Date   

Offered: Brass OMI HO Paccar Side dump Car

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-
I have a mint/new, with mint box and foam, Overland Models HO brass Paccar Side Dump Car built by Ajin of Korea. Typical quality one would expect from Ajin with nice underbody detail. Steel body and large air-powered pressure cylinders.
Offered for $195, plus buyer to pay $7 shipping by US mail. Pictures can be viewed by internet searching for "OMI-1317 Side dump Car".

I accept checks and with a small fee, I accept PayPal. Contact me off-list @ for details.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Robert Heninger
 

Tim, 

GN heralds can sure get your goat, can't they?

In 1948, the lettering surrounding the goat was changed to "GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY". It's first application to a freight car, as far as I know, was a series of GN steel boxcars with a NEW date of 2-48. Other cars in the series have a NEW date of 3-48.

This photo of GN 11022 shows the 1948 change:


The confusion arises in part because GN historical pamphlets show this "GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY" herald, and state that the first use was in 1936. And they are correct: the GN first used this herald on paper items (timetables, forms, annual reports, etc.) in 1936. It was also used on the FTs which arrived beginning in May/June 1941. It might have been used on diesel switchers a bit earlier, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure when it was first applied to a steam locomotive tender. It was not used on a freight car until 1948.

As best I can tell, the "See America First - Glacier National Park" herald with the side facing goat was applied (to GN freight cars) from February 1941 to February 1948. Before February 1941, the goat faced forward, and had much more detail on the goat's face, and the mountain he's standing on. 

A book could be (and probably should be) written about the subject, much like the excellent SP/PFE lettering book Dick Harley and Tony Thompson wrote. Maybe when I retire.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 






More Goat

thecitrusbelt@...
 

And the risk of beating a dead goat to death, two prototype photos of our friendly forward facing goat:

 

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=867&Categoryid=45

 

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=932&Categoryid=45

 

And I thank all who posted on this topic as I certainly learned a few things.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ERIE Yellow Diamond

Ray Breyer
 

You can also review original painting diagrams, several of which are on the Fallen Flags site. For example:

LOs 20000-20049. Monogram changed from white to gold 1/17/1944. Back to white 12/30/1946.
XMs 71800-71999. White to gold 1/21/1944 (WWII era drawing, so no date for returning to white).
XMs 84000-84314 and 95000-95999. White to gold 1/26/1944. Gold to white 12/30/1946.
XAs 98200-98699. White to gold 1/17/1944. Gold to white 12/17/1946.

So: January 1944 to December 1946. Yellow diamonds are in a VERY small window of time.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:58:02 AM CST, Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC] wrote:




Hi Bill & Group!

The yellow (or Dulux imitation gold) diamond was addressed in the Vol. 30, No. 2 2016 edition of the ELHS magazine, The DIAMOND.  The actual time that the small (34") yellow diamond was applied to freight cars ranged "from late 1943 to June or July 1946."  This is from the summary paragraph by the author, Dan Biernacki.   This was a five page lead article in that issue.  After the above date the white diamond was enlarged to 72" where possible, otherwise kept at 34" for smaller spaces.  Cars delivered new or repainted during the above period would have had the 34" yellow diamond.  Subsequent repainting would wipe out the yellow.  I don't remember seeing any in the late 1950s or into E-L times.

Regards from wet Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:14:35 AM EST, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?


Bill Welch





Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Tim O'Connor
 


  >> that is just a date range under the side facing "Great Northern Railway"
  >> side facing goat herald, which was not applied to a Great Northern FREIGHT CAR
  >> until 1948.

Huh, wot? Ok have we moved on from "front vs side" to variations of side facing goats?
Because obviously the plywood cars in 1944 had side facing goats w/ "See America First"
emblems.

Tim O'


Re: ERIE Yellow Diamond

Schleigh Mike
 

Hi Bill & Group!

The yellow (or Dulux imitation gold) diamond was addressed in the Vol. 30, No. 2 2016 edition of the ELHS magazine, The DIAMOND.  The actual time that the small (34") yellow diamond was applied to freight cars ranged "from late 1943 to June or July 1946."  This is from the summary paragraph by the author, Dan Biernacki.   This was a five page lead article in that issue.  After the above date the white diamond was enlarged to 72" where possible, otherwise kept at 34" for smaller spaces.  Cars delivered new or repainted during the above period would have had the 34" yellow diamond.  Subsequent repainting would wipe out the yellow.  I don't remember seeing any in the late 1950s or into E-L times.

Regards from wet Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:14:35 AM EST, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?


Bill Welch



ERIE Yellow Diamond

Bill Welch
 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?

