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USRA was Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

brianleppert@att.net
 

Notice this tank car sits on a USRA designed underframe.  Could that tank also match USRA drawings?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Salt Tank Cars

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I’m not sure if you’re trying to say that these are have steel tanks. If you are then I believe that you are incorrect.  If you examine the photograph very carefully, it is clear that the tanks are wood.  Thus, they are (nearly) identical to the vinegar tank cars and that makes a lot of sense.  I also note that they appear to be be style with 2 tanks per car.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 9, 2018, at 10:31 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

This 1926 builder's photo is from the Indiana Historical Society website:
I imagine these cars carried various salt compounds. To my eye they look a bit like steel versions of vinegar tank cars with wooden tanks.
What else is known about such cars?
Bob Chaparro


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Charlie Vlk
 

Tom-

I agree with you….the shadow of the brake wheel is almost parallel to the axis of the car and the shadow of the “too tall brake staff” should be visible aft of the brake wheel on the coal.  It is not, suggesting that the rod is actually stuck in the coal load above the CC&StL stencil.

Charlie Vlk

 

One other possibility is that what appears to be the upper portion of the rod is actually a rod embedded in the pile of coal against and inside the gondola end and the angle of the photo made it appear as an extension of the brake shaft. It seemed strange to me that this extension is above the nut and a different diameter than the shaft. .

 

Tom Hayden


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Benjamin Hom
 


As for car identification, the car number is illegible but the details mostly match CCC&StL 66900-67999, Lot 258-G built 1910 by AC&F.  The major difference is the car in the photo had heap shields, which the clearance diagram and builder's photo of cars in the same lot built for Michigan Central lack.


Ben Hom


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Richard Townsend
 

That was my thought, too.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: jack.f.mullen@... [STMFC] To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Mar 9, 2018 9:05 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

 
OK, it's my turn to be the skeptic. I don't believe this is what it looks like.

The Safety Appliance act specifically requires:
     (v) Brake shaft shall be arranged with a square fit at its upper end to secure
  the hand-brake wheel; said square fit shall be not less than seven-eighths
  of an inch square. Square-fit taper, nominally 2 in 12 inches. (See plate A.)
So the hypothesized sliding brake wheel would be a safety appliance defect.

How do you secure a sliding brake wheel to a ROUND shaft anyway? 

What's the use of dropping the wheel, if the shaft still projects to it's original height.?  

Drop  wheels as commonly used on flats have the wheel secured to the drop shaft, in compliance with the Act, and a square shaft that slides through the lower mechanisim .

If you zoom in very closely, I think you can see that the nut securing the wheel is in front of the supposed staff extension, which seems to be offset very slightly to the right.

Occam's Razor sez this is a broom handle or some such, perhaps used as a brake club, which was left sticking up from the coal, next to the brakewheel, and the photo happened to catch it at the right angle to create a nice illusion.  

Jack Mullen






Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

hayden_tom@...
 

One other possibility is that what appears to be the upper portion of the rod is actually a rod embedded in the pile of coal against and inside the gondola end and the angle of the photo made it appear as an extension of the brake shaft. It seemed strange to me that this extension is above the nut and a different diameter than the shaft. .


Tom Hayden


DSS&A Box Car 17065

frograbbit602
 

I have completed an upgrade of a Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic Box Car, DSS&A 17065, purchased from the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society that was painted and lettered by Bev-Bel.  The upgrade includes the Resin Car Works Klasing brake and home cast resin doors.   I have posted photos and writeup on my blog I started to share photos and writeup on Freight Cars and modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following:


Lester Breuer



Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/9/2018 9:04 AM, jack.f.mullen@... [STMFC] wrote:
Occam's Razor sez this is a broom handle or some such, perhaps used as a brake club, which was left sticking up from the coal, next to the brakewheel, and the photo happened to catch it at the right angle to create a nice illusion.  

