Date   

Re: Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

rwitt_2000
 

There is this site with photos and instructions for lots of train models: http://hoseeker.net/

It has listings for Laconia.

Bob Witt


General Arrangement Drawing BSCo Hopper ca. 1955

rwitt_2000
 

Currently on eBay


https://tinyurl.com/y8ure6ke


Bethlehem Steel Company car sales dept.  blueprint.  Titled--General Arrangement--50 ton hopper.  34 foot hopper.  Dated 1955. Drawings include--top, end, side and bottom elevations.  This is a company internal use, paper copy. Has been folded. Size is 32 x 60 inches.


The order number is 220 which from the RP Cyc article in Issue 1 the order was from the Reading.


eBay item number: 232676265409


https://www.ebay.com/itm/232676265409?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true


Bob Witt



Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Greg Martin
 

We went through all of this on 12/27/3017 and someone has decided to bring it up. In the final analogy color is subject and it fades/reduces in value at distance and when you stand looking at a car at close proximity what you see is several distortions of the same shade depending on the time of day, direction of light, intensity of light and the angle at which you are standing and looking at the surface. Take an art class at the college level... o[en your eyes and you mind, listen don't talk and learn about how an artist achieves a painting with the use of color that is as refined as a photograph.


Munsell was developed for the paint industry just as RAL and Pantone for ink. Why would you bring a knife to a gun fight.

In my system of shading that I have used for 30+ years I think to express the realism that exists and convey that to our modeling. How you achieve that optical shades of color on your freight car is up to you, I just find it more permanent and easier to do with an airbrush  and people see like it and express a desire to learn how to do it.

If you want to follow along I plan to do a series of my methodology in the media and I will truly use lots of media and technique.
 
Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 2/24/2018 3:27:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:


That is all true. But Pantone colors are often the basis for paint company
colors. I know George Bishop (Accupaint) had a "rolodex" full set of Pantone
cards and used them for paint specifications for his paint manufacturer - and
later for color specifications to Microscale, after he stopped doing his own
silkscreening. The reason is practical: A manufacturer KNOWS how to recreate each
Pantone color. George had an excellent eye for color, so his choices were
within a tiny margin of error compared to actual prototype drift cards. The
human eye can't distinguish 16 million colors, and our color acuity drops off
rapidly with old age.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Todd Sullivan
 

Tim O'Connor said,

"The human eye can't distinguish 16 million colors, and our color acuity drops off
rapidly with old age."

That's wonderful news.  Now I don't have to worry about being quite so accurate - I can just charge it off to old eyes if anyone objects to my color renditions!  ;-)

Todd Sullivan.


Re: MTH R-40-24 ??

David
 

Yes, MTH made 'em. Cast-on grabs, ladders, and such. It's not bad for what it is, if you can't find the Sunshine or Rydarowicz kits.

David Thompson



---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


http://www.prrho.com/files/40--steel-reefer_ART-24370_AT-001_90g7b425.jpg

I was poking around and found this photo of what appears to be a PFE R-40-24
(plywood sheathed ice reefer) [obviously painted for ART].

Anyone know if MTH produced the PFE R-40-24 and what is your opinion of it?

Tim O'Connor


Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Tim O'Connor
 


That is all true. But Pantone colors are often the basis for paint company
colors. I know George Bishop (Accupaint) had a "rolodex" full set of Pantone
cards and used them for paint specifications for his paint manufacturer - and
later for color specifications to Microscale, after he stopped doing his own
silkscreening. The reason is practical: A manufacturer KNOWS how to recreate each
Pantone color. George had an excellent eye for color, so his choices were
within a tiny margin of error compared to actual prototype drift cards. The
human eye can't distinguish 16 million colors, and our color acuity drops off
rapidly with old age.

Tim O'Connor



I'm late to this party, but have a few comments.

The original question was are there Pantone numbers for RR paints?
The answer is usually no.  The reason is that there are only 1200 or 1400 Pantone colors. 

Your computer screen with 24-bit RGB color (8 bits per color) will produce almost 17 million colors (256x256x256 = 16,777,216).  That's a lot more than Pantone, but still not all colors.
Similar is true for CMYK printed colors.

There is no way for RGB or CMYK to produce the color Sodium Yellow, which is a near single frequency of visible light (remember sodium vapor street lights?).   Same is true for the color of most neon signs and any LED - neither the RGB nor CMYK systems can match them.

So we do the best we can with available materials and move on.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


MTH R-40-24 ??

Tim O'Connor
 


http://www.prrho.com/files/40--steel-reefer_ART-24370_AT-001_90g7b425.jpg

I was poking around and found this photo of what appears to be a PFE R-40-24
(plywood sheathed ice reefer) [obviously painted for ART].