Bill Welch



Pickle cars in the PNW

Doug Paasch
 

I’m kind of late to the pickle party, but would like to know a little more about pickle cars in the Pacific Northwest.  Does anyone know if they were ever used by Nalley’s in Tacoma (on NP I suppose), or Farman’s in Enumclaw (on Milwaukee I suppose)?  And if so, when would they have become “extinct” due to using trucks instead of RR cars?  Hope someone may have some thoughts on this.

Thanks!

   Doug Paasch


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Robert Heninger
 

My responses are bolded.


---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :

Clark/Gary/all,

  My reference for the date for the front facing goat is non other than
Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial" (book 1,
page 73).

Jim, that is just a date range under the side facing "Great Northern Railway" side facing goat herald, which was not applied to a Great Northern FREIGHT CAR until 1948. Clearly, as has been documented elsewhere, that logo was first used on GN literature in about 1936. In fact, it is on the back cover of my 1940 GN Annual Report. It was also used on diesel locomotives starting about 1940/1941. The FTs might have been the first to use it, but I'm not sure. That's a whole other can of worms. 

Can you provide photographic evidence of a GN freight car with a side facing goat herald painted between 1936 and 1940? If you can, I will gladly stand corrected.

By the way, as useful as it is, Mr. Thompson's book is not a particularly reference for documenting steam era GN paint schemes, inasmuch as the vast majority of the photos in the three volume set are color photographs. I think the earliest photo in Volume 1 is dated 1957.

Were there some cars painted in the front facing goat after 1936? Probably.  

No, certainly. I have photographs of newly painted GN boxcars with 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, and 1940 dates (over a dozen photos) in my collection. Every single one, across multiple car series, painted both by the GN, or one of three different commercial car builders, has a front facing goat herald. The latest has a November 1940 date. Furthermore, in my last post on this subject, I suggested the possibility of the 52000-52999 cars as the first series to use this herald. However, on page 39 of my copy of the 1940 GN Annual Report, is a photo of a string of cars from this series, the highest numbered being 52783. All of them have the front facing goat herald. It seems unlikely that Pullman would paint the last 200 cars differently from the first 800. Therefore, the first documented evidence I have of the use of the side facing goat herald, on a GN freight car, is GN boxcar 48743, dated February 1941. If others have photographic evidence otherwise, I'd love to see it.

Were there very many of them surviving in 1950-51 (the
O.P.'s date of interest)?  I submit "not many" as my answer.

I'll agree with you there. 

  Can he use some of them on his layout?  Of course he can.  The
questions are "how many?" ... and also "what service was the car in?"
and "what type of car?".  And, of course, the proverbial "it's my RR
and this is what I want to be seeing".  I did not answer "none".

  There is no way, at least that I know of, to "know for sure" what
percentage of cars would still have the front facing goat.  At the
same time - as the percentage goes up the "feel" of the early 50's
is compromised ... more weathering on those cars would
certainly help.
                    - Jim B.

Again, complete agreement. I have a couple photos showing boxcars with front facing goats taken in 1949, and 1952. The white part of the herald has almost completely worn off the side of the car. Only the black background is visible.

Well, I've sufficiently flagellated this dead horse. I've annoyed the list enough for one day.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

 

Tim,

The 646 Klasing wheel that TLT did dates from 1949 to the end of production of the malleable wheel and
the gear changed from the D-959 to the 1050 in '52 and to the 1150 in circa '54, and that would be the gear on
cars built in the late '50's. These gears are very different visually. If memory serves, Moloco does the 1150.

Dan Smith


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

Tim O'Connor
 

Dan

Actually, Klasings of exactly the same style as the TLT were being installed
on brand new cars, Missouri Pacific and Northern Pacific box cars, in 1959 and
1960, respectively.

I don't really care about the gear boxes. The wheels are 10x more interesting.

Tim O'Connor


Of what Tim? If you mean hand brake wheels, there are at least 6 versions of the 646 wheel that I know of that would be installed on the 650 / 950 series of gears. The TLT wheel dates from the late '40's and the RCW wheel is from the late '30's. I have not received my RCW sets yet but I am pretty sure that gear is a D-959.

Dan Smith


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

 

Tom Madden wrote:
The particular Klasing wheel that RCW offers is the only one with spokes heavy enough to print

Tom and Frank also, there is an earlier Klasing 646 wheel with a solid center hub. Contact me is you want
more info.

Dan Smith


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Also, Klasing had at least two distinctive styles

Of what Tim? If you mean hand brake wheels, there are at least 6 versions of the 646 wheel that I know of that would be installed on the 650 / 950 series of gears. The TLT wheel dates from the late '40's and the RCW wheel is from the late '30's. I have not received my RCW sets yet but I am pretty sure that gear is a D-959.