I like this.  It also appears that the height of the coal is equal to that handle but I doubt this was ever done.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: NYS&W 400 series PS1 Boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 


On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:01 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I have a shot of SOO 2154, an ex-LNE PS-1 acquired in 1960. The car was
part of series 1700-2238 - a total of 298 cars in the 1963 ORER - acquired
second hand. My notes say the car is from USRE, but there is a "builder"
stencil I don't recognize - arched lettering but not PS nor ACF. Maybe it's
an early USRE stencil before they chose the "48 states" logo.

I do not know whether the entire series were PS-1 box cars, but all of them
were listed as 3885 cuft and 10'6" IH. The series did not exist in 1959, so
the whole series is definitely second hand box cars. Most of the cars were
still in the Soo roster in 1972 BTW. :-)

Tim,
These PS-1s bought 2nd hand by Soo Line were the original LNE 8751-9050, 300 cars built 3-5/56 in Pullman-Standard lot 8287. Soo Line purchased the cars in late 1959 to early 1960 after USRE refurbished them. The total series became Soo Line 1700-2298, even numbers only. The upper-arched part of badge is UNITED STATES RAILWAY EQUIP’T CO. along with horizontal stencils BLUE ISLAND, ILL. below the arched stencils.

A photo of Soo Line 2240 shows this badge and reweigh stencils NY 2-60. 

Relating this to the original question about the other 8 cars that LNE obtained 2nd hand from NYS&W in 1956-1957, it’s possible the LNE 9051-9058 PS-1 box cars also went to USRE along with 8751-9050. However, I’ve not been able to trace where they went after 1/60.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Jack Mullen
 

OK, it's my turn to be the skeptic. I don't believe this is what it looks like.

The Safety Appliance act specifically requires:
     (v) Brake shaft shall be arranged with a square fit at its upper end to secure
  the hand-brake wheel; said square fit shall be not less than seven-eighths
  of an inch square. Square-fit taper, nominally 2 in 12 inches. (See plate A.)
So the hypothesized sliding brake wheel would be a safety appliance defect.

How do you secure a sliding brake wheel to a ROUND shaft anyway? 

What's the use of dropping the wheel, if the shaft still projects to it's original height.?  

Drop  wheels as commonly used on flats have the wheel secured to the drop shaft, in compliance with the Act, and a square shaft that slides through the lower mechanisim .

If you zoom in very closely, I think you can see that the nut securing the wheel is in front of the supposed staff extension, which seems to be offset very slightly to the right.

Occam's Razor sez this is a broom handle or some such, perhaps used as a brake club, which was left sticking up from the coal, next to the brakewheel, and the photo happened to catch it at the right angle to create a nice illusion.  

Jack Mullen






Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Dennis Storzek
 

And the wheel doesn't slide, either. Brake wheels have a tapered square socket that fits on a tapered square forged on the end of the shaft, with a short round threaded projection beyond to hold the nut. The drop wheels used on flatcars are the same, except the whole brake staff is square, and slides through the chain drum casting at the bottom.

This rig? looks dangerous as all get-out; how would you like to be using that hand brake and fall into it? My best guess is it's a cobble job repair where a bolt was welded to the top of a broken staff... too bad the guy couldn't find his hacksaw. Definitely a one-of.

Dennis Storzek


Salt Tank Cars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This 1926 builder's photo is from the Indiana Historical Society website:

 

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16797coll21/id/94/rec/616

 

I imagine these cars carried various salt compounds. To my eye they look a bit like steel versions of vinegar tank cars with wooden tanks.

 

What else is known about such cars?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 

P.S.: Someone else first pointed out the Indiana Historical Society website so many thanks to that person.


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Charlie Vlk
 

Ben
So another possible explanation is since it is a low side car they thought it might be loaded with overhanging lading that would foul a fixed brake wheel staff???
Charlie Vlk


On Mar 9, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"I couldn’t look at the photo while typing my previous reply.
Since it is a steel gon it wouldn’t have removable sides to make it into a flat but it must have removable or drop end, accounting for the folding brake staff."