Anyone know if MTH produced the PFE R-40-24 and what is your opinion of it?

Tim O'Connor


Re: a stronger [decal setting] solution: "Tim O'Solve"

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

lol - I'll market "FORMULA T" for softening those Tichy decals! And
put a warning label on the bottle.

Tim O'



This sounds like a business opportunity Tim. You could call in "Tim O'Solve."
Maybe offer two or three grades of strength with strength ID'ed under the brand name.
Bill Welch


New paint option

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Liquitex has released a new medium for their line of acrylic paint, which is intended to make the paints useable in an airbrush.

 

https://liquitex.com/airbrushmedium/?terms=airbrush

 

I’m pretty much a lacquer man, but others on this list swear by acrylic paint.

 

I, on the other hand, swear AT them.

 

Just offering the information.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

Galen Gallimore
 

Bless you, Frank.  I will try on Monday, and let the group know what I find out.

Galen


Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Dick Harley
 

I'm late to this party, but have a few comments.

The original question was are there Pantone numbers for RR paints?
The answer is usually no. The reason is that there are only 1200 or 1400 Pantone colors.

Your computer screen with 24-bit RGB color (8 bits per color) will produce almost 17 million colors (256x256x256 = 16,777,216). That's a lot more than Pantone, but still not all colors.
Similar is true for CMYK printed colors.

There is no way for RGB or CMYK to produce the color Sodium Yellow, which is a near single frequency of visible light (remember sodium vapor street lights?). Same is true for the color of most neon signs and any LED - neither the RGB nor CMYK systems can match them.

So we do the best we can with available materials and move on.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Re: Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

Frank Pearsall
 

Good afternoon:

This might be a real long shot, but there might be another source.

If I remember correctly, the “original” Ye Olde Huff ’N Puff (Dick and Shirley Koontz) of State College, Penn. bought Laconia years ago (earlier than the 1980s). They subsequently sold out to a new owner in Lewisburg, Penn. I understand YOHNP has been sold again to LaBelle Woodworking (Rick Steele) in Cheyenne, WY. They might have some old files. They have an 800 number, 866-246-9967.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Feb 24, 2018, at 1:05 PM, ggallimore@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I'm going to be rebuilding three (all three #s released) Laconia Ralston Purina box cars in HO.  I note from an ad in the 1953 Model Railroader that, "This most colorful of box cars has been scaled from plans and photographs furnished by the Ralston-Purina Co."

I have scoured the internet including the Library of Congress and the St Louis historical society image collections.  I have emailed Walthers and they have no information on the disposition of Laconia's files or this car's prototype.  I even contacted Purina to see if they have a historian who might know (pretty sure I confused the helpful guy on the pet food question line).  I have pored over old photos of random grain elevators and co-ops in the hopes of catching one of these cars spotted there.  No luck.

I have reached the point where, since nobody can tell me otherwise, I am going to forge ahead with a detail upgrade of these cars.  Based on the idea that the oldest source is likely the most accurate, plus the manufacturer's claim to have used plans and photos in making the kit, I decided to take these kits as the closest thing we have to historic record.



Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

Galen Gallimore
 

Hello All,

I'm going to be rebuilding three (all three #s released) Laconia Ralston Purina box cars in HO.  I note from an ad in the 1953 Model Railroader that, "This most colorful of box cars has been scaled from plans and photographs furnished by the Ralston-Purina Co."

I have scoured the internet including the Library of Congress and the St Louis historical society image collections.  I have emailed Walthers and they have no information on the disposition of Laconia's files or this car's prototype.  I even contacted Purina to see if they have a historian who might know (pretty sure I confused the helpful guy on the pet food question line).  I have pored over old photos of random grain elevators and co-ops in the hopes of catching one of these cars spotted there.  No luck.

I have reached the point where, since nobody can tell me otherwise, I am going to forge ahead with a detail upgrade of these cars.  Based on the idea that the oldest source is likely the most accurate, plus the manufacturer's claim to have used plans and photos in making the kit, I decided to take these kits as the closest thing we have to historic record.

The most interesting details, to me, are the ventilators on the roof.  Based on the shape I guessed that they weren't Bohn patent vents, as produced by Westerfield, but rather something more akin to the E Posson design.  A few old photos I found show this design in use, and one set even exists still today (perhaps) on an old reefer behind a fruit market in southern California.  I posted about that in this group back in May of 2016.  Since then I did some digging in the patent office digital files.

