set for a new release of that kit version with a One-Piece Body.  In return for letting Westerfield Models borrow your decals, we will send you a new set of decals when they are ready.
If interested, please contact us at westerfieldmodels@....

Also available is our recent Kit release  #12451 Express Service Box Car, NWP:
#12451       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brakes, NWP, Kit Only.                                                      $46.00
#12481       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brk, NWP, with Tahoe TMW-112 Code 110 Trucks      $52.00
#12482       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brk, NWP, with Tahoe TMW-212 Code 88 Trucks        $53.00

All of the above Kits are available through our website:     
westerfieldmodels.com
We are also glad to accept orders via Mailed in Order Form or phone.

Westerfield Kits include new HO scale unpainted urethane castings, and are complete with quality details, detailed instruction/history sheets 
and proprietary decals covering all versions of the prototype car.   Trucks and couplers are not included but are available separately. 
 
Westerfield Models is available for custom casting work.  We can make castings from your patterns, both from your custom masters or your 3D printed masters.  Please see our Website, Main Page "Custom Castings" for more information.  Link to page:  http://westerfieldmodels.com/116622.html

Questions or Suggestions?  Feel free to email us at:  westerfieldmodels@....
 
Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfield Models, LLC
westerfieldmodels.com
westerfieldmodels@...
Like us on Facebook!




Re: a sad modeling milestone

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’ve used the Testors solution and it seemed to do what it needed to do. I’ve not used it on Champ decals, however, just on Ted Culotta’s decals.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 10:19 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: a sad modeling milestone





I still have a little bit left, don't know what I will do when I run out. Although somebody gave me three bottles of Testors Decal Setting solution and I did use it once and it seemed to work fine.



Rick Jesionowski





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


SP B-50-15 and -16

Ted Culotta
 

With the discussion recently about the Southern Pacific B-50-15 and -16 box cars on several lists, I thought I would share some market intelligence. The SP B-50-15 and -16 cars, based upon the ARA design for single sheathed box cars, will be be offered in HO as “modular” tooled, injection molded styrene kits, allowing for the production of several different variants, with different roof, end, and side combinations, including the steel sheathed versions. Lettering will be offered for freight, MOW, Pacific Motor Trucking (PMT - early Overnight), Railway Express Agency, and Overnight schemes, where appropriate.


The toolmaker is one of the best in the business, so the kits will be exceptional. This is a car that all modelers will want, as there were 3,900 B-50-15s and another 1,003 B-50-16s. They were in service from the mid-1920s well into the 1950s, with small numbers surviving into the 1960s. Some cars labored on in MOW service, too.


These are expected in the middle of 2018. For more information about the prototypes, see Southern Pacific Freight Cars, Volume 4: Box Cars by Tony Thompson from Signature Press.


Please no requests for additional details. I am under a non-disclosure agreement, but am permitted to share this information.


Cheers,

Ted



Re: Cocoa Beach 2019

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yahbut . . .



That was discussed at CCB ’18 and it was decided to move it one week later than the “traditional” first full weekend.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Cocoa Beach 2019





It's traditionally the first full weekend of the year



Jerry Glow





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lettering requirements

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Sandifer wrote:

 
When did the lettering requirements on the sides of cars change? In the 1880s the primary info seemed to be the ID and car #. Later other dimensions and weight were added and at different locations or in different configurations. I assume this was a federal requirement. Enlighten me please. 

         Two points, Steve. First, I don't think much if any lettering was a "federal" requirement, though in years subsequent to this list there were certain federally required items. Second, the various railroad associations (MCB, ARA, AAR) put together a variety of "industry consensus" standards and recommendations from time to time. MANY items of lettering that modelers tend to think of as required were actually only recommended, thus you can find exceptions among railroads.
          That said, most railroads did follow recommendations as they were issued.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: a sad modeling milestone

Rick Jesionowski
 

I still have a little bit left, don't know what I will do when I run out.  Although somebody gave me three bottles of Testors Decal Setting solution and I did use it once and it seemed to work fine.

Rick Jesionowski


Re: Lettering requirements

Eric Hansmann
 

Charlie,

 

The link Earl referenced is my file that was created to illustrate the lettering changes in the 1920s. I scanned pages from ORERs and combined the images into the two page PDF.

http://hansmanns.org/ARA_lettering_guidelines_1920_+_1927.pdf

 

Those are the ARA recommended lettering guidelines. There were slight changes to the 1927 guidelines later but I do not have those details. As you compare builder images of cars built in the late 1930s and into the 1940s, the lettering mostly follows the 1927 guidelines.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 




Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   

Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.

Thanks

Charlie Vlk



Re: Lettering requirements

Charlie Vlk
 

Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   
Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.
Thanks
Charlie Vlk


Re: Lettering requirements

Earl Tuson
 

Allow me to add:

Eric Hansmann posted excerpts from the 1920 and 1926 revisions here:


The 1909 revision can be emphasized as well, as that introduced the Lettering-Number-Capacity-Light Weight grouping, typically applied at the left.

Earl Tuson


Re: Lettering requirements

Earl Tuson
 

Stephen Sandifer asked:

When did the lettering requirements on the sides of cars change? In the
1880s the primary info seemed to be the ID and car #. Later other dimensions
and weight were added and at different locations or in different
configurations. I assume this was a federal requirement. Enlighten me
please.
The Master Car Builder's Association, a voluntary trade group, issued Recommended Practices and Standards for various
aspects of lettering, marking, and stenciling beginning as early as 1893. Early on, new practices were added and
revisions made in a near continuous fashion: 1896, 1901, 1902, 1906, 1908, 1909, 1911, 1913... but more significant
changes were introduced in 1920 and 1926.

I have been working up a detailed account of these changes, which I anticipate adding as an appendix to complement a
similarly detailed account of B&M lettering practices during the 1900-1930 period.

Earl Tuson


Re: Lettering requirements

Tom Vanwormer
 

Steve,
Back in the 1880s & 90s it was dictated by the Master Car Builders Association.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

When did the lettering requirements on the sides of cars change? In the 1880s the primary info seemed to be the ID and car #. Later other dimensions and weight were added and at different locations or in different configurations. I assume this was a federal requirement. Enlighten me please.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

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