You might want to look at the photo again - that is definitely a fixed end.
Dering Coal Company :: Martin Photo Shop






Ben Hom


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Bruce Smith
 

Charlie,

That end looks pretty fixed to me ;)  Note that the retaining valve is attached to the end next to the brake staff as well as the riveted end caps and end to side seams. In addition, the photo also has a weird escher-like quality with the brake gears seemingly higher than the end sill.  And then I realized that there is a brake platform on the end of this car! And that means that I think that it is highly unlikely that the brakes shaft folds down

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 9, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Charlie cvlk@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Klaus
I couldn’t look at the photo while typing my previous reply.
Since it is a steel gon it wouldn’t have removable sides to make it into a flat but it must have removable or drop end, accounting for the folding brake staff
Charlie Vlk


On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:35 AM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
Note how the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long – it extends maybe a foot or more above the brake wheel.
 
Had anyone ever modeled that? I wonder how long it would take before anyone in your operating crew noticed!?!
 
 
Claus Schlund
 





Re: [Non-DoD Source] the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Claus;

Nice photo! Everything about that gon is odd: the flange at the bottom of the sides; the mixed single and double rivet row battens; the bottom side patch panels inside the flange vertical; the arched end; the sliding brake wheel, top support and staff rotator. That is one oddball gon, and I've seen a LOT of them.

Thanks for sharing that bad boy!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:36 AM
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [STMFC] the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long



Hi List Members,

Note how the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long – it extends maybe a foot or more above the brake wheel.

Had anyone ever modeled that? I wonder how long it would take before anyone in your operating crew noticed!?!

Blockedhttp://images.indianahistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/P0129/id/2252

Claus Schlund


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Benjamin Hom
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"I couldn’t look at the photo while typing my previous reply.
Since it is a steel gon it wouldn’t have removable sides to make it into a flat but it must have removable or drop end, accounting for the folding brake staff."

You might want to look at the photo again - that is definitely a fixed end.
Dering Coal Company :: Martin Photo Shop






Ben Hom


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Charlie Vlk
 

Klaus
I couldn’t look at the photo while typing my previous reply.
Since it is a steel gon it wouldn’t have removable sides to make it into a flat but it must have removable or drop end, accounting for the folding brake staff
Charlie Vlk


On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:35 AM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,
 
Note how the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long – it extends maybe a foot or more above the brake wheel.
 
Had anyone ever modeled that? I wonder how long it would take before anyone in your operating crew noticed!?!
 
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Charlie Vlk
 

Klaus
The wheel can slide up and down the staff which in turn can be folded to rest on the end beam.  You can see the articulated joint at the base.
I guess that the gondola is convertible for use as a flat which is the normal application for this device
Charlie Vlk


On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:35 AM, 'Claus Schlund' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi List Members,
 
Note how the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long – it extends maybe a foot or more above the brake 
 
Had anyone ever modeled that? I wonder how long it would take before anyone in your operating crew noticed!?!
 
 
Claus Schlund
 


the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Note how the brake wheel staff on this CCC&StL gon is too long – it extends maybe a foot or more above the brake wheel.
 
Had anyone ever modeled that? I wonder how long it would take before anyone in your operating crew noticed!?!
 
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Ralston-Purina Ventilated Box Car (Reefer)

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob,

Neat photo. Thanks much.

The information with the photo suggests the cars are carrying Budweiser beer. Models of these cars (such as Train Miniature's offering) have always claimed they were connected with the Purina Company and were sold as "Purina refrigerators", even though the prototypes are clearly marked for the Busch-owned Manufacturers Railway. I'm wondering if the checkerboard pattern wasn't just camouflage to protect cargoes of beer from being stolen.

These are actually RB cars, that is "bunkerless" refrigerators. They have no internal bunkers for ice, thus no need for ice hatches.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/8/18 11:31 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

This topic has aged, but look what I found on the Indiana State Historical Society under digital images.

Although these reefers do not have the "ventilators" you want to model.

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/P0129/id/2094/rec/212




Bob Witt


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