I have worked with Bill MacIndoe at Austin Rail Products to provide him as much information I could on these vents.  He graciously created cad drawings from Patent office drawings to create this:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/YHG4W2YNR/posson-patent-refrigerated-rail-car-vents-ho?optionId=64776759&li=ostatus


I have purchased three sets and they are incredible looking details.


I think these vents may be a great help to some modelers looking for this specific part.  Again, unless someone has the car-builders order forms that show these vents purchased and applied to a specific car, it's all just an educated guess that they were correct.  However, I feel like I can upgrade these beautiful cars to have a more realistic, scale appearance and the vents are the most noticeable detail.


This is my "last chance for input" post before I begin working on these cars.  If anyone here has any information about Laconia and what happened to their files (after the Binkley purchase, or beyond) or on the prototypes of these cars (photos would be great!, drawings even better), please let me know.


Thanks,


Galen



Re: NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Pierre Oliver
 

Garth,
Have a little patience, We at Yarmouth Model Works are working on a new and improved etched Morton r/b.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2018-02-24 10:15 AM, Garth Groff or Sally Sanford sarahsan@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Tim,

Thanks much for your information. I bought one of Intermountain's recent NS releases, and am considering how to fix the inaccuracies.
Intermountain chose to apply a rectangular-hole running board on their car, and it is all loopy anyway. I could apply a wood running board, plus change the car number, reweigh date and class, or I could just bite the bullet and find a metal Morton running board and some barge cement.

Of course it would have to be a Morton running board, wouldn't it? Morton running boards are a curse for me, as I used to model the WP, a big user of Morton. I've been after the Kadee people to tool 40 and 50' Morton running boards for years. Though Sam once told me they might consider it, that's a big investment and they have other priorities.

For my period of interest, I will keep the Viking roof. It is a big part of the NS's charm.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 2/23/18 4:35 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


The rebuilds had Nailable Steel Floors - although I don't know whether that was a change.

Also, all of my photos (I have 6 for these cars) appear to show Morton running boards - no good
views of the hand brake step however.

The Viking roofs were not immediately replaced, but a later photo (1970) shows a replacement
diagonal panel roof.

Tim O'Connor


In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff



Re: NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Thanks much for your information. I bought one of Intermountain's recent NS releases, and am considering how to fix the inaccuracies.
Intermountain chose to apply a rectangular-hole running board on their car, and it is all loopy anyway. I could apply a wood running board, plus change the car number, reweigh date and class, or I could just bite the bullet and find a metal Morton running board and some barge cement.

Of course it would have to be a Morton running board, wouldn't it? Morton running boards are a curse for me, as I used to model the WP, a big user of Morton. I've been after the Kadee people to tool 40 and 50' Morton running boards for years. Though Sam once told me they might consider it, that's a big investment and they have other priorities.

For my period of interest, I will keep the Viking roof. It is a big part of the NS's charm.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 2/23/18 4:35 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


The rebuilds had Nailable Steel Floors - although I don't know whether that was a change.

Also, all of my photos (I have 6 for these cars) appear to show Morton running boards - no good
views of the hand brake step however.

The Viking roofs were not immediately replaced, but a later photo (1970) shows a replacement
diagonal panel roof.

Tim O'Connor


In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff


Re: a stronger [decal setting] solution: "Tim O'Solve"

Bill Welch
 

This sounds like a business opportunity Tim. You could call in "Tim O'Solve." Maybe offer two or three grades of strength with strength ID'ed under the brand name.

Bill Welch


Re: a stronger solution

Jerry Michels
 

Tim,  You can use Cellusolve right out of the bottle, but it is not economical.  I'd start with a 50/50 mix and go up from there


Re: a stronger solution

Jerry Michels
 

Jim, I always thought it was acetic acid too.  All of the decal solvents smell like vinegar to me.  When I was in graduate school, I had access to high quality acetic acid, mixed it about 50/50 with distilled water and tested it.  Melted the decals, tried 10/90 and it worked kind of OK, but was really not the correct solution (so to speak).


Re: Bx-12 grab iron question

Steve SANDIFER
 

Photo in the society book shows 2 straights on the right side of the end and one straight mounted on a drop bracker on the left side. 7 rung ladder on the left side.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 10:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Bx-12 grab iron question

 

 

I am building a BX-12 raised roof. Which grab irons would be used on the sides and ends for a car in 1950? Some model cars I have seen have dropped and others straight.

Thank you
Scott McDonald


Bx-12 grab iron question

Scott
 

I am building a BX-12 raised roof. Which grab irons would be used on the sides and ends for a car in 1950? Some model cars I have seen have dropped and others straight.

Thank you
Scott McDonald

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