Dan Smith


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

Tom Madden
 

The particular Klasing wheel that RCW offers is the only one with spokes heavy enough to print. The spokes on the others are too fine. It was designed by Frank's son, Patrick.


Tom Madden


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Jim Betz
 

Clark/Gary/all,

  My reference for the date for the front facing goat is non other than
Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial" (book 1, page 73).
Were there some cars painted in the front facing goat after 1936?
Probably.  Were there very many of them surviving in 1950-51 (the
O.P.'s date of interest)?  I submit "not many" as my answer.
  Can he use some of them on his layout?  Of course he can.  The
questions are "how many?" ... and also "what service was the car in?"
and "what type of car?".  And, of course, the proverbial "it's my RR
and this is what I want to be seeing".  I did not answer "none".

  There is no way, at least that I know of, to "know for sure" what
percentage of cars would still have the front facing goat.  At the
same time - as the percentage goes up the "feel" of the early 50's
is compromised ... more weathering on those cars would
certainly help.
                    - Jim B.


Brake Beams

bill woelfel
 

I am working on a Sunshine ATSF  flat class FT-J and need to install the K brakes. The instructions are unclear as to the brake beams  position..are they on the bottom of the double centersill or in slots cut into the sills? There are no slots in the factory castings.  i've got plenty of online info on the brake rigging but no clue what to do here.. Thanks, Bill Woelfel,, Homewood, Il


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

Tim O'Connor
 


Wonderful news! If I hadn't bought 16 of the TLT sets in January I would
have ordered some of these. I look forward to more styles. This is a very
promising start!

Also, Klasing had at least two distinctive styles, and many other vendors had
several styles. There are a LOT of possibilities.

Tim O'Connor



This week I received my order of the Resin Car Works Klasing hand brake models.  If anyone is doubting the future of 3-D printed detail parts, this item will change your mind.  The detail and section size are incredible.  They are very comparable to the set that True-Line Trains has produced by other processes.  (I am still wondering if they each model the same prototype.)

I look for more detailed parts coming via this process.  Many more useful things should be  possible if someone takes the time to define the geometry.

Regards from springlike Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh


Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

Schleigh Mike
 

This week I received my order of the Resin Car Works Klasing hand brake models.  If anyone is doubting the future of 3-D printed detail parts, this item will change your mind.  The detail and section size are incredible.  They are very comparable to the set that True-Line Trains has produced by other processes.  (I am still wondering if they each model the same prototype.)

I look for more detailed parts coming via this process.  Many more useful things should be  possible if someone takes the time to define the geometry.

Regards from springlike Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh


Side facing vs. front facing GN Goat heralds was: Re: Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

In Essential Freight Cars 2, Ted Culotta states the 52000-52999 series cars were first delivered with the side facing goat, but I have the same picture of 52075 that you do, and it clearly has a front facing goat. I don't have any other photos of 52000-52999 that aren't repaints, so I don't know if the transition occurred in this series or not. Perhaps Ted has other photos from this series.

I do have a photo of GN 48743 (series 48500-48749), which is an ACF builder's photo, car NEW 2-41, which has a side facing goat. I'm not sure when the first cars from this ACF built series were delivered, perhaps very late 1940/early 1941. Given your information about GN 3380, which would have been repainted by the GN, and the photo of 48743, the best I can do at this time is narrow down the transition from front facing to side facing goats (for freight cars only!) to between November 1940 and February 1941.

When modeling GN boxcars, it is best to work from photos. The GN wasn't always consistent in the application of their lettering. And I'm not sure when the GN first applied side facing goats to steam locomotive tenders or diesel locomotives.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

I have an image of GN 3880, a freshly painted truss rod box car, with the
front facing goat herald, with an 11-1940 date stencil.

I also have an image of GN 52075, one of the modern double sheathed box cars,
and it also has a front facing goat herald with a 1940 built date (can't make
out the month). Also, a 9-1940 photo of freshly built GN 49163.

The latest image I have of a front facing goat is GN 31248, a single sheathed
box car, from 1955.

Were the plywood side box cars the first new cars to be built with the side
facing goat?

Tim O'Connor



Jim,

Maybe Staffan Ehnbom will chime in here, but I'm certain that the first use of the side facing goat herald (on freight cars, at least) is 1940. The interesting thing is that the GN started using a side facing goat herald on brochures and other literature around 1936, but that was years before they used it on freight cars. The first three orders of 45000-52999 series boxcars all received front facing goats, and were built in 1937 and 1939.

FWIW, I have pictures of very weathered front facing goats on GN boxcars into the early 1950s.